Advice Needed..

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NEDD3

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Hello, I'm new to this site, and what a way to start by asking for everyone's advice.

The Story..
My horse has been diagnosed with Kissing spine in three vertebrae just where the back of the saddle would sit. After a bone scan we also found hot spots in all three joints of the right hind. She has built up more on the right to the left with a v. pronounced bump on the right side of her lumber region (not KS related) My vet has advised that the Sacral Iliac region has been damaged but is no longer an active injury. Xrays of the stifle and Hock show no changes to date. My vet believes (as i wanted her to eventually event) that it is not worth pursuing any treatment as she will never be able to cope with ridden work (schooling/jumping)

This mare in mind and soul is quiet literally perfect! and most importantly is my best friend. Do i fix the KS and have a happy hacker and give up on a competitive future or do as the vet advised and turn out the lights??
This little mare is rising 5 she is TBx Warmblood so far we have done a lot of groundwork and she has been lightly backed. I have had various treatments done (prior to diagnoses) including Bowen, Mctimoney, Masterson Method, Physio, two healers, acupressure and miyo facial release. All of which have helped short turn.

My head and my heart are in a constant battle and i just don't know what to do for her or me.

I don't expect this decision to be made for me as this is something i have to make, but if any of you have had any experience with the above or have any words of advice im all ears

xx
 
Welcome to the forum. I don't know your circumstances, whether you have the means to fund surgery and a possible paddock ornament, but if you do, I would go for the surgery and then put her on turmeric therapy for any degenerative joint problems. I have a big WB who was 1/10th lame due to overwork too young and he is sound on turmeric (with oil and freshly ground black pepper as advised) - it took a couple of months to show improvement but it worked for him.
Turmeric is anti inflammatory and will hopefully encourage things to settle in such a young horse.
 
I don't have any experience with KS, but do you have insurance that is going to cover the surgery? Obviously this is a very difficult decision you need to make, but if you have insurance then personally I think it is worth considering, if not then I think you will have to think hard about the costs and if you can afford it for a horse that isn't going to do the job you want and that you are going to have to support for the rest of her life. Good luck with whatever you decide, please keep us updated.
 
NEDD3 said:
Hello, I'm new to this site, and what a way to start by asking for everyone's advice.

The Story..
My horse has been diagnosed with Kissing spine in three vertebrae just where the back of the saddle would sit. After a bone scan we also found hot spots in all three joints of the right hind. She has built up more on the right to the left with a v. pronounced bump on the right side of her lumber region (not KS related) My vet has advised that the Sacral Iliac region has been damaged but is no longer an active injury. Xrays of the stifle and Hock show no changes to date. My vet believes (as i wanted her to eventually event) that it is not worth pursuing any treatment as she will never be able to cope with ridden work (schooling/jumping)

This mare in mind and soul is quiet literally perfect! and most importantly is my best friend. Do i fix the KS and have a happy hacker and give up on a competitive future or do as the vet advised and turn out the lights??
This little mare is rising 5 she is TBx Warmblood so far we have done a lot of groundwork and she has been lightly backed. I have had various treatments done (prior to diagnoses) including Bowen, Mctimoney, Masterson Method, Physio, two healers, acupressure and miyo facial release. All of which have helped short turn.

My head and my heart are in a constant battle and i just don't know what to do for her or me.

I don't expect this decision to be made for me as this is something i have to make, but if any of you have had any experience with the above or have any words of advice im all ears

xx
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So basically she has KS and the SI is not an active injury? So does the vet feel that its the KS which will stop her eventing or the old SI injury as I am a little confused? The joint hot spots are presumably due to over compensation hence the build up of muscle on the right side as the left side is weak. If you have insurance as others have pointed out, I would be inclined to opt for surgery and take it from there. I'd also speak to a good phsyio I(can recommend a very good one if you are Midlands based) and the physio should be able to give you advice (not as a second opion to the vet) but he/she may have seen similiar cases to yours and be able to guide you appropriately. I know you say you have already had a physio but as this was prior to diagnosis it would be very useful now, the sooner exercises can be carried out to help the overcompensation issue, the quicker part of the problem with the hotspots can be alleviated. Given her age if she was mine I would explore all avenues especially as there are no changes to hocks/stifle which is really good news.
 
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Hi Everyone thank you so much for taking the time out to respond to my plea.. Il try and answer as many of your Q,s as i can..
Yes she is covered by insurance for the Kissing Spine we have enough for the operation but all after-care physio etc will be down to me as we have spent a lot on the investigative stages so far. She currently runs with a herd but we have separate smaller paddocks that can be used post surgery. Thank you JillA i will look into the Turmeric Therapy! The vet is concerned by the SI injury he believes the KS is easily fixable with the operation (had this been her only problem we would have operated straight away) And yes the joint hotspots he says is down to her SI being tilted through injury as a six week old foal. His concern is that at this point in time the joints are starting to change (although not yet visible on xray) once i start to up her training which basically has barely started he is saying these changes will be accelerated. She is at present unable to bring her nr hindleg through underneath her. Only way i can think to explain it is that to elastic bands because the middle point is off centre one side can stretch less than the other? As you can imagine her hamstrings are v. tight and she struggles to have her back legs up for a trim or feet pick, she cannot cross off hind to nr. She is also becoming more and more pigeon toed in front (again believed to be from the way she carries herself with all these issues poor thing.)
I hope my explanations have helped? x
 
I would have the KS treated she's young ,nothing too terrible was found behind the SI injury is not active .
You like her she's deserves a chance .
You will have to attend to the rehab carefully and make sure you have a super good saddle fitter for the future .
I would give her two doses of tildren as well about six weeks apart as soon as you can after the op do the rehab then keep her out and hack her lightly for a year over the most varied terrain you can find .
 
I agree with JillA join THE TURMERIC USER GROUP on Facebook the chap that started the site is Doug English he is a vet.
Well worth a look ,turmeric is not expensive the horses seem to enjoy eating it , and we have seen some really good results with it at our yard.
 
A lot of KS horses seem to have SI trouble before treatment, I think I would do the op and see what happens. The vet sounds pessimistic without good grounds, ie the joints are changing but there's no sign on the x ray? How does he know they are changing then?

If you like the horse you might always wonder/regret not doing it. Doing it then having her put down if it doesn't work you will know you did it all. Neither of those outcomes are nice, but you might get a sound horse at the end of option 2.
 
I would also go for the KS operation. I would also find a SCENAR practitioner (we strongly believe that the SCENAR has reduced/eliminated the pain caused by arthritic changes in my 23 year old's hock joints) and as part of the rehab I would be looking towards some form of straightness training. In theory the more even you can get her the less likely she is to have issues down the line.
 
my exracer had ks and sacroiliac. We got the treatment for it and he came sound (touch wood!). He also dragged his leg badly because of the si and when ridden had trouble pushing off in canter etc. But once his back improved and muscled up, his SI improved 100% as he was moving correctly now. Tooks MONTHS of groundwork and walking over poles etc, but well worth it.

if you like the horse, it sounds like you will regret NOT doing it, especially if you have insurance. I had written my lad off and retired him, and I can't believe he is back being ridden happily now.
 
On a bone scan it is perfectly normal for developing joints to show up as hot spots as a 5 yr old I wouldn't worry that both showed up on the scan, the over compensation will be easily sorted by a good Physio post operation.
 
Thank you all again for your advice and shared experiences.. It is very helpful to know that there are people out there that have gone through a similar experience and came out smiling :) Conniegirl my mum actually questioned the bone scan results and the fact that the results could be linked to growth given her age and size. The vet said we were being silly as she was no longer growing!

I am happy to go against my vets recommendation and go ahead and have the KS operation done. Now to make a plan for her recovery and Re-training. Here's to a happy ending with my forever horse.

Thank you all again i can not tell you how helpful you have all been! xx
 
My last horse had a bonescan when he was 5yrs old, his hocks and knees both showed markedly increased uptake, his pasturns and stifles showed some uptake, however his pelvis lit up like a christmas tree and so did his skull.
Vet (major equine hospital lameness specialist) said his joints were perfectly normal for a young horse as growth plates are still remoddeling and sealing. My lad had a fractured pelvis and skull!
He came completly sound with treatment and time.
 
Haha, I'm the worst person to give advice having currently racked up 7k worth of bills for a broken down ex racer that I'm stupidly determined to fix. I would do the KS op and take it from there if its the lig snip. I'd probably think twice about the trad op though
 
The Ks operation the vet has offered is standing op, shaving the vertebrae in question.. He didnt say anything about ligaments? I will discuss with them though to be sure. . I take it one is better than the other? X
 
NEDD3 said:
The vet said we were being silly as she was no longer growing!
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What??? the spinal column - comprised of 32 vertebrae with multiple growth plates and the last to fuse - the conversion process takes a minimum of 5 ½ years depending on the size and sex of the horse!!

Growth rates of other bones:

Short pastern – bottom before birth, top 9-12 months
Long pastern, 12 -15 months
Cannon bone, 18 months,
Humerus 3-5.5 years
Scapula 3 -3.5 years
The last bone in the spine takes 7 years to fuse in a warmblood!
 
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NEDD3 said:
Conniegirl my mum actually questioned the bone scan results and the fact that the results could be linked to growth given her age and size. The vet said we were being silly as she was no longer growing!
Click to expand...

This alone would have me seeking a 2nd oppinion!
 
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