Advice on feeding an oldie needed please.

marmalade76

marmalade76

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A friend of mine owns a sec C who is rising 32 and losing his teeth. She has stuggled to keep weight on him for the last couple of years. I have just spoken to her on the phone and she says he looks awful ATM as he has dropped loads of weight. She stopped feeding him when the grass came through as she thought he would do OK but he hasn't and she's had to start feeding him again, but he is not picking up. Her other pony, 31 (second from right in sig) is looking really well on the same grazing.

I asked what she is feeding him and she said mollichop and high fibre cubes with a handful of bran, twice a day. He is not having any supplements and he scours on and off and has tablets from the vet for this. I said that I didn't think that mollichop would do him any good and that he would be better off on something like Alfa A Oil and some Pink Powder as this might help with the scouring. Part of the trouble is that she is on a limited budget which, I think, is the reason she is feeding what she is.

I did suggest a few months back that maybe it's time to think about having him PTS, but she says he is well in himself, canters down to the gate when he sees her. She has owned him more than twenty years, so it is understandable that she is reluctant to think about it.

I am no expert on feeding, especially when it comes to really old codgers, but I do feel that what she is feeding him is just not enough. I am going to visit next weekend and want to go armed with some sound advice. I used to ride this pony myself a fair few years ago and don't want to see him suffer. Any advice would be much appreciated, thanks in advance.
 
Mollichop has no nutritional value so she is infact wasting money on this. Alfalfa is a much better source of fibre and protein (older horses cant absorb protein as well as they used to) if her pony can manage to chew it. You can buy Alfalfa pellets but for me the cheapest way of feeding highly digestable fibre is by feeding sugar beet.

I would say that if the owner stopped feeding due to the flush of grass and the pony is still losing weight then there is either a dental problem or digestive problem so I would advise a visit from an EDT, soakable feeds and a good pre/probiotic. Pink Powder is great and stopped my mare scouring. If the pony scours then I would remove the bran too.

I would feed as much fibre as possible and get advice from the free helplines offered by the feed companies.

My pony is 14hh and I was advised to feed her 7kg of fibre replacer based on her height and ideal weight when she teeth problems.

Sugarbeet should be measured by dry weight and not soaked.
To summarise, some good and cheap feeds to help would be:

Sugar beet (unmollassed preferable £5-10 approx)
Micronised Linseed (1 mug a day - 25kg sack around £30. Calorie dense feed and an anti - inflammatory)


You could add some grass nuts too. Cheap and can be soaked to a mash. I was advised that if a horse can eat chop then some form of chop will benefit. A great nutritional chop for those with teeth problems would be Happy Hoof.

Again, have a word with the feed companies, it is free and Dengie have a great Hay replacer fact sheet which may help :)
 
My elderly arab suffered like this in 2008. I refuse to feed commercial stuff as I want to know exactly what he's getting. I have adopted the following diet and he looks amazing. He is also now on this instead of hay due to dental problems.

Fast fibre (hay replacer)
Speedibeet (hay replacer fibre)
Copra (good for conditioning)
Brewers yeast (for vits and mins and good for gut)
Yea Sacc (good for gut absorption and scouring)
Micronised Linseed (conditioning, omega oils and anti-inflammatory)
Seaweed (vits)
Magnesium Oxide (to assist in absorption of vits and mins)
Wheat brean meal aka "Thirds" (v good for weight and they love it)
Limestone flour (extra calcium to be fed with the Thirds)
Mint (for digestion and taste)

If you friend prefers to feed a commercial mix then I know alot of peole with oldies really rate Soft n Soak products such as Ready Mash Extra. A friend of a friend has a 36 year old Warmblood on this and he does very well.

It goes without saying that the old horse's teeth will need checking at least every six months. I left mine a bit too long at the beginning of the year due to other problems. He looked quite poor and it was amazing how he put the weight back on after his teeth had been redone.
 
I agree with Oberon, cut out the commercial stuff. My old boy is thriving since I have changed his diet. He now has:

Speedibeet
Fast Fibre
Alfa-A Oil
Micronised Linseed
Brewers Yeast
Seaweed
Mag Ox
Mint

All my horses (a varied range of shapes/sizes/age) are fed the same (except the Alfa-A Oil) - 'tis just tweeked a little according to roundness:D
 
As others have said, relatively cheap feeds that can be soaked are alfalfa nuts (much cheaper than chaff for the same weight), grass nuts and sugar beet. Leave the pony with a bucket full at all times. Brewers yeast will help no end too.
 
Sugar beet/Speedi beet and linseed are great, and the latter is very economic if you can buy straight linseed and cook it overnight in the bottom of a Rayburn/Aga. Horses love its smell, and stirred into the rest of the feed makes it all slip down very easily. Old horses can get by well on 'slops'. As others have said, the helplines of major feed companies are very useful, but their advice can be expensive. Hope you can help your friend.
 
What about Blue Chip Build up Cubes? You could try soaking them if the horse struggles to eat it. Also, soya oil is good for weight gain.
 
marmalade76 said:
A friend of mine owns a sec C who is rising 32 and losing his teeth. She has stuggled to keep weight on him for the last couple of years. I have just spoken to her on the phone and she says he looks awful ATM as he has dropped loads of weight. She stopped feeding him when the grass came through as she thought he would do OK but he hasn't and she's had to start feeding him again, but he is not picking up. Her other pony, 31 (second from right in sig) is looking really well on the same grazing.

I asked what she is feeding him and she said mollichop and high fibre cubes with a handful of bran, twice a day. He is not having any supplements and he scours on and off and has tablets from the vet for this. I said that I didn't think that mollichop would do him any good and that he would be better off on something like Alfa A Oil and some Pink Powder as this might help with the scouring. Part of the trouble is that she is on a limited budget which, I think, is the reason she is feeding what she is.

I did suggest a few months back that maybe it's time to think about having him PTS, but she says he is well in himself, canters down to the gate when he sees her. She has owned him more than twenty years, so it is understandable that she is reluctant to think about it.

I am no expert on feeding, especially when it comes to really old codgers, but I do feel that what she is feeding him is just not enough. I am going to visit next weekend and want to go armed with some sound advice. I used to ride this pony myself a fair few years ago and don't want to see him suffer. Any advice would be much appreciated, thanks in advance.
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It depends on the reason for the weight loss tbh.If the horse is suffering from cushings then the advice is crucially different to a horse that is not suffering from cushings. The likelihood is that at 32 there is some element of cushings.The problem with cushings is they dont always show all of the signs. If she wants to keep going she needs to test for cushings so she can feed correctly and make an informed decision.
 
dozzie said:
It depends on the reason for the weight loss tbh.If the horse is suffering from cushings then the advice is crucially different to a horse that is not suffering from cushings. The likelihood is that at 32 there is some element of cushings.The problem with cushings is they dont always show all of the signs. If she wants to keep going she needs to test for cushings so she can feed correctly and make an informed decision.
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Good point - agreed.
 
Sorry in a hurry so haven't had time to read all the other responses..... but my 34 yr old was dropping weight last autumn as her teeth are now pretty useless. She would ball up graas and horsehage in her mouth and then spit out. Now she's on freely available dengie hifi senior (in bucket in her paddock as well as stable). Feed with sugar beet if he won't eat it on it's own. Has made all the difference and she came out of the winter well and has been good all summer. Hope that helps.
 
Went to see friend and pony today - he really does look bad (think Carrot and Spud but the less poor of the two :eek:). But he did neigh and trot over to us when he saw us.

He does not have cushings, he has been tested and the vet says there is nothing wrong with him, it's just old age.

Anyway, after our phone conversation last week she had been to the feed shop and bought him some Pink Powder, Alfa-A and some Calm & Condition, the latter because that's what the girl in the shop recommended. Personally, I would not have gone for this as I have used it before myself and was not overly impressed and told friend so.

I watched as she mixed him a feed which consisted of approx (guessing here by the size of scoops, I have measured how much of each feed my scoops hold so have a fair Idea of what a lb & KG look like) 1lb of cubes (she wants to finish these off before starting the C&C), a double handful of bran, 1lb of Alfa-A and 1lb of Hifi Senior. She put this in one of those plastic Stubbs corner mangers and this feed only really covered the bottom of it. I said this wasn't enough, so she put more of both chops in until the manger was half full. I did say that bran was probably not a good idea unless it had been suggested by the vet and she said one handful won't do him any harm and she might aswell finish the sack!

The pony takes ages to eat his meals, (seems to enjoy it and eats with enthusiasm!) so he is put in a paddock by himself during the day so he can eat at his own pace without being robbed by the others. He had been in this paddock all day when we got there at half past four and there was only one poo! It was fairly solid though.

He cannot eat hay, it just balls up and he spits it out and I am wondering if he now has the same trouble with grass - there was plenty of good grass there. I tried to say that he needs A LOT more than she is feeding him, but I think it's hard for her to comprehend as she has had a lifetime of feeding good doers and fighting lami. I said he needs as much chop as he will eat and she said she thinks that much would give him colic. I tried to put it another way by saying that he needs a haynet in a bucket if he can't eat hay (inserts tearing hair out smilie here!)

I think he is basicly starving because he has virtually no teeth now. I'm trying to be very tactful as this is a very good friend who did lots for me when I was a kid, she loaned me a pony and took me to shows and PC and made my dreams come true! But I really am having a hard time getting through to her just how much feding this poor old pony needs. Agghh!
 
Buy her a book on care of the elderly horse.

My local equine college runs a short course in it.

Dr Kellon does an online course in Nutrition for the Older Horse too.
 
marmalade76 said:
He cannot eat hay, it just balls up and he spits it out and I am wondering if he now has the same trouble with grass - there was plenty of good grass there. I tried to say that he needs A LOT more than she is feeding him, but I think it's hard for her to comprehend as she has had a lifetime of feeding good doers and fighting lami. I said he needs as much chop as he will eat and she said she thinks that much would give him colic. I tried to put it another way by saying that he needs a haynet in a bucket if he can't eat hay (inserts tearing hair out smilie here!)
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I agree. It was providing the hifi on an ad lib basis that made the difference for my mare.
 
We have just spoken on the phone again and I have managed to convince her that he needs at least 7KG of feed per day (nearly half a sack) and to weigh it to make sure, split into three feeds.

He will be having Alfa-A, Hifi Senior and A&P C&C with some Pink Powder. I have said that once the C&C is running out to introduce sugar beet and soaked grass nuts instead as these will be better for him and cheaper. She is horrified at the thought of how much it's going to cost to feed him nearly half a sack of feed a day, but needs must.

Many thanks for all you advice.
 
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