Advice on a sarcoid.

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showqa

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Would welcome your advice/experiences.

My 7 year old gelding probably has a sarcoid. Vet said pound to a penny that's what it is. It's on the inside of his leg and certainly isn't a problem as such. So far the vet advises do nothing, monitor and review in the spring when if they're going to spread they will. Of course not happy that one has appeared, but also know that it's not the end of the world, won't necessarily spread and at such an early stage there are things that can be done. Just wondered what approaches you guys have taken when your horse's have developed them?

One thing that is a bit of a worry, I've heard that they shouldn't be allowed to mix with other horses for fear of flies passing on the virus? Well I have three equines and there is no way this horse can live apart from the other two - he would go spare. Thanks all.
 
I don't have any experience on this, but was just going to ask, after watching about that poor pony on Animal Madhouse on Channel 4 with large sarciods, that they say a sarcoid just starts with a lump that may just look like a fly bite or cyst. I have had my boy nearly 5 months, and he has always had a lump on his neck, under his mane. It is hard, covered in his hair, and about the 1 cm across - it has not got worse. It was not mentioned on his 5 star vetting, but his mane was covering it, and I only noticed it on grooming him and then it is more noticeable, as I have trained his mane to fall the correct way now.
As it has not changed, shall I just mention it next time the vet is out, or make an appointment for the vet to look. I just thought it was a small cyst or possible bite, but am worried after watching this - how did yours start if you have had them?
 
I have a 7yr old gelding who I bought in August after loaning him for a year, I had him 2 stage vetted and she found a small "pea" sized lump high up on the inside of his right hind leg. She said it was probably a sarcoid but to leave well alone unless it started to spread,break out. It is not in the way of tack so have just let it be, I keep checking it and so far no problems. Fingers all crossed it wont be a problem, the vet said to be sure it is a sarcoid she would need to take biopsy's etc and that could make it worse so left it at that, only thing is she noted it so insurance will not cover any sarcoid problems in the future!!
I didnt know anything about them before but must say I've looked on the internet and never heard about it spreading via the flies? it states that flies can irritate them and make them infected but I thought only if they were open wounds as such??
 
Okay, so probably best to just keep an eye on it then and just get vet to look at it when they do jabs - feel a bit better now!

Showqa, we may be best just monitoring then and then if they get worse, get vet out again. My last horse had one that was scabby, but it never got any worse, but this is why I thought all sarcoids started scabby, so was not worried about the lump on my TB's neck until tonight.
 
Hi Laura

On my horse it's about the size of a marble and under the skin - you can move it around under the skin. There's no sign of anything anywhere else (touching every bit of wood around me!) and this has grown in an area where he did have quite a few fly bites over the summer even though he was constantly rugged. He would worry the fly bite and not really let it heal quite as clearly as it might - hence I thought it was a bite that hadn't resolved.

My RI has been out tonight and I told her - she said that the vets often want to leave it alone these days, unless it really is bothersome or spreading. Thing is, do I want to wait until it spreads before attacking it???? Without a biopsy I know that the vet cannot be absolute in diagnosis - but as I said, the vet was pretty sure that it was. Classic location she said. I was thinking about banding it as it has a neck if you know what I mean.
 
Hi, My boy had one on the inside of his leg, the size of a walnut! the vet put a band around it and it just fell off, he didn't say anything about it spreading to other horses, and he's never had a problem since, although it's left a scar.
 
Oh okay, mine is very much flatter than this, but can understand your concern on yours. I personally would not touch anything myself, so would not band it. I would not touch it, and see if it gets worse. I think if it does get worse, the treatments are quite good these days. I'm not much help am I, sorry.:rolleyes:
 
My 4 year old just had hers removed on monday, It had been growing for the past 2 years , was the flatter type and although was harmless, I show my mare and appearance wise and because it was slowly getting bigger I thought best to sort it out now as she will be off for the winter .

On monday I had it surgically removed, vet said it was basically only on the surface of the skin and there was no core/base, so hopefully fingers crossed it will stay away .

Col x
 
Oh well that sounds good Colleen and yeah, if you're showing it is a big problem I understand. I don't show just compete dressage with him.
 
If your vet is happy to wait until the summer, why don't you contact Crossgates Farm (google them) and try the homeopathic route in the meantime? My grey mare has had several, and all have been sorted out that way. If you do it, be prepared to persevere, it took about 9 months for her largest lump to drop off.
 
Now is THE best time to treat sarcoids! They ARE spread by flies - I had one horse with one 'harmless' sarcoid which I left alone - and had SIX horses get sarcoids in the next 3 years!! Although I have about 70 horses - and half of them live out - the ones who got the sarcoids were ALL stabled near to the horse with the original sarcoid!

Leaving that original sarcoid alone has probably cost me around £2,000 in sarcoid treatments!! Needless to say it has now been removed!
 
showqa said:
Would welcome your advice/experiences.

My 7 year old gelding probably has a sarcoid. Vet said pound to a penny that's what it is. It's on the inside of his leg and certainly isn't a problem as such. So far the vet advises do nothing, monitor and review in the spring when if they're going to spread they will. Of course not happy that one has appeared, but also know that it's not the end of the world, won't necessarily spread and at such an early stage there are things that can be done. Just wondered what approaches you guys have taken when your horse's have developed them?

One thing that is a bit of a worry, I've heard that they shouldn't be allowed to mix with other horses for fear of flies passing on the virus? Well I have three equines and there is no way this horse can live apart from the other two - he would go spare. Thanks all.
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I havent read the replies so sorry if I repeat!

My horse had a small sacroid on this "private area" when he was 4. I was told to leave it and monitor which i did. When he was just over 5 is started to grow and change and the vet came out asap - I think this is very important to nip them in bud as soon as. He has swabs and pics takens and sent down to liverpool where he had chemo cream created for him and this was his course of treatment. The sacriod was treated as liverpools advice and it finally fell off in a one piece! I did also supplement him echinacha (sp!) in his feed as well as i wanted to boost his system to help him - I still do this every few months but just cos I like to not due to vet advice. There was just a tiny mark and now u cant even tell where it used to be! he hasnt had another one since - so I can say its def not end of the world.

I still check him for sights of sacriods and my vet checks him too when he gets flu jabs etc and now he is 13 and hasnt had another one since. I think by following your vets advice your doing the right thing. My horse stayed with his friends - and no other sacroids appeared. I have attached the liverpool vet sites info on sacroids and this is the definitive what you need to know.


http://www.liv.ac.uk/sarcoids/introduction/index.htm
 
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My experience is identical to Ems207, although Joes was treated as a 4 year old, he has a small scar on his sheath but is now aged 11 and has had no more problems. As Janet George saya - they are spread by flies and that is why I had mine treated asap.
 
Without a doubt I would treat sooner rather than later, and like JanetGeorge said, now is the best time to treat. Don't mess about with it and try anything on it that isn't recommended by the vet. Sarcoids can be truely horrible so getting them good vet treatment asap is the best plan.
 
My mare had 4 sarcoids and they were the 'flat' type so banding wasn't an option. I had the vet confirm the diagnosis, photos were taken and sent to Liverpool, cream applied and now they have all dropped off! :) I keep an eye on her and check all typical areas, ie inside of hind and fore legs and around her bum!! My advice would be get them sorted as quickly as possible and now is a good time. The cream from Liverpool is not that expensive but the application has to be done by a vet and this is were the cost goes up. Each visit to apply the cream cost me around the £100 mark so in total I spent about £800 and she was not insured!! Best money I have spent on her though so now I can show her next year. :) :)
 
Oh goodness no, I wouldn't ever interfere with it myself. When I was referring to banding I meant properly done by the vet, not by me.

Mmmm - she is insistent that we should wait until spring to see if more develop first as there is only the one right now. Do you think I should refer to another vet and see what they think?
 
showqa said:
Oh goodness no, I wouldn't ever interfere with it myself. When I was referring to banding I meant properly done by the vet, not by me.

Mmmm - she is insistent that we should wait until spring to see if more develop first as there is only the one right now. Do you think I should refer to another vet and see what they think?
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If the sacriod is dormant then leave it - its doing no harm. Any unneeded interfering with it is only going to aggrivate it - this is what you dont want. Once it starts to develop there is no knowing what treatment if any will work - and its only when it develops that the vets have the best idea of what treatment route to go down. Please just have a good read of the liverpool site and keep an eye on it.
 
I must be very unlucky (or very unobservent) as I have owned three horses with sarcoids. I have heard that flies can spread the virus but there was never a problem with cross infection with others in the field (my horses were kept in different countries and years inbetween each other).
It seems to be down to how strong the horses immune system is and in addition to consulting a vet, I would strongly suggest you try a holistic approach.
With Romeo (he was purchased as a two year old with one sarcoid on his sheath which rapidly developed into 9 sarcoids on his rear legs and sheath), we ringed the main sarcoid and gave him two liver detox treatments and fed Global Herbs Sarctex. Over 12 months all his sarcoids dried up and dropped off. 5 years later he is still sarcoid free. I have heard this is extremely unusual and if a horse naturally fights off sarcoids, they will not re occur.
Delta had a huge flat sarcoid on her chest following an fencing injury. We use the liverpool cream. Vile stuff which left a gaping hole in her chest but again, 8 years later, her new mum confirmed there is no re growth. Finally, I was literally given another pony which has a sarcoid on its eyelid. 4 months in and we have used the same liver detox and global herbs. The sarcoid is definately shrinking. I cant say it will work with every horse, this is a bit of an experiement! Good luck.
 
My Connemara developed a sarcoid on his belly right where the entrance to his penis was. We had the vet out and they got this strong smelling potion made up by Liverpool Veterinary Hospital (actually smelt like Vicks vapour rub) they banded the sarcoid and put the cream on, he was on bute for a day or 2 due to the potency of this cream, it burnt his sheath a bit went from black to pink. It didn't work first time round so they came back again, double banded it put the cream on again this time it did drop off with a bit of persuasion by the vet. It wasn't pleasant for Solo as he had to be sedated twice and put on bute for a couple of days, but we are sarcoid free and fingers crossed that's the end of it.
 
With my horse, who is in his mid-teens, I have had 3 sarcoids successfully treated with castration bands, and they have gone no problem. I treated about 5 mini ones with blood root ointment, and that cleared them.

The one on his face was treated with chemo-ish cream, and most of it went, however two little bits remained at either edge of it, and they are now re-growing :( The problem I have is that it is growing closer to his eye. I think it could be treated again, but his insurance doesn't cover sarcoids (as I bought him with one), and he suffered from depression as he couldn't be ridden for nearly 3 months whilst his facial sarcoid fell off. (I resorted to lunging in a headcollar tied funny with haystring so it didn't touch the sarcoid).

He also has one on his nose, which has been frozen twice, but this has not been successful, and it cannot be banded as it is fairly flat, and it cannot have cream as he'd lick it off.

I tried Global Herbs Sarcx but he didn't seem to get on with it very well, so I stopped it, as I felt he was allergic to it. I think I've run out of options?
 
We have just successfully treated with the Tuberculosis therapy that they developed at the Liverpool university. Three injections just like when you had Bcg jab at school. She had small sarcoidosis above eye and pea size on inside groin area. Both have shrunk away.
Basically it stimulates the immune system to create anti-bodies against the tuberculosis virus and whilst it's busy fighting that it also notices the sarcoid virus and thinks "hang on a mo- that shouldn't be there either and starts to fight that too" the sarcoidosis virus is very good at tricking the horses immune systems into thinking it is fine to be left and that,s how they are left to grow.

Anyway fingers crossed looks to have worked, vet reckons usually 70% ish successful.
Hope this helps
 
Wow muppet, that sounds like an interesting new development.

I've actually exchanged a couple of emails with Mr Knottenbelt (of Leahurst, Liverpool). He said that at this stage with a single, nodular sarcoid it may well be best to leave it and monitor over the winter, waiting until "the time is right" to do something with it. Then his explanation as to what is the right time confused me a bit I must say, but I think I'm going to call the vet and have a more in depth chat about it all as I know so much more about the subject now!
 
I've had experience with small warty sarcoids, and they have been successfully treated with bloodroot cream. It is significantly cheaper than liverpool cream, but does definitely work. I recommended it on here, and a few people have had success since.

I am a HUGE believer in the fact it is spread by flies. My horse developed one when he was on a yard with a fly problem, and a majority of the horses who were urned out developed them. Use Summer fly cream (it's bright yellow!) on the sarcoid to stop flies getting near it, and lesse the chance of it spreading to others :)
 
My boy has just finished treatment for 4 small verrucose and nodular sarcoids with Liverpool cream. My understanding is that flies can spread sarcoids within the sarcoid-affected horse, and in one that has a genetic predisposition to sarcoids (my horse's sire and brothers have them). As I understand it, interference can exacrebate the condition, and in my case I opted to go for the Liverpool cream, on vet's advice, as I am insured.My insurance only lasts for 12 months from the date the sarcoid(s) were first spotted though, so my advice would be to treat them, as per your vet's advice, asap! Best of luck with whatever you decide!
 
I really rate the bloodroot ointment, it works and they don't come back.
I had a mare with loads of nasty sarcoids for years, managed as best as I and the vet could manage (before bloodroot ointment was available), and none of my other horses ever got a sarcoid, so I don't think they were spread by flies, at least not on my yard.
 
I had my vet out a couple of weeks ago to check on my other horse. While he was there, I asked him to have a look at the lump on the girth area of my old gelding. He confirmed that it was a sarcoid. I said that I didn't want to put him through the stress of the Liverpool treatment, so he advised to either leave it as it wasn't bothering him or erupting, or if it grew, he would come back and band it. I decided to put manuka honey on it - don't know why really, but in a couple of weeks it has shrunk to about half the size - don't know whether it will clear up completely, but I won't be giving up on it! I just have to remember to wash it off before I ride him!
 
Manuka honey??

Bloodrot ointment - is that a potentially dangerous ointment to use, like the Liverpool cream? Do you need a vets authorisation?
 
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