Advice needed. Very naughty miniature pony what to do??

Nickles1973

Nickles1973

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My Daughter has a miniature pony which she loves dearly. He is just kept as a companion for my Tb gelding at our livery yard so doesn't have a job as such. We lunge him/free school him from time to time as he enjoys a bit of jumping and it keeps his fitness up/weight down. The thing is he is really not all that nice to be around. He is great with my Daughter (who I should add is 14 so not a little kid. She wanted a pony to look after without the pressure of having to ride after one too many frightening experiences) But is generally horrid to everyone else. He will bite given the opportunity, and is pretty unruly if asked to do something he doesn't want to do.
Everyone on the livery yard dislikes him. Including the yard owner.
The most recent thing he has done to upset everyone (including me) is to do with the yard owners new puppy. He has always had an issue with dogs. If one is in the field with him he will chase it away. This has resulted in him being chased back a couple of times and on at least one occasion when the yard owners older dog retaliated he has been bitten. Last week the yard owners tiny 9 week old jack russel went into the run attached to his stable and Tinker we think trampled it. Fortunately the puppy has made a full recovery but it certainly gave us all a scare. My yard owner is understandably cross and has pretty much given us a warning and told us that we need to puppy proof his stable. The thing is I am not too sure if there is anything we can do to change his behaviour. I think he is acting pretty much how you might expect a mini shetty to act. Otherwise can anyone offer some advice for how we can perhaps change his attitude??
 
Madness to allow a 9 week puppy anywhere near a pony and I don't see how your pony can be blamed for the consequences.
 
Loose dogs around horses is asking for trouble and the poor puppy paid the price :( it's not your fault x
 
At least he behaves for your daughter :) I suppose the usual - what's he fed, how do you react to his behaviour etc? Could he be driven in harness; maybe having a job to do would help? The biting obviously is something that needs to be addressed, as is the general acting up, but tbh I don't think the dogs should be running loose in the fields or exploring stables etc...and I speak as someone with two dogs of their own!
 
I think he is acting pretty much how you might expect a mini shetty to act.

That is the main problem, he is a very small pony but why should he be allowed to behave this way just because that is almost expected of him, they are not known as shitlands for no reason.

He needs a job to use up some of his energy, you or your daughter need to take him in hand and stop accepting that he bites, refuses to do something he doesn't want to and learns to behave in the same way any equine should, just because he is tiny should not mean he can get away with being bad mannered. I would start to work him more regularly, long rein him rather than free school so he has to respond properly, do some interesting work on desensitising, polework, aim to take him out to a show, anything to give him a purpose and make him realise he is not in charge, clicker training may work to focus his mind and help with the biting.
 
Needs occupying, sounds like my naughty dog, who needs a job. I think you need to put him to use. The YO is unfair to expect you to keep her dog safe. Regardless of size, your mini is still a horse with the same instincts and my 15hh h/w would equally trample a dog in his territory/stable and the pup would not survive!
 
As others have said he needs a job and is a little bit bored? Maybe a bit of agility work? If the yard use a harrow maybe break him to harness to harrow the school/fields? Or just long rein him out. Xxx
 
The funny thing about shetlands is that they tend to only really bite the people who let them.

The dog incident is not your fault, there is no way a 9 week old puppy should be loose around horses and surely it is the YO's responsibility to dog proof her own stables?

He does sound like he needs a job. It might be worth getting him a little bridle and walking him out like a dog or if your daughter likes jogging she can take him on jogs.
 
Sorry to hear about the dog incidents. Maybe he'd enjoy doing horse..well, pony...agility? It would certainly keep his mind busy if nothing else.
 
The dog incident: not the pony's fault. If the YO is going to let dogs run loose though, probably not a bad idea to dog proof his run. Or find another yard.

How often does the pony get exercised, honestly? And when you do lunge or loose school him, what do you do? Set out with some aims for the session like you would a larger horse, or just let him run round and run his energy off?

Generally, if you treat them like horses and not overgrown pets, they respond like horses. I used to work on a stud with over 300 of the little blighters, and actually the only one that was a bit of a git to handle was a slightly larger stallion who wasn't kept with the others and didn't get out as much. And that was all down to management. When one of my colleagues took him under his wing and started doing stuff with him, his behaviour settled down no end.

My advice would be:
1) No treats by hand. Ever.
2) Consistent groundwork. Make sure that whenever you lead him anywhere, you lead him properly, like you would a larger horse.
3) If other people on the yard can't handle him properly, don't let them handle him at all. He needs consistency.
4) Lots of groundwork. Not just chasing him round. These ponies are very intelligent and very quick, and they will make their own entertainment if they don't have enough to think about. Take him for walks in hand. Use lots of transitions when you lunge him to get him listening. Pony agility work is a very good idea. Also teach him to long rein - it will allow you to add changes of rein and larger school patterns into your lunging.
5) Driving is great fun, and it's certainly worth exploring that avenue. Plus if he will drag stuff, that's a useful skill and he can be put to good use harrowing, school levelling, etc.
6) Diet. They need next to nothing, just low energy fibre. Any excess feed and they are like small children on e numbers.
7) Company. You say he's a companion for your tb, but then you talk about his pen. Does he actually get turned out with other ponies?
 
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I have a mini shetland. He has a very big attitude. When he first came to us he would try to bite, He still forgets himself now and again, but is put in his place promptly. He also tried to trample the local cat when it got to close, just a game to him, like chasing the rabbits in the field. The puppy incident was not your fault, but I understand you being upset about it. Work the shetland as much as you can, spend time just grooming him, walk him out in hand. He will improve. Treat him like a big horse, would you let a big horse bite, pull you around etc, don't let him either. The trouble is they are too cute for their own good :)
 
I see this so often - unfortunately people think they are cute little pets - they aren't they are small horses who learn just the same as big ones.

Take him in hand - something your daughter may really enjoy doing.

Get yourselves some books on breaking to harness - look out for courses where you can go to learn more on driving.

Teach him manners - they don't come pre-programmed. Ask everyone at the yard for their help - so that they also understand that you are no longer tolerating this behaviour.

You can be firm and nice - no need to resort to aggressive behaviour - but consistent regular work. WE have a group here called Kids Karts - the kids go to rallies each week where they learn about driving and associated skills.

Look up horse agility on the web - there are videos you can get

Keep his mind busy - and I do hope he has a large area to play in as he is still a horse with energy and ther desires to run around and have horsey fun with his mates.

As for the puppy, accidents happen and puppies need to be supervised until they know where they can and can't go. Mine learnt that the riding school arena paddock was an off limits area pretty quickly.
 
What a total idiot I would be fuming with yard owner. What dog lover lets a little pup near a pony. I would say leave the yard get the pony doing free schooling. Clicker training is excellent I went on a course last year. Using clicker training can teach them to have manners and not nip and in fact cure behavioural problems. Look up some videos on you tube.
 
The two things that have worked brilliantly with my very cocky pony who likes to bite is

* No treats by hand ever! As soon as he has even one he'll start biting again.

* If he comes anywhere near my personal space I throw my hands up and if needed will escalate it. Never touching him but doing want I need to do to make him back away from me.
 
i have a mini,big horse attitude in a little body. She needs firm boundaries ,no titbits and exercise otherwise gets unruly. loves to go for walks and would love to do agility. i would never leave a pup near her and yet she isnt a naughty horse just cheeky..
 
Nobody likes the pony, you say. That speaks volumes to me, as it's probable that the attitudes of the humans around him are playing a bit part in his behavioural issues.

Inconsistencies in peoples' attitudes to and interactions with the pony will allow him to develop bad habits. You say he is ok with your daughter. What is it that she does differently which causes him to be that way, do you think?
 
It makes me sad to read 'everyone hates him, even the yard owner'. My previous YO hated my 12 year old Shetland, she would walk up to him and snarl 'you need a bullet' and other horrible obscenities. Yes he was cocky but was nice natured, never kicked or bit. By the time I moved him he was a wreck, terrified of the YO and even 8 months later he's not himself but improving. I believe they really do pick up on such negativity and it's a downward spiral, I hope things improve for you and the pony. The puppy incident certainly wasn't his or your fault!
 
Target or clicker training can help with the biting. In fact just learning how to treat correctly can help with the biting. Couple of points to remember first about nipping/biting: One is it is a learned behaviour based around incorrect treat giving - they grab and get the treat thus grabbing = treat, this leads to nipping = treat and so on. Second nipping and biting are play starting tactics in a herd environment - watch horses in the field - they will nip a little to initiate play.

Either stop treating (if you do) or start treating correctly which will help his behaviour. I'll deal with the play initiating first - every time he goes to nip/bite turn your back ignore him and walk away. Return a minute or so later and give him praise and a pat. If he goes to nip/bite again turn and walk away. This denies the play invite he is giving - lots of people start talking and grabbing and this reinforces the behaviour - he is getting a response from initiating with nipping/biting - he needs to have no response, by ignoring him he should do it less.
Second treating correctly. Stand at his shoulder and put your hand with treat on his opposite side (usually under the neck but he is small so probably over the neck!). He has to turn his head away from you and not nip/bite to get the treat. If he goes to nip/bite then turn away and walk away - do not give him the treat. Try again. As soon as he moves his head away and doesn't nip/bite he gets the treat. Eventually you can make him wait longer for the treat before giving it to him. You can do the same outside his door. Stand facing out and if he goes to bite step sideways and ignore it, if he keeps his head still he gets a treat. Repeat.

Do not let anyone else walk within a couple of meters of his box door or treat him. This should reduce his trying to grab people outside his door (if he does) and allows you to train him to not do it! No on else should treat him unless they know and are willing to do it properly.

Food is so high on their priority list that it should help improve his behaviour fairly quickly - you need to be consistent and patient. The treats don't have to be huge either. You can also teach target or clicker training with this method.

Try ground manners in the same way you would with a big horse. Ask him to move sideways, to stop and go when asked etc etc.

I also second teaching him to drive/harness to a harrow. Gives him something to think about and do. Take him for a jog or lunge him as you would a big horse - transitions, suppling exercises, pop over poles, cavaletti, jumps etc. Make him use his brain - pony agility sounds good too. Make sure he gets good field time to be a pony :)

If other people don't like him then restrict their access to him - people being mean or using nasty tones in their voices will make him feel bad and act up. If he is on livery then find the one groom who likes him the most and involve them in his retraining and only let that groom deal with him.

In regards to YO's dog - that is her problem, young puppies should not be loose on a yard. the dog is not your responsibility. If the YO won't puppy proof the stables then I suggest doing it for yours for the sake of your horses - they may be afraid of dogs and that causes their reactions. Think of it as removing the puppy threat from your horses rather than the horses being removed as a threat to the puppy. :)

Hope that helps and good luck :)
 
I have read this tread with HORROR!!!!

A 9 week old puppy running about in a yard where people are coming in from off site, with who knows what coming in on their shoes and clothes! Forget the risk from the horses what about parvo virus, what about distemper. I bet everyone is picking up the puppy(who wouldn't) it will be very lucky to survive. It needs to be kept indoors, away from people, until it has completed its injections or it will be dead! Your YO is an idiot!
The horse needs to be treated like a horse and taught manners , it needs a job or it will continue to cause trouble. I think they almost take more time then a "real" horse.
 
LOVE the idea of teaching him to harrow, a proper job could be the making of him and curry favour with the rather stupid sounding YO, honestly dogs running loose and that's your problem!
 
Honestly, I would not stay on a yard with a YO that allowed their dogs to chase livery horses in their paddocks. If she runs it as a professional business, you would have been well within your rights to sue her when her older dog bit your pony. Yard owners have an implied duty of care to all livery horses on their premises, regardless of what may or may not be in your contract.

As for the puppy, at 9 weeks old being given free run of a yard of horses is nothing short of wilful negligence. Your pony has not been at fault AT ALL for wither canine incident so don't you dare say sorry or accept any blame. Your YO is a prize idiot.

As for your pony...I would honestly say to please, either give it regular exercise or no exercise at all, because occasionally working it on the lunge or playing about can be really damaging to tendons, even in minis. I would see about breaking him to harness or taking him on regular in hand hacks to get him off the yard and out into the world for some stimulation. The behaviour...well, you're expecting it, so you're getting it. Stop. Expect and demand better from him. He might be small, but he is still a pony and still more than capable of hurting you so you need a zero tolerance approach to his behaviour. Don't go in all guns blazing, let him know what you do like but be quick to let him know what you don't. Be consistent, never have an "off" day where you can't be bothered or he'll take instant advantage of it and get started soon. It'll be you doing him when your daughter is cramming for exams or off to college/uni, so you need to get him in hand.

Good luck and if you can...move yards....I actually couldn't be around as big an idiot as your YO.
 
Thank you everyone that has posted. It is a relief to know that I am not the only one to think that neither the pony nor I was not actually to blame for what happened to the puppy. I admit that due to my own horse having had surgery this year I have been very much occupied with his rehab and so a lot of the plans we had to spend more time with the little one have rather taken a back seat. I am getting closer to the stage where my horse will be back in work as normal so we will make a conscious effort to spend more time training mini. I really like the idea of treating him from the offside (sorry can't remember who's idea it was to mention names) But I can see that really helping with trying clicker training again. Since we were put off the idea right at the start because he got too insistent when it came to being treated for touching the target. I have already put in place another door to his stable which will be puppy proof when finished. Thus protecting him from further attention from the dogs and also will stop anyone else having to come into contact with him. He does get turnout and as the winter approaches more of this will be in with my horse so he will get more horsey contact. At the moment he is spending sometime in a section of field along side my horse to limit how much grass he gets since his weight has gradually crept up this year. Thanks again.
 
Nickles1973 said:
I really like the idea of treating him from the offside (sorry can't remember who's idea it was to mention names) But I can see that really helping with trying clicker training again. Since we were put off the idea right at the start because he got too insistent when it came to being treated for touching the target.
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:) It should help reduce the ability to nip at the beginning as well as he needs to keep his head to the offside :)
Yes, this is where the nipping can start - if you do clicker or target train, if at any point he loses the "treat manners" and lunges or nips for a treat, ignore the behaviour, walk away and try again. He will hopefully soon learn that only good manners gets rewards. Too many people just treat the behaviour and don't realise that they are actually creating the behaviour as horse/pony is being taught that lunging = treat :)

Good luck! Stay positive and the mini will get better with good training :) then everyone will love him, and if they don't then their loss!
 
bonny said:
Madness to allow a 9 week puppy anywhere near a pony and I don't see how your pony can be blamed for the consequences.
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This totally. You know your pony has issues with dogs and I assume the YO knows too, so what on earth was she thinking? And if she had any intelligence she wouldn't allow a 9 week old puppy loose around horses that aren't even hers (so she doesn't know them very well) anyway... I'd be annoyed with the YO, its not up to her to tell you she dislikes your daughters pony!
 
bonny said:
Madness to allow a 9 week puppy anywhere near a pony and I don't see how your pony can be blamed for the consequences.
Click to expand...

Fides said:
Loose dogs around horses is asking for trouble and the poor puppy paid the price :( it's not your fault x
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Arizahn said:
At least he behaves for your daughter :) I suppose the usual - what's he fed, how do you react to his behaviour etc? Could he be driven in harness; maybe having a job to do would help? The biting obviously is something that needs to be addressed, as is the general acting up, but tbh I don't think the dogs should be running loose in the fields or exploring stables etc...and I speak as someone with two dogs of their own!
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Agree with the above. Mini shetlands can be driven and can pull a small trap with an adult. He needs regular work, not just being long reined now and again.
 
Nickles1973 said:
My Daughter has a miniature pony which she loves dearly. He is just kept as a companion for my Tb gelding at our livery yard so doesn't have a job as such. We lunge him/free school him from time to time as he enjoys a bit of jumping and it keeps his fitness up/weight down. The thing is he is really not all that nice to be around. He is great with my Daughter (who I should add is 14 so not a little kid. She wanted a pony to look after without the pressure of having to ride after one too many frightening experiences) But is generally horrid to everyone else. He will bite given the opportunity, and is pretty unruly if asked to do something he doesn't want to do.
Everyone on the livery yard dislikes him. Including the yard owner.
The most recent thing he has done to upset everyone (including me) is to do with the yard owners new puppy. He has always had an issue with dogs. If one is in the field with him he will chase it away. This has resulted in him being chased back a couple of times and on at least one occasion when the yard owners older dog retaliated he has been bitten. Last week the yard owners tiny 9 week old jack russel went into the run attached to his stable and Tinker we think trampled it. Fortunately the puppy has made a full recovery but it certainly gave us all a scare. My yard owner is understandably cross and has pretty much given us a warning and told us that we need to puppy proof his stable. The thing is I am not too sure if there is anything we can do to change his behaviour. I think he is acting pretty much how you might expect a mini shetty to act. Otherwise can anyone offer some advice for how we can perhaps change his attitude??
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Puppy proof the stable!!!! The YO is on another planet. Don't allow a puppy to run loose & unsupervised ever. You pay for that stable & field & its unfair on the puppy & your mini that the YO is a div. Start looking elsewhere for livery - you're dealing with an idiot there.
 
bonny said:
Madness to allow a 9 week puppy anywhere near a pony and I don't see how your pony can be blamed for the consequences.
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I agree especially such a small dog, it should be kept away from horses. I have three miniatures and they will all chase my dogs, fortunately mine are springers so bigger and very agile. Saying that if I use a firm 'NO' the ponies will back off. One of mine did start nipping and again I would use NO and give her a little tap on her nose, she no longer nips at all. Perhaps your daughter needs to spend time with the pony on a headcollar around the dog and try to teach him that the dog is not to be a target. Miniatures are usually very bright and learn manners very quickly. Good luck and I really don't think it was your fault the dog got trampled, yard owner should be grateful it was a miniature as a big horse could have killed it very easily.
 
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