Advice needed - Resource guarding issue (amongst other things)

[On the Hoof]

Advice needed!
Ok this is a bit long so apologies for this but I need some advice. Context is that I have had my BC puppy since she was 9 weeks old, she turned 15 weeks old today. She is a lovely friendly outgoing puppy who loves people and just wants to play with other dogs. My in laws have a horrid Jack Russell, horrid because he is untrained, grossly overweight due to them giving him treats all the time and they are now too old to exercise him properly. This dog loves me .
We took the puppy over to meet him a couple of weeks ago, the JR persistently growled at my pup and snapped at her, he didn’t want her near me or near anyone else. Due to rather distressing accidents in the last week (MIL broke hip and she is carer for housebound FIL who fell a couple of days ago), all the family are taking it in turns to be at the house to care for FIL, and this will have to continue when MIL gets home for a while). So poor JR has temporarily ‘lost’ his mum and his routine, while my poor puppy has to go over there for long periods of time and is losing her routine aswell; we keep walking them out together and there has been some improvement. Yesterday I took her crate over so she could be crated from time to time so that everything could be calmed down, I cannot look after FIL and supervise two dogs where the layout of the house doesn’t really allow separation. Puppy is starting to leave the dog alone now unless she is in a ‘I really want to play phase’, BUT we are still having to manage the fact that this dog always follows me about and so they are always in the way of each other. Anyway yesterday for once the older dog was quietly on the sofa in living room whilst I was in kitchen with puppy, so I was quietly getting her to sit, lie down and basic things to keep her occupied. Other dog must have heard rattle of kibble being given and came in, I fed him one and then pup one – no problem. Then went to give pup another piece before giving the older dog one and I dropped it, JR lunged for it and my puppy growled and went for him. I guess I was shocked , she doesn’t resource guard at home with humans, we have always from day one, given and taken away food/ toys and made it clear that we are in charge of the food. A few hours later she was drinking water and JR wanted some and she did the same again. At feeding time I made sure puppy was on a leash and we had their bowls about 6ft apart and the puppy wasn’t interested in the other dogs food even though she finished her kibble first. Tbh I didn’t really know how to handle this. Given that we will have to go over to their house a lot over the coming weeks and maybe months, I need to try and sort this. I am worried that all this coming and going between houses is going to make the puppy anxious, and I realized when I got home that because we had spent so much time at the in-laws house that day that the pup hadn’t really had her full ration of food, this is due to the fact that normally her food is given from my pocket and not put in a bowl but that is not possible there without setting up the potential for conflict .
Any advice truly appreciated. Am I overthinking this? How can I instill manners in the puppy around other dogs especially when there is food around, even if she is constantly being snarled at by the older dog, some of which is reasonable – she needs to be told he doesn’t want to play, and some is not reasonable as he is ‘resource guarding’ all his humans. The JR is 11 years old btw and has no manners, does what he wants in the house, doesn’t know the meaning of sit, off , down or anything. The puppy is learning all this stuff but there is much distraction about in the in-laws house – if I call the puppy the other dog comes to me and vice versa. Im really struggling with this; Ideally I would just drop my OH off at the in-laws and have nothing to do with the care, but that is not going to be realistic.

 

[Goldenstar]

I think you are overthinking a little.
If I where you I would just manage the situation so things don’t happen .
Have two water bowls .
I would correct the pup if she rude to the older dog .
He’s in his own space and should lead his life as he always does .
Your pup is probably a bit confused with this turn of events just manage round it .

 

[Sandstone1]

Difficult situation. Firstly, I would feed the pup her breakfast in a bowl before you leave home if that's possible. then at least she's not hungry. Forget about taking food away from her. Thats a out dated method of training. How would you like someone to whip your dinner away from you?
Once you give her her food leave her in peace to eat it. If you feed her at in laws make sure you separate the dogs even if that means putting one in the garden.
It's unfair to try and train her with the old dog in the room.
Make sure there are two water bowls down and either no toys at all of heaps off them so both dogs don't feel the need to fight over them.
While I appreciate that you are using food as treats throughout the day if split it up so she at least gets a small meal in a bowl twice a day.

 

[CorvusCorax]

Pup isn't guarding you/humans, pup is guarding what she sees as her stuff/the source of the stuff.

If the house has doors and if you have crates or a door/stair gate, then there's no reason why you can't keep them separate. There are no physical boundaries therefore the pup will learn nothing - this old git keeps stealing my stuff and interferyng with the source of my stuff, so I have to protect it - and the older dog will not learn anything anyway, it's an 11 year old terrier.

You sound like a bystander in all this. It's up to you to control the pup - YOU tell the pup that the JRT doesn't want to play. YOU control whether or not there is joint access to food and drink. The less you step in and control things, the more likely it is to keep happening and be reinforced. Not all dogs can be bosom buddies all the time.
High food drive and possession isn't a bad thing...it will be a good basis for all your training. But knowing it's there means you have to be careful. Those drives don't switch off because they're somewhere else.

 

[On the Hoof]

Thanks everyone - pup does have a portion of her feeds in bowls but the majority is usually with me- I clearly can’t do that while at MILs. No doors or stair gates at MILs so I am having to watch pup all the time as House isn’t puppy proof - so will have to use crate more. Wasn’t trying to train pup on same room - I stopped when older dog came in. I did rebuke puppy both times but I will make sure to intervene more . We may have to make more use of garden for separating as I don’t want pup in a crate fir 6 hours at a time while I am there . Will be sure to put seperate drinking bowls down. Will see how we get on in next care shift tonight. Thankyou

 

[splashgirl45]

i would say you are overthinking it. feeding your pup from your pocket is ok at home if that is what you want to do but it will cause problems which are preventable with the terrier there . i would feed her before you go and dont feed her from your pocket at all unless you are shut away from the other dog. the puppy is going to feel unsettled and this shows in her reactions so you need to be the one in control of both dogs and dont allow either one to threaten the other..it is only a temporary thing so be patient with both of them..

 

[twiggy2]

I agree you are over thinking it, feed the pup in the crate, train the pup behind a closed door, outside of needed.
The pup could spend one time in the crate in the car if parking is suitable, some time in the garden with you,some time in the crate indoors and the old terrier could spend some time in the garden and some time in the crate.
I have one dog I cannot feed with any others and others dogs I can feed with some but have not other individuals. They won't all be ok to be fed together but should haveannera when hands are giving treats.

 

[Sandstone1]

You could soak a portion of kibble stuff a Kong with it freeze and give to pup in crate. Will help keep pup occupied.
You could also do the same for the old boy in the garden to keep him busy while pup in house. Weather permitting obviously.
Think you just need to manage the situation as best you can. I would feed at least a reasonable breakfast in a bowl as if she's hungry she will be grumpy.

 

[Bellaboo18]

Ok so I read half way down your post to this bit 'we have always from day one, given and taken away food/ toys and made it clear that we are in charge of the food' and gasped.

This is a very old school way of training and a lot of research has shown it encourages the risk of resource guarding and aggression. You're not teaching the puppy you're in charge, you're teaching them to protect what they've got otherwise it will be taken away.
When I worked at a rehoming charity people would come in with their food aggressive dogs and say exactly what you've said.

 

[On the Hoof]

Ok so I read half way down your post to this bit 'we have always from day one, given and taken away food/ toys and made it clear that we are in charge of the food' and gasped.

This is a very old school way of training and a lot of research has shown it encourages the risk of resource guarding and aggression. You're not teaching the puppy you're in charge, you're teaching them to protect what they've got otherwise it will be taken away.
When I worked at a rehoming charity people would come in with their food aggressive dogs and say exactly what you've said.

The pupalways given something in return , basically asked to leave something and rewarded for doing so - I am sorry I have given wrong impression - am a bit over tired and it was a long post.

 

[TheresaW]

When we got Luna as a puppy, we always fed her completely away from Aled as he could be a bit possessive over things, although funnily enough, never food that he was given. We didn’t want him feeling threatened by her. She would often growl at one of us if we happened to walk too close to her whilst she was eating. We never took her food away from her, but started to talk to her, and stand close to her as she was eating, and would put a quarter or so of her food in her bowl, and then slowly add the rest as she was eating it. She isn’t at all aggressive now, and last time wormer was due, I forgot to put it in her dinner, and she was happy for me to pick the bowl up and then put it back down. We lost Aled, and now have Bo.

The dogs are still fed apart, but I think that is more just habit now. When it is being dished up, both will go and wait eagerly in their respective places. They have always shared water quite happily, often drinking out of it together.

 

[On the Hoof]

When we got Luna as a puppy, we always fed her completely away from Aled as he could be a bit possessive over things, although funnily enough, never food that he was given. We didn’t want him feeling threatened by her. She would often growl at one of us if we happened to walk too close to her whilst she was eating. We never took her food away from her, but started to talk to her, and stand close to her as she was eating, and would put a quarter or so of her food in her bowl, and then slowly add the rest as she was eating it. She isn’t at all aggressive now, and last time wormer was due, I forgot to put it in her dinner, and she was happy for me to pick the bowl up and then put it back down. We lost Aled, and now have Bo.

The dogs are still fed apart, but I think that is more just habit now. When it is being dished up, both will go and wait eagerly in their respective places. They have always shared water quite happily, often drinking out of it together.

Yes we started by adding food to her bowl but by bit mainly because she was bolting it down to fast.

 

[On the Hoof]

Oh thanks for the kong suggestion - two being prepared now 😊

 

[Clodagh]

We never feed our dogs even in sight of each other. Pup is always fed in the crate and the others all in a set place, so they all stand by the larder door while I am prepping (as avatar) but then dash to their spot when I pick the first bowl up.

Even if you are giving her something else I wouldn't take her meal away from her, swapping toys is good or a treat for a toy, or even a toy for something like a kong or bone, but I would never take away a main meal. I work on the theory if someone took my steak and gave me a glass of wine I would still be shitty, even though I like both.

 

[JennBags]

I also agree that you're overthinking it, and while I know you're trying to be absolutely perfect with pup, sometimes you just have to work around circumstances and do what you can.
We can't feed our 2 together, although they will share water. Training is out at home, as the slightest hint of food will bring Suzie running, and even play is difficult.
I definitely wouldn't feed them together, and try to keep food/toys away when they are together. Other than that, I think you need to try to stop being anxious around them and let them get on with it.

 

[Bellaboo18]

The pupalways given something in return , basically asked to leave something and rewarded for doing so - I am sorry I have given wrong impression - am a bit over tired and it was a long post.

Just because he gets something in return doesn't mean he won't learn to guard his dinner. He's hungry, eating his yummy dinner and then given something less appealing in exchange. Next time he better learn to cling on to his dinner.
Clodagh is spot on with the steak and wine example.

 

[Cinnamontoast]

Just feed separately. Walk them together if possible and pop puppy in her crate when needed. She's invading his home, so if the jrt gets grumpy, you need to consider him a little bit more, Imo.

 

[Clodagh]

Just feed separately. Walk them together if possible and pop puppy in her crate when needed. She's invading his home, so if the jrt gets grumpy, you need to consider him a little bit more, Imo.

This. I think we all rather latched on to the resource guard training aspect rather than the whole situation, sorry.