Advice needed please - Growling 5mth golden retriever puppy?

Dobiegirl

Well-Known Member
Joined
2 February 2011
Messages
6,900
Location
Wildest Somerset
Visit site
The thing is we dont know why that dog is growling which only happens when the op raises her voice, the dog may actually be fearful of this and then to compound it by correcting it will only make matters worse. Im not a fluffy bunny if one of my dogs is taking the pee it is quickly corrected, this dosnt kill the dog or make it fearful of me but my dogs are very confident and can take their punishment like a man/dog.

Until any of us can see this dog in action with the Op its pure speculation, I hope the OP finds a good behaviourist and can nip this in the bud.
 

planete

Well-Known Member
Joined
5 May 2010
Messages
3,223
Location
New Forest
Visit site
"If pup jumps up, I growl". I am really happy to read this! I have never dared tell anybody I growl to correct dogs, especially when they are not yet trained and don't 'speak english', as most people around here would think I must be a cavewoman. When the large one year old male lurcher who came to me as a foster yesterday tried to nick my lunch he got growled at and promptly lay down and averted his eyes from my food.
 

stormox

Well-Known Member
Joined
4 May 2012
Messages
3,266
Location
midlands
Visit site
I have heard that golden retrievers can have the 'rage syndrome' that golden cocker spaniels can have. I looked into it a bit when I witnessed an incident that happened to a friend. she had a perfectly well behaved 2 yr old dark golden retriever. We were at an obedience show, she had completed her round, she put the dog in the back of her car he went to come out, she pushed him back, saying no, wait (commands he understood) and all of a sudden, with no warning growl, the dog sprang at her and bit her arm quite severely.
 

Teaselmeg

Well-Known Member
Joined
13 March 2009
Messages
460
Visit site
Since chewing up £40 worth of cabling to some expensive video equipment, the pup here has been duly "corrected". He doesn't chew cabling any more. In fact, he is a bit nervous of going anywhere near it! (Mind you, he still chews everything else!). Cruelty? Well, the official definition of that is "causing unnecessary suffering". If "correcting" a pup that chews dangerous electric cable (or growls at me!) is cruel, I am guilty as charged. But I guarantee my pup will not only be happier than most other people's but it will do what it is told. .

What your pup has learned is that area is now a scary place, not that chewing the cable is wrong.

Positive training methods are not permissive, my dogs do not walk all over me, they know their boundaries. They trust me, they do not behave because they are fearful of me. If you reward what you want, be it with treats/play or praise, the dog is more likely to repeat that behaviour and understand what you are asking it to do.

If my puppy was found chewing a cable, I would slap myself for being stupid and leaving my puppy near the cable and make sure from then on that either the puppy was kept away from the cable and given something safe to chew on or left in a crate if I could not supervise him.

OP I hope you have found someone to give you some help.
 

Echo24

Well-Known Member
Joined
12 August 2006
Messages
1,330
Location
Kent
Visit site
Actually, some golden retrievers can be growly I'm afraid. And the age he is, hormones are kicking in and he is being challenging. Last thing you want to do is give in to the growling as this is how the behaviour escalates. I presume the growling is with ears back, teeth baring, low body posture and not the growling golden retrievers do when they prance around with a toy in their mouth. Without seeing exactly what he does I would suggest getting a behaviourist as well as I would hate to advise you without seeing the behaviour myself.

A friend is a very experienced dog behaviourist and the worst bite she has ever received was from a golden retriever as they can have a nasty side to them if not nipped in the bud.
 

EAST KENT

Well-Known Member
Joined
17 June 2010
Messages
2,735
Visit site
Many years ago now we boarded a Goldie bitch ,she was absolutely fine ..until one needed to remove empty food bowls..or remove slip leads after being out.As one does I found out she stayed just the once in virtually every local boarding kennel!
 

Zebe

Well-Known Member
Joined
19 January 2014
Messages
58
Location
Ireland
Visit site
Thanks for all the comments & sorry i have been so absent but 5 mins after posting my last post my power went due to a hurricane!! This crazy weather hit us hard, back to candles bottled water and woodburning stove! Only just got my phone network & internet back! So not too much progress on the dog front to report but have spoken to a few members of APBC, discussed my problems, they were very helpful but unfortunately not one anywhere near where i live. The best i have found is a member of Association of Pet Dog Trainers and uses the method of Behavioural Science/Dog Training!? Not sure what this means any ideas anyone?

After totally freaking out doing my research on "rage syndrome" and the only treatment being euthanasia of your beautiful beloved animal i went cold with the fear of it. When speaking to the members of APBC explaining my fears, I was told not to get hung up on this because it is Rare and one was not convinced it was proven enough to exist. I can't focus on this, i don't believe my lad has this issue. I have to think positive :)

Thank you all for taking time to comment, I haven't read all your posts properly so will re read.
 

Alec Swan

Well-Known Member
Joined
20 October 2009
Messages
21,080
Location
Norfolk.
Visit site
....... When speaking to the members of APBC explaining my fears, I was told not to get hung up on this because it is Rare and one was not convinced it was proven enough to exist. I can't focus on this, i don't believe my lad has this issue. I have to think positive :)

......

The condition where a dog loses control, and becomes dangerous, and reaches the stage of "Rage", and amongst Cockers, are, AS YOU'VE BEEN ADVISED, indeed rare. It is rarer still amongst GRs, trust me. The stories with which others will regale you, of the horrors, are truly anecdotal, and irrelevant.

Your puppy's problems are of your making, and if you'll do as others have suggested, and employ someone with experience, someone who will offer you guidance, then you and your dog will be just fine.

At the risk of repetition, the problem is of your making, not your puppy's. Seek practical advice, or find a home for your dog before you end up euthanising a dog for no valid reason.

Am I being harsh? That's for you to decide.

Alec.
 

Zebe

Well-Known Member
Joined
19 January 2014
Messages
58
Location
Ireland
Visit site
No Alec, i agree. The behaviorist i mentioned is calling over to me & my training will begin. I hold my hands up, i have very likely caused a problem that i am determined to correct.

Zebe

The condition where a dog loses control, and becomes dangerous, and reaches the stage of "Rage", and amongst Cockers, are, AS YOU'VE BEEN ADVISED, indeed rare. It is rarer still amongst GRs, trust me. The stories with which others will regale you, of the horrors, are truly anecdotal, and irrelevant.

Your puppy's problems are of your making, and if you'll do as others have suggested, and employ someone with experience, someone who will offer you guidance, then you and your dog will be just fine.

At the risk of repetition, the problem is of your making, not your puppy's. Seek practical advice, or find a home for your dog before you end up euthanising a dog for no valid reason.

Am I being harsh? That's for you to decide.

Alec.
 

Zebe

Well-Known Member
Joined
19 January 2014
Messages
58
Location
Ireland
Visit site
Hi, just for anyone interested in an update:
with lots of one to one training, walks and time i feel like i now feel confident to report that we have turned a corner. The distraction of my other dogs along with hormones he needed some quality time with me so we could work together and build a relationship. No more growls at all! He'll even roll on his back in submission which he wasn't doing before. I am delighted that we have worked through our issue, the trainer said he has no badness in him, he was just confused and that was charged up with hormones! Thanks for all support on this thread
 

Dobiegirl

Well-Known Member
Joined
2 February 2011
Messages
6,900
Location
Wildest Somerset
Visit site
So glad you are getting the results and you contacted a trainer, you needed someone on the ground to help you and give you the confidence to implement their advice, onwards and upwards now.
 

Alec Swan

Well-Known Member
Joined
20 October 2009
Messages
21,080
Location
Norfolk.
Visit site
Very well done. When we're on the inside of a situation, then seeing the problems, in a clear manner, is never easy. You've done really well, and I'm impressed!

Another point for you; It's strange what a bit of confidence does for us, isn't it?! :wink3:

Alec.
 

Dry Rot

Well-Known Member
Joined
31 May 2010
Messages
5,847
Location
Scotland
Visit site
I'm glad it has all worked out for you.

My GSD pup started to growl at the feed bowl to warn off the 6yo female. He got a clip around the ear from me! They will now share a bowl with no grumbling. Reading back through the posts, I see one prophet of doom predicted severe psychological damage to the pup because he was punished for chewing electrical cable. Strangely, he continues to be a well balanced pup, doesn't chew any cables (at all!), and I can leave him alone in the room with lots of cables without putting him in a cage while I go into the kitchen to make a cup of tea.

I was looking for a suitable weapon to administer a quick and sharp reminder and picked up a riding crop in the tack room. Do all these kind and caring horse owners really use such things on an animal as sensitive as a horse? I found that all too severe for what I want which might be as harsh as a tap on the nose as a reminder.

Isn't it shocking what us older trainers do to dogs? The strange thing is, I can control my dogs while I notice others can't. I can safely leave a plate of steak and chips on the floor with the 6yo GSD in the same room while I go through to make tea knowing it will still be there when I get back. I don't expect that from the pup YET as he is only five months old, but it will come.

When H M The Queen asked her trainer, George Meldrun, how he got her dogs to do some particular piece of work, he replied, "It's all done with cruelty, ma'am". Many a true word spoken in jest and not a canine behaviourist in sight.
 

Dobiegirl

Well-Known Member
Joined
2 February 2011
Messages
6,900
Location
Wildest Somerset
Visit site
People are reluctant to correct their dogs these days, they would sooner give them up to rescue or have them pts which is strange but true. Im appalled at how many dogs these days are dog aggressive and have to be the only dog when they are rehomed, early socialisation is vital but even if not most dogs can be turned around with the correct handling. Im not saying beat 7 tons of poo out of them but dogs need to know who is boss, my dogs are dogs not fur babies. Chastising a dog who is displaying fearful reactions is never going to help that dog but just makes it more fearful so a more sympathetic approach is needed.
 

Dry Rot

Well-Known Member
Joined
31 May 2010
Messages
5,847
Location
Scotland
Visit site
People are reluctant to correct their dogs these days, they would sooner give them up to rescue or have them pts which is strange but true. Im appalled at how many dogs these days are dog aggressive and have to be the only dog when they are rehomed, early socialisation is vital but even if not most dogs can be turned around with the correct handling. Im not saying beat 7 tons of poo out of them but dogs need to know who is boss, my dogs are dogs not fur babies. Chastising a dog who is displaying fearful reactions is never going to help that dog but just makes it more fearful so a more sympathetic approach is needed.

The voice of reason!

I have been around dogs since my early teens, starting with hunt kennels, then onto working gundogs, seldom keeping a kennel of fewer than 20 of my own dogs in my own kennels. When I published a video including clips of my dropping 30+ dogs all at the same time and tiny puppies working like much older dogs, it caused a bit of a sensation.

A dog will tell you when it has got the message about what these days they like to call "a correction", because it will yelp! As Dobiegirl says, they don't need to be chastised once respect has been established -- and that is respect on both sides, let me hasten to add. I tend to keep a low profile on here because dog training is subject to a phenomenon known as "reverse proportionality". The less the experience, the more the adviser will know!

This is a clip from the video showing, I think, 18 dogs dropped. There's another 15 or so out of frame. As you can see, they are all terrified and cowed!:

sit2.jpg
 

Zebe

Well-Known Member
Joined
19 January 2014
Messages
58
Location
Ireland
Visit site
clodagh, fides, dobiegirl, alec & dry rot thank you all for you comments and help, i really hope that this thread can go on to help someone else in a similar situation :)
 
Top