Advice on bits

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missyme10

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Hey all,

My daughter has just got a new pony, its very strong and forward going.
This is a particular problem jumping, he gets excited and races into his jumps.

The brakes aren't really effective !
I plan on doing a lot of pole work with him, and a lot of flat work around jumps to try and stop him anticipating jumping, this will certainly help.

But short term, an 8 year old on a pony with ineffective breaks is worrying.
He is currently ridden in a snaffle and has a running martingale. He's not one for dropping his head, but does tend to toss it up before a jump in excitement.

I think shorter term I have to look at the option of a stronger bit, but one that is also safe in the hands of an 8 year old child. The rider is fine on the basics, confident, and willing to try, she's got good hands, very steady and they dont flap around.

He has been ridden in a gag before, girl who was schooling him had to use it for jumping, if left to his own devices, he will gallop into a jump and out of it, this was how she got control, but she was a very good rider which you need to be to use a gag safely.

Any suggestions on what bit I could try, or if you need any further info on the pony or rider, I will provide more.

One other thing, this pony is absolutely fab in every other way, he's perfect, I would much rather find a solution than get a different pony, just needs more effective breaks.

Many thanks in advance xxx
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How about trying a hanging cheek snaffle and a kineton noseband? With any luck the gentle (enough, but not so much it should cause an argument) poll pressure from the bit, and the noseband giving a defintiely pressure to the front of the nose may mean no more head tossing, which will mean better control
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A kineton is a marvellous invention, as it works in the same way as you would stop a horse moving forward if it wasn't wearing a headcollar or bridle- notably by giving pressure directly to the front of the nose. In my opinion these nosebands are massively underrated
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Thanks, I've never actually heard of a kineton noseband - you learn something new every day !!

I'll have a look on the net, I would like to consider every option.

One way or another, I'm gonna find a solution, this pony is just 2 nice and perfect in every other way not to.

xxx
 
Hey, If the hanging cheek doesn't work, you can play with different mouthpieces - some ponies that dont listen to a straight bar will listen beautifully to a french link because of the different pressure areas in the tongue.

Failing all of these 'softer' options, when I was a kid i hunted and jumped in a pelham with a curb chain and it worked like a dream on my strong jumper, and my other pony was only stopable in a dutch gag. The only think i will say is that please please please use both the pelham and the gag with roundings and a lip strap with the pelham. You see so many people just use a bottom rein on the gag and it makes me wince as it is so severe. Just as long as, when you are trying out these bits ideally do it with your childs instructor who will be able to teach her the best way to use them.

The best way is probably going to be trial and error. Some big tack shops will do a 'bit bank' service where you can try before you buy. Failing this, i think there is a bit bank online where you can make sure you find the perfect bit!

Good luck
 
Hi missyme,

Thinking a little more lateral now....?? (While totally agreeing with Studentvet's comments, should you feel the need to use a pelham). But how's about calming pony down? Your ideas about poles will work far better than changing bits, is what i think. I'd walk him over them, then trot him over them, back to walk if he gets OTT, canter over them if he doesn't. Being very careful with distances - check with your trainer, lest you sue me!!

Let's think of it being like - no matter how good the brakes may be (ie strong bit), they ain't no use without the clutch + accelerator working together (ie sensitive riding from the leg), + it's down to feel. Like starting a car up hill, or keeping control downhill, without using brakes. Which is a tall order for an 8-yr-old.

My gut feel is that this pony has already been spoilt, from what you say, + an 8-yr-old isn't the right person to sort him, no matter how good she is. Correct me if i'm wrong (i hope i am), but it sounds like pony needs a double de-clutch driver; drive on engine, not on brakes. Hope that explains how i see it. Good luck, BS x

PS: How old is the pony? Sounds like he's mature?
 
The pony is 7, he's not strong because he's an arse, he loves his work, and would jump anything, he just gets excited about jumping. Thats why I know ground work with poles will help, but that takes time and patience, which I've got and plan to do for as long as it takes, but in the mean time, I deffo need to give her better brakes, and she needs them right now and the only option is a stronger bit for instant results.

I just dont like gags with kids, simply becasue if they use them wrong, they can cause horrendous pain to the pony. But I've been looking around and discovered a happy mouth gag, now that interests me. Knowing he'd have no metal in his mouth, only rubber, she couldn't probably be so harsh as to cut or damage his mouth, but at same time would have extra leverage - what do you think of this idea ?

I think student vet is right about having to play around with different bits to find the right one.

Brandysnap, I know exactly what ur saying and ur right, calming the pony down is the right way forward, but it takes time and I cant afford to have my daughter lose her confidence in the mean time.
 
When you say gag are you thinking of a dutch gag or a cheltnam gag?

I'd say definite no to a cheltnam gag for a child, a dutch gag is a popular choice, but why not try a wilkie first, it has a similar action to a dutch gag but is less harsh. Should give a little more brakes than a hanging cheek though. They are very popular with children and ponies.

I'd also be careful of happy mouth bits, the plastic can get chewed and rough and end up rubbing or even cutting the pony's mouth. If you buy one check it carefully and regularly, don't buy one of the pony chews the bit.
 
I've a pony already in a snaffle happy mouth, and I do check all the time as I know they can chomp on them, so would do the same. I've ordered a happy mouth 4 ring jointed gag, will try it out and see if it helps and if the pony is ok in it.
If not, I'll order something else, just hope I dont end up with half dozen bits lol x

The pony doesn't chew his bit, so it might work, I just prefer the idea of plastic in his mouth with my daughter only being 8, metal scares me if she was thrown back or similar and he takes a right yank on his mouth, plastic isn't as harsh as metal with a sudden yank.

Thanks x
 
Personally I really dislike dutch gags
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Sorry! They encourage the horse to have a high head carriage, and have a "woolly" action which can effect steering etc. I would go onto cotswoldsports website, they have a happy mouth universal which has a bit of gag action, but with less leverage than a dutch gag.
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I quite like (for horses who ar ejust a bit keen!) pelhams.... but I have generally ridden in these in stronger horses......

if you daughter cant ride with 2 reins (totally understandable im 22 and only learnt how to when I was 18!) D loops meaning only 1 rein still means she will get the good brakes!

I agree the groundwork is good. Altering mouth pieces etc will be milder changes which she might just need for that added wo aspect..... but if you did change bit I prefer a pelham as they are (I feel) very good versatile bits.

good luck
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lol yeah one reign is enough for her right now, she'd just get confused with 2!

If this happy mouth gag doesn't work, I think a pelham will be my next choice, something has to give her better brakes, without driving him mad. Just even a bit better will do. With her only being 8, she's limited in physical strength, although no wimp by any standards. She has to pull almost her hardest to get him to stop in his existing eggbutt snaffle, and it will effect her confidence I think. He's forward going but I dont think that phases her, its him not stopping when asked that is bothering her.

Also, her other pony bolts off with her, she's a nightmare, so that is stuck in her mind also - the reason I have got this new pony - she's getting a stronger bit and my backside on her to solve that one.

You get horses with soft mouths and not so soft, maybe he's been ridden in a harsh bit when youger and his mouth is no longer soft, maybe previous owner didn't go down the pole work route x
 
A kimblewick would have a curb action and only one rein, they are also popular for strong ponies for jumping and hunting.

You could probably get a rubber or vulcanite one as you prefer not to have metal.
 
When I was a child my pony went very well in a kimblewick. They come in metal, vulcanite or rubber and are suitable for small children to ride with. As you say while the pony may need reschooling, an 8 year old needs to be safe now and obviously wants to be able to ride the pony. I am sure that once they have come to an arrangement the pony will look after her with or without schooling.
 
Hi again, Missyme,

I realise how difficult it is, this whole bit discussion, + how worried you are about your little girl, when both of them are running off with her..... (maybe there's a pattern here?)

You refer to her 'strength'?

Oh eck, without going into 4 hours of how horses are ridden correctly.....

May i very politely suggest that you don't use a strong bit, but rather that you use a strong trainer (ie nice local person, with good local recommendations) instead? And leave them both to it? So that the little lady learns to ride safely?

Re Kimblewicks (hi oldvic, no offence intended, + respect knowledge x) - but a very famous trainer once broke her pony's jaw out hunting in a Kimblewick in 1960s, was mortified + warned us lot who she was training, in 80s, about its strength. She learnt from that. And i remember.

I'd get advice from a good local trainer, Missyme, who i hope will agree that the bit is the last thing to look at. My first question would be to your daughter is 'do you enjoy riding?'
Reading all posts, maybe she doesn't want to. I hope i'm wrong, + we get her advice on bits. I for one want to hear what she thinks! And i sincerely wish that she enjoys her hosses! Let's hear it from her.
Sincere best wishes to all youngsters, BS X
 
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