Advice needed please - potential new horse. (Warning - LONG!!)

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Sologirl

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After the disaster of my last horse I bit the bullet and started looking again.

Found a 15 year old Sec D mare for sale - been a broodmare for a good few years but done all riding activities and most importantly a safe hack alone/company. Tried horse a few times at sellers yard, all seemed fine, mare was lovely and just what I was looking for.

As I was extremely jittery about buying again I asked for a 4 week trial, owner agreed. Mare was delivered to my yard, contracts signed, deposit paid etc.

I wanted to get her vetted at the start of the trial so that if it worked out, I wouldn't then be left heartbroken if she failed at the end. I couldn't get her vetted before she left as her feet needed a good trim before the vetting could take place and seller was having difficulties getting hold of her farrier. So she was trimmed by farrier at my yard and vetting took place 5 days later.

Seller had already warned me that she was unlikely to pass the HL flexion test, and she did fail (2/5 bilaterally). But vet also flagged up a forelimb lameness on the right when lunged in a tight circle and that the results of the vetting indicated that if I ever wanted to do anything more than happy hacking then she might not be up to it. Vet obviously couldn't tell from that what the cause of the lameness was – although she’s been a little footy ever since her trim –I believe it’s a while since her feet were done.


So now I have just under 3 weeks left on the trial before I say yes or no. Mare is just a little superstar, safe and sensible, friendly, comes to call in the field, just an allround darling and I already feel my confidence returning. BUT...the vetting has me a little rattled. I let the seller know the outcome and she said that the mare has no history of lameness whilst she’s been with her and sees no reason why she shouldn’t be capable of doing a little bit of everything. Seller has been very accommodating allowing me to have the trial and has never put pressure on me to make a decision either way.


What do I do?? She could just be feeling her feet right now post-trim (she did respond to the hoof testers) and the forelimb lameness could all go away in a few days. But if it’s an indication of something more sinister...and technically, the findings are that she has one good leg lol!


Trouble is I’m torn between what I am looking for now and what I might (or might not!) want in the future. At the mo I’m just a hacker, trying to regain my confidence and have fun with a good match of horse. She’s perfect for this, been there and done it and is pretty much unflappable. BUT – I’d hate to become more confident, want to do more with her and find she can’t do it! She's worth her weight in gold but sadly I don't have infinite funds if she does end up with problems.


Should I send her back and keep looking? Wait til the end of the trial and see how she is? Ask if I can have her on loan? (not likely to be agreed to!) Ask for an extension of the trial? I’ll need to pay the remaining balance at the end if I want to keep her – should this be negotiated given the results of the vetting??


God if you got to the end of this you deserve a medal never mind cake. Thanks so much – I’m in a battle between my heart and my head!!
 
If she has been footy since her trim then the farrier took too much off.

she would need more than 5 days to get over that. At 15 i don't know any horse taht would completely pass a getting and as long as she is up for it i would let horse decide.

my 18 yr lami prone ir appy should not be here is now hack out and working fab round the feilds bf, working well in the school and has been jumping little logs out hacking but put him through a vetting and he would fail, esp on a tight circle on hard ground on his right fore due to arthritis.

are you sure she really needed a trim and it wasn't just a case of they look bad but are actually right for her?
 
Slightlyconfused said:
If she has been footy since her trim then the farrier took too much off.
are you sure she really needed a trim and it wasn't just a case of they look bad but are actually right for her?
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Yeah her feet were cracked and overgrown, definitely needed a trim but I'm suspicious the farrier took too much off, they are looking pretty short now.
 
If your really keen on her get the vet back in another week or so to if she's just footy from the foot trim.
But for me there are plenty of sound good horses out there you obviously paid your vet for his opinion for a reason. My friend is going through a similar problem pony for daughter failed the vet with slight lameness in front seller let her have 2 week trial all seemed ok, 8 weeks down the line kiddie has ridden pony 4/5 times and he's off work for long forseable future already have a vet bill touching £1000 and it's not covered by insurance due to failed vetting!! Very heartbreaking for all involved!
 
Can you get the vet to look again at the end of the trial?
Would be a shame if she is already building your confidence back up, and gets sent back due to a dodgy trim. X
 
Deep breath! Annndddddd relax! You have a lot of questions but still have three weeks of trial to get them answered.

Firstly consider lameness.....is it hoof or is it leg? Only a vet can really give you a definite answer,but I'd be willing to give the hooves a week to settle down. If it's a real concern then get the vet to look more closely later in the trial! I would say most horses are somewhat lame when lunged in a tight circle....I couldn't run in a circle without looking 'unsound'!

Secondly... There are two options
1. Safe sensible hack (that may be able to do a basic dressage test and some small jumps) good for confidence
2. More sporty model, can go higher but will require the rider to be more 'helpful' over certain aspects.
So you can just stick with model one, look for model two, or have model one then once you feel confident you can sell and buy model two.

Personally if all well at the end of the trial I'd go for model one......it will increase confidence, help you get back to doing small bits and pieces.....and often these 'happy hackers' can do a lot more than people think!
 
Don't be too harsh on the farrier - sounds like he did the best job he could if feet were cracked and overgrown! To stop cracks spreading he would have to cut back quite a bit, better to do the job properly than not take enough away to stop the splits and then have the problem go on.

She sounds a lovely mare - perhaps be cheeky and ask for some money off, but if she is sane and sensible and has settled in after a short time, then that ticks enough boxes for me. She might well do the job in the future, and as you say, you might not want to do more anyway. Vets are always cautious and point out the worst case scenario - they have to.
 
Thanks everyone - I'm swaying towards getting vet back at the end of trial, she's just a super super girl and I love her to bits already. Seller has offered to buy her back in the future if it turns out that she can't do the job I want - but I think I'd be tempted to keep her by this point for her to be a field ornament lol.
 
If you are not going to buy her, then send her back now, however if she meets your needs now buy her, at the price you agreed before the trial. I too would not have a horse that age vetted, as would not expect it to pass flextion tests. We can all dream of doing more, but need a horse for what we can do now :)
 
Given that she failed the vetting, would she be insurable? As you say, you do not have infinite funds, and horses are awfully good at self-harming. Could you manage without vet cover if need be?

Regarding your confidence, do you see yourself needing a different horse within one year or within five years time? She is fifteen: a sixteen year old proven happy hacker will sell faster than one that is twenty. So as a temporary confidence giver, this could work, but the older she gets the harder she will be to rehome. Could you afford to retire her or to keep her as a companion if you did later get another horse?

As to the lameness, could you give her another two weeks and have her vetted again to determine if it is an ongoing issue and not just down to her recent trim? May as well have the full trial to be more sure, as you say she is lovely. This gives you time to get to know her better overall too.

I don't think you can expect the seller to reduce the price.
 
Sologirl said:
Yeah her feet were cracked and overgrown, definitely needed a trim but I'm suspicious the farrier took too much off, they are looking pretty short now.
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that's probably it. My girls are bf and haven't had a trim since shoes.came off over a year ago and one is retired.farrier just looks at them every six weeks when he comes to do.tb and appy and then.just leave's them. Even if they are un even. If they are sound he doesn't touch them as making them look pretty will make them lame, he words.

let her feet grow out a little and settle and then see if the fore limb lameness goes away.
at 15 there is going to be some arthritic changes anyway but some horses just get on with it and carry on doing what they want.
 
My turbo coblet would probably fail vetting but happy hackibg, does lovely dressage test and jumps like a machine well over a meter, I suspect the trim, not necessarily farrier fault
 
If you are that concerned, instead of spending £200 on another vetting, get the vet to come and have a look at the leg only and perhaps ask for some X-rays?
 
Thanks guys - I'll be getting the vet out at the end of the trial to re-examine (not another vetting as she passed all other areas) - I'm keeping everything crossed that it was just her feet bothering her post-trim and that there's at least an improvement. I don't want to throw the baby out with the bathwater! Also got my farrier coming out tomorrow to check her feet and give his opinion. I'm just very conscious of the amount I'm spending on a horse that is not yet officially mine lol - but then I suppose it's better to spend hundreds now than thousands later!!
 
15 year old, used as a broodmare for several years with arthritic changes and suitable for use as a happy hacker (no guarantee it will do anything) isn't in my book worth anything. If I was the owner I would be looking for a long term loaner. Do you know why she was used as a broodmare rather than continuing her ridden life? I'd be suspicious that she'd had an injury or something that prevented her being ridden. I have no idea how much you have agreed to pay for her but I hope it's not more than a couple of hundred. Yes, she may be a lovely mare that will give you confidence but I can't really see that you've been able to do much with her, if her feet were that bad. I know someone with a similar horse that she' been trying to move on for several years, out of the field, unfit she's a sweetie, get her fitter and she's a bit nappy and awkward. Please be careful, she may be a really lovely genuine mare and give you years of happiness but on the other hand, she might not be all she seems. why not ask the owner for an extended loan period, say 6 months, which will give you more time to assess her properly.
 
oldie48 said:
15 year old, used as a broodmare for several years with arthritic changes and suitable for use as a happy hacker (no guarantee it will do anything) isn't in my book worth anything. If I was the owner I would be looking for a long term loaner. Do you know why she was used as a broodmare rather than continuing her ridden life? I'd be suspicious that she'd had an injury or something that prevented her being ridden. I have no idea how much you have agreed to pay for her but I hope it's not more than a couple of hundred. Yes, she may be a lovely mare that will give you confidence but I can't really see that you've been able to do much with her, if her feet were that bad. I know someone with a similar horse that she' been trying to move on for several years, out of the field, unfit she's a sweetie, get her fitter and she's a bit nappy and awkward. Please be careful, she may be a really lovely genuine mare and give you years of happiness but on the other hand, she might not be all she seems. why not ask the owner for an extended loan period, say 6 months, which will give you more time to assess her properly.
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That sounds a good idea to me. You can be sure that in the current climate they won't have people lining up to buy her.
 
I'd send her back. Horses are heart breakers as it is, why willingly buy one that has a list of problems, the risk of her not standing up to increased demands are higher because of these highlighted issues.
 
oldie48 said:
Do you know why she was used as a broodmare rather than continuing her ridden life?.
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She was owned by a Welsh stud and has lovely bloodlines so was used as a foundation broodmare.

A loan would be the ideal scenario, but I'm not sure the owner would go for it as she's never had a problem with her so far and I think she wants to sell. Although she's offered to buy her back in the future if it turns out she can't stand up to the work I want to do with her. I could always ask!
 
Speaking as somebody who had confidence issues a safe, sane horse that you are happy on is truly worth its weight in gold and as they are hard to find, will always have a market.

Realistically, most 15 year old horses will not fly through a vetting as they will have 'wear and tear' and so you have to weigh up the pros and cons as other people have said.

The other thing to remember is that while you might be lucky and have 10 - 15 years of happy, safe hacking with this mare you should really be prepared to provide for her retirement if she doesn't stay sound beyond say 20 as she will be unsellable...something that should always be considered IMHO.

Despite saying the above, I bought a 16yo confidence giver and thoroughly enjoyed the few years I had with him before he retired - I could never have afforded him when he was younger!
 
Keep her. You could go through all the 'what if's' till you're blue in the face, but there will be what if's with every horse anyone buys. And the owner has offered to buy her back if things don't work out - I expect they'd breed from her again. I think a confidence giving horse is worth it's weight in gold if you've lost your nerve, and like the others I'd bet it's the trim that has made her a bit footy, especially if she'd got used to walking about on great overgrown things.
 
I think a lot of 15 year olds would show issues at vetting especially on tight circles
If you loaned her and the owner then decided she wanted her back, how would you feel? If gutted, I would buy (assuming she is the right price for a 15 yr old ex brood mare). Sounds like you are already attached and have made the decision :-)
 
I would expect most 15 year old horses to fail a hind leg flexion so that would not bother me too much. She could be footy due to the trim, but personally, I would have her blood tested for Cushings (you may still be able to get a free test done, not sure). Just in case she has any low grade laminitis starting up.
 
If the seller has agreed to take her back if necessary I can't see why you are hesitating. She sounds like a superstar - go for it.
 
Could be over trim due to badly looked after feet, which wont actually settle until about the third regular trim, coffin bone etc changes poisition, agree wouldnt vet a horse of that age, could do a 5 day bute ccourse which would rule out the foot trim if that was the problem. Then go from there. She sounds a sweetie though.
 
Follow your heart! Plus, as you said, have the vet have another look at the end of the trial to rule out that she is getting worse with the regular work, and maybe to even find out that the feet have settled down.
Good luck, and enjoy this month!
 
If you don't want to send her back then don't. Buy her.
I've known horses fly through full vettings & be injured a few months later.
It sounds like the owner is being accommodating, the horse is exactly what you want. I had a 3 year old who failed a vetting. I bought him anyway for £100....16 years later he's been retired from eventing & hunting but I'm still hoping to do some dressage with him in the spring :)
 
I'd speak to your vet and just be clear on what he meant. To me, it doesn't sound as though he failed her for what you want her to do - more like he said she'd be fine as a happy hacker, but not for more than that.

In your shoes I'd buy. If she's that safe and steady you could sell on again if need be, it sounds as though keeping her on into retirement is an option for you either when she can't cope with ridden work any more or when you want to upgrade, and it also sounds as though the owners would also take her back.
 
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