Advice on 4 year olds behaviour

[Needtoretire]

The horse has reared and bronced her off I don't think I would want to continue riding him after that without ruling out pain though.

I agree, but would still put a very experienced rider/horseman on board before rushing into a vet spiral. Not to beat the horse into submission but to have a someone feel what the horse is saying, how he is saying it and what triggers the behaviour. A classic would be a strong reaction into right canter aid indicating ulcers for example which an experienced person might be able to highlight, still needs treatment but avoids the mega money work up and probable exclusions going forwards.

Plenty of fresh, fit, bolshy horses will have a jump around and be capable of dumping a less experienced or less strong rider and when they learn they can do it we all know what follows, loss of confidence and many fears. I remember an old horseman telling me you must never fall off a young horse or one in early education. They don't need to know they can dump you at will.

 

[FestiveFuzz]

It does sound like you’re doing quite a lot and perhaps overacted him a bit. I bought a 4yo last summer who was super sweet but very, very green, he also turns 5 next month. We’ve only just taken him to his first arena hire last week, and while he mostly kept his sh!t together while we were out, it’s clear it completely blew his brain and it’s taken the best part of the week to get him back onside. We’d planned to do weekly hires with an aim to do a low level dressage in June, but after last week we’re going back to the drawing board a bit as I think we’d end up seeing some trigger stacking and things getting out of hand if we forged ahead with the original plan.

In your shoes I’d want to get all the usual checks cleared and then probably take it back a step or two so it’s all firmly within both your comfort zones for the moment. I’d also be getting a pro in to help nip any unwanted behaviour in the bud.

 

[Timelyattraction]

Tricky one. I had (have) a very sane sensible 5 yo mare and end of last year she started rearing and broncing and was so out of character for her. Again i thought it was her just trying it on and i tried to keep riding through it and it just got worse. I sent her for a full work up and ulcers and psd was found.

On the other hand we have a welsh a and when she was 4, approaching 5, she again had some sass come out of no where and started pushing boundaries and rearing. I worked her hard whenever she did it or threated as a consequence and touch wood after a few weeks of battling with her shes been fine ever since , shes 6 now and just an amazing pony for my young kids, shes taught/ teaching them to ride and now the eldest is starting pony club on her

I think if you think she genuinely is unhappy and not just being fresh / a bit naughty then it probably is pain related especially if its escalating . You coupd try popping her out in the field for a month or so and bringing her back in and see if the issues still there if you think shes gone a bit sour

 

[ihatework]

Without seeing the horse in question or knowing you, these are the general things I do:

First:
Brief vet check - at home, trot up / flexions / lunge and feel all over.
Cut ALL hard feed
Saddle & teeth check.

Second:
Get impartial advice on either -
Give a break if the horse has had a real growth spurt or
Get someone experienced in to ride / send away for a month of boot camp (assuming no obvious vet issue).

If they don’t knuckle down quickly with a pro then I’d take a deeper look at the vets.

 

[Esmae]

Taking this route will put lots of exclusions on the insurance and cause problems in the future.

As I found out recently. Behaviour problems with a slightly older horse, suspected hocks but nothing on xray. Bordering dangerous to ride so he went in for full work up and MRI. Found his problem was his hocks which were dealt with. Insurer excluded, at renewal, skull, neck, spine, pelvis and both hind legs. I questioned their reasoning and they said arthritis could affect the rest of him so they excluded his skeletal structure basically. Of course they still wanted £1400 to insure what was left.

I would be very wary about going too quickly down the full vet work up with a young horse showing a bit of attitude. Before we has access to all the diagnostic kit we would have either given down time or sent it hunting for a season to reassess its outlook on life.

I'm sorry, I don't see why the insurance should be involved at all. Essentially he is having a vet check and being turned away for a few months to mature. Why does that have anything to do with the insurance? I would still do as I described earlier.

 

[SEL]

Taking this route will put lots of exclusions on the insurance and cause problems in the future.

As I found out recently. Behaviour problems with a slightly older horse, suspected hocks but nothing on xray. Bordering dangerous to ride so he went in for full work up and MRI. Found his problem was his hocks which were dealt with. Insurer excluded, at renewal, skull, neck, spine, pelvis and both hind legs. I questioned their reasoning and they said arthritis could affect the rest of him so they excluded his skeletal structure basically. Of course they still wanted £1400 to insure what was left.

I would be very wary about going too quickly down the full vet work up with a young horse showing a bit of attitude. Before we has access to all the diagnostic kit we would have either given down time or sent it hunting for a season to reassess its outlook on life.

That's naughty of your insurance company.

I had a full work up on a pony in 2022 and they excluded her spine (kissing spine was found) and her right fore due to the strained check ligament but the rest of her was covered despite the vet going massively over board with the x-ray and ultrasound machine. They could have excluded all 4 legs on that basis.

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

Alot of things that get excluded can be requested to go back on it's just people tend not to so they just stay excluded alot of the time.

 

[rextherobber]

That's naughty of your insurance company.

I had a full work up on a pony in 2022 and they excluded her spine (kissing spine was found) and her right fore due to the strained check ligament but the rest of her was covered despite the vet going massively over board with the x-ray and ultrasound machine. They could have excluded all 4 legs on that basis.

Same, full body scan and x rays, insurance only excluded the back (KS found) despite the body scan lighting up like a Christmas tree ( all just age related changes according to the vet)

 

[MissMay]

I always give 6 weeks off after a growth spurt.
I had a rising 5 year old who basically did nothing as he kept having spurts and ended up growing nearly a full hand in that space so I wouldn't rule it out.

Also most 4 and 5 year olds are absolute brats pushing boundaries before they come back on side.

Fire him out and leave him alone until the end of May then crack on for the summer if he seems to have levelled.

New experiences, sugar in grass, feeling himself, and growth spurts make it quite a challenging time

We expect babies to be non impacted as you see the young horse shows and the 4/5 year old classes where everything looks developed and not showing teenage melt downs. That's not real life.

Did he have the winter or summer off after breaking? Has he ever had a period of just down time out in the field with out being caught in and messed with?
It's the most crucial part of babies life so they need lots of time off to process and alot aren't offered this time really the first 4 or so years they should spend 99% of it out in the field with other play mates learning how to move their ever changing body with no restriction through play

 

[ycbm]

I'm sorry, I don't see why the insurance should be involved at all. Essentially he is having a vet check and being turned away for a few months to mature. Why does that have anything to do with the insurance? I would still do as I described earlier.

Because people don't pay for vet checks for no reason. They pay for them because either consciously or unconsciously they think there might be something wrong. And the insurance click starts ticking when you first notice something is wrong, not when you first claim.

If a claim goes in for a part of the body which is on the vet record as having been investigated before, the claim will often be dated from the original investigation, whether anything showed up at that time or not.
.

 

[QuantockHills]

my 4 year old when through a bit of a 'stage' like this.... very nappy and spinning... I had him x-rayed, couldn't find anything other than growth spurts so i turned him away for 6 months then started slowly again with a professionals help. he had loads of holidays and has been fine since. he's 10 now... and still has a good few weeks off if he's been busy (or I just feel like a break!)

 

[Needtoretire]

I'm sorry, I don't see why the insurance should be involved at all. Essentially he is having a vet check and being turned away for a few months to mature. Why does that have anything to do with the insurance? I would still do as I described earlier.

You need to look at how equine insurance works. Your simple 'vet check' is recorded. Records to which the insurance company has a right to see and your vet cannot hide. Advising the OP to jump straight into full investigations is poor and potentially very costly advice.

For example, horse had small wound just above front fetlock, some swelling and a hint of yellow sticky fluid, I was suspicious the joint might be involved. Vet out and thankfully nothing structural, clean up and 5 days ab's. No claim.

Renewed insurance and had to complete the mandatory health declaration. Leg excluded for 12 months for a simple wound. You cannot hide anything from the insurer and quite frankly I think insuring horses for vet care is soon going to be impossibly expensive and restrictive.

 

[Esmae]

You need to look at how equine insurance works. Your simple 'vet check' is recorded. Records to which the insurance company has a right to see and your vet cannot hide. Advising the OP to jump straight into full investigations is poor and potentially very costly advice.

For example, horse had small wound just above front fetlock, some swelling and a hint of yellow sticky fluid, I was suspicious the joint might be involved. Vet out and thankfully nothing structural, clean up and 5 days ab's. No claim.

Renewed insurance and had to complete the mandatory health declaration. Leg excluded for 12 months for a simple wound. You cannot hide anything from the insurer and quite frankly I think insuring horses for vet care is soon going to be impossibly expensive and restrictive.

The more I hear about insurance, the more glad I am that I have never, in over 50 years of horse ownership, had any truck with insurance companies. I have always funded my own vet bills and now I am at my very last horse, so that isn't about to change at this point. I agree with your last sentence and not just for horses either. I think they will price themselves out of the market for everything else at the rate they are going.

 

[Cortez]

Sorry to further derail OP (FWIW I'd cut feed - incl spring grass, up work, and let the pro tell me what they think), but insurance has really got it's slimey gnashers into the leisure horse world. Vets seem to be called out for the tiniest thing and EVERYTHING is medicalised. Horses can just be gits sometimes, and horsemanship is knowing that.

ETA - Agree with you 100% Esmae.

 

[lovely_ponies]

The 'Kevin' stage. Can you get some professional help ?

Could someone explains what "Kevin" means?!

 

[Melody Grey]

Could someone explains what "Kevin" means?!

It’s a reference to a character from Harry Enfield and Chums the tv show….go Google! Basically a teenager who goes from child to stroppy teen overnight.

 

[ycbm]

Could someone explains what "Kevin" means?!