Advice on accidental damage please

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emz-loves-orses

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Hi there! :)

am in a sticky situation and could do with some constructive advice from an impartial person(s)...

Have had a horse (from a non-local yard) on winter loan at a livery yard locally (i am one of 3 customers). Whilst there has been no turnout over winter, said horse has rolled in the stable and pushed a breeze block wall out of place. I noticed it 9 weeks ago and immediately reported it to yard owner in fear that it could drop over into the stable and injure the horse. I have replace my mats and bedding around the stable to help avoid the scenario.
As yet nothing has been done, owner is waiting for friend to see damage and quote me for fixing it. I was only made aware that i was to pay for damage just 10 days ago. I have now offered to fix myself, but owner insists it is thier choice to use the friend as they have building experience. I am up to date on all livery payments and there is no written agreement in place ( i realise this is foolish - now!).

I would like to clarify if i am responsible for accidental damage as the animal has done nothing out of the ordinary and the wall is, in my opinion, of weak design. If i am paying, surely i can use who i wish to repair? Where do i stand without a written agreement on a privately owned yard?

Thank you for taking the time to read this. I await any comments eagerly
 
Hmmm. Tricky one. Are you sure that your horse caused the damage by just rolling, ie did you see it happen? I wouldn't have thought that just having a roll would have damaged a breezeblock wall to that extent. With an extended period of no turnout the horse may have been far more agitated than normal and could have easily had a lengthy hissy fit that would have involved determined efforts to get over, through or round the wall. I would expect to repair any damage that my horse did such as damaging fencing by leaning over for grass, kicking 7 bells out of his door because tea was 5 mins late etc. But I would expect any healthy horse to have a roll in his stable so if the walls were so weak that a normal horse action damaged them, then I'd probably question it. Are all the walls a bit weak? Had you noticed this particular wall as wobbly before the incident? See what I mean? You need to try to pin down whether the wall was on its way out anyway, whether the damage was caused by an ordinary healthy horse activity or whether it was caused by highly unusual horse activity when your horse was fed up with being stabled.
 
I would want to know how old the wall was. If it was 20yrs+ then I would say it's fair wear and tear (cement eventually degrades and esp if wee soaked for years!, if quite new then probably would have to pay. But if I was paying then would expect to be able to DIY subject to YO being happy with the end result, or bringing in my own contractor. If that wasnt the case and YO got 'friend' to quote I would insist on a second independent quote, in case that was cheaper.

I do think a concrete stable wall should stand up to a horse rolling and would say YO should be covering at least 50% as the walls arent sounding like they are up to the job!
 
Thank you to both of you... This is certainly a subject which will have to be discussed with yard owner further, before completion of the deal. I really like the idea of a 50% split to take into account that the wall is less than 10yrs old but nothing has been done for over 2 months... we did not witness the origional incident so can not totally prove whether animal was overly stressed or maybe had a touch of colic in the small hours etc... In retrospect, to be fair, I did have a Belgian Draught in the same stable for a short time last year, even though he only stood in during the day, he may have weakened it first with a simple roll (he is just about a tonne in weight!!), leaving the blame for this 16.2 tb of slight build!! But it is reasonable to expect a breeze block wall to stand up to this use for horses as it is a common sight on many cattle farms! I have now compared it to the next door stable, and although there are no signs of structural weakness there, I do certainly believe there to be a fault in the design. By the by I will certainly be asking around for second quotes to get an idea of local pricings - it may work in everyone's favour! I feel much better now that I have what I believe to be a fair approach to the situation, and this should give me the confidence to suggest alternatives to the current plan.
Thanx again guys :)
 
I cannot believe that you think you are liable in any way for that wall. You have been paying for livery for a stable suitable to keep a horse in. If it can knock a wall down,it was never built properly. If anyone made a claim against me ,I would counterclaim for their failure to provide the facilities I paid for.If stable owners build them on the cheap,they must bear the cost of repair.
 
I would have thought that if you are paying for livery then the YO is liable. If you are staying there as a friendly non fee paying arrangement then I'd say that it is morally up to you to have the wall fixed. I also think that if you are the one to pay then you are within your rights to obtain quotes from whoever you choose - I'd say get 3 quotes in and then decided which to use. Fair enough if the YO's friend can do it for a competitive price but you have to have something to compare his quote with - don't just take his word for the price of the job. I have to say that I am surprised a breeze block wall would budge that easily - have a look at other walls on the yard to see what state they are in too. I also think that it is suspicious that you have only just been told that you are to pay for the work - surely if that was always the case then you would have been told that when you reported the problem at the start. I honestly think the YO is trying to pull a fast one - be as tough as you can (depending on how much you want/need to stay at the yard) and stand your ground. If you are a BHS member it may worth a quick to their legal helpline, or to any other body you are insured/covered with - you surely can't be the first 'tenant' to come across this sort of thing. Good luck with it all.
 
I would have thought you you should not be paying for this, unless the horse was very destructive.

The only time we have charged our liveries is when their horse escaped and attempted to jump a gate, failed and buckled it very badly. However the gate was fit for purpose, whereas a horse being able to kick a brick out would not be fit for purpose.

Additionally getting a mate to fix and expecting you to pay is not reasonable and should demand at least 3 quotes to make sure you are not being ripped off.
 
Can't see how you can possibly considered liable - and I would refuse to pay.

Oh, and would move somewhere where horses can go out.
 
I am a yard owner. As a yard owner I would be totally mortified if a wall of my stables could be moved by a horses rolling. I would immediately move that horse into another stable and get the wall repaired. My view would be that the walls were not good enough for horses and it was my own fault. it is definitely not your fault for having a horse roll that is perfectly natural. As a yard owner you have to accept that horses break things. I only charge my liveries if their horses do damage because of something the owner has done that no sane person should have done. Ie tying up to a gate - and the horse trashing the gate or feeding high energy feed to a horse on box rest that sends it loopy and causes it to trash the door/box etc.
 
One of my horses was on full livery and was tied up outside the stable when another horse got loose and galloped past his bum, he literally sat down and managed to pull the entire front section of the wooden stable out as the baler twine didn't break. Same horse same yard tied up to a hinge on a stable door (the instructions were not to tie him up unattended but everyoine was away competing and new mucker outer didn't know) first thing that snapped was the hinge and he took off with the door wrapped round his legs.

On neither occasion was i charged for the damage. I would be on the phone to my insuarnce company sharpish as you are paying for a stable suitable for a horse and the behaviors of that animal. Your YO should have moved your horse and sorted the problem months agao.
 
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