advice on going barefoot behind

AFlapjack

AFlapjack

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Pony had back shoes taken off 24th of November so has only been barefoot behind for approx. 6 weeks. In the 6 weeks I have only ridden him on roads probably 5 times.

Recently he has been feeling very footy on the roads and when asked to trot feels very choppy and on the forehand wanting to walk. He won't stride forward and wants to walk along at a snail's pace and walk on any grass verge he can. :(

The weird thing is he doesn't look lame when trotted up but I can feel he's not right. On grass he is fine and enjoyed taking off with me today in the field :rolleyes:

I'm wondering whether it is actually worth keeping his shoes off? Have I given him enough time to adjust? He has been out 24/7 during the winter holiday and we had snow for about a week. Could the snow have weakened his feet? Is there anything I should do to help strengthen them?

He is fed ad lib hay and a hard feed once a day of a scoop of Hifi, cup of H&P nuts, balancer and NAF Superflex.

Any ideas or advice welcome.
 
If he feels a bit sore i would have the shoes put back on. My mare only has fronts on but she doesnt hack out. In the summer we have hinds put on for stud holes.
 
Nigsha - Thank you. Something like NAF Rock Hard?

Loulou2002 - I feel I may have to put them back on. He's coming back to Uni with me at the end of January and won't be doing any roadwork till the end of April as it's all on surface apart from the main yard so might try and leave them off till then?
 
6 weeks is no time at all really - personally I wouldn't be so quick to put shoes back on - the feet need time to adjust. My boy is barefoot all round now, but I started with the backs first. The backs have been off for about 21 weeks now and are looking good and my farrier says his soles are nice and hard, he will sometimes choose to go on the grass verges though.

I rode out on the road for the first time in weeks today and he was fine.

Transitioning takes time.
 
I would also give him a bit more time, i got mine some hoof boots as the going is really stony when we hack out here and they made a huge difference. :)
 
Serephin said:
6 weeks is no time at all really - personally I wouldn't be so quick to put shoes back on - the feet need time to adjust. My boy is barefoot all round now, but I started with the backs first. The backs have been off for about 21 weeks now and are looking good and my farrier says his soles are nice and hard, he will sometimes choose to go on the grass verges though.

I rode out on the road for the first time in weeks today and he was fine.

Transitioning takes time.
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Thanks Serephin. Is there anything you could recommend that will help or will he just be a bit footsore on the roads until his feet have adjusted? If I do less roadwork would that help? Or would it do the opposite and his feet will take longer to adjust?

Allover - Thank you. I never thought of hoof boots!
 
I had the back shoes removed from my horse in September, as he kept losing shoes and my farrier and I decided it was worth a try.
I used Keratex hoof hardener for the first month. In this time his gait on roads did become choppy and he found it uncomfortable to trot. He found it obviously painful to walk on rocky or gravelly surfaces. I kept him on verges as much as possible and avoided stony paths. He wasn't in desperate pain though as he is an opinionated horse and would have let me know by napping etc that he didn't want to be ridden, and he remains keen. His feet looked awful as the old frog shedded - it peels like an onion! You don't see it on shod horses as the farrier trims the dead skin off when he trims the hoof for shoe fitting. I sought advice and had the feet checked regularly by my farrier who told me to keep going, it takes a while because the frog sort of changes shape. After not riding in the ice and snow for 4 weeks I brought him back into work on 30th Dec, hacking out 6 days in a row and he is showing no signs of discomfort on the roads whatsoever, in fact he is not asking to go on verges and is very very happy. His feet now look like 'proper' barefoot feet. They have been warmer in the snow than his fronts and so have not suffered from packed ice, making him steadier on his feet. He now strides confidently down steep hills as his back feet have grip. Plus he hasn't thrown a shoe since and no longer has to wear overreach boots for turnout.
So keep going with it, if you are willing to wait. It has taken 4 months for my horses' feet to adjust, and fingers crossed they are fine now.
 
If you can get hold of any Easyboot gloves they are the best ones i have come across, have used the Old Macs too but i find them a bit "clumpy" (though they did the job very well).
 
Probably feels choppy because he's shod on opposite diagonals in trot. Must be odd for him, too. Give him longer to adjust. This time of year hoof growth is slow and it may also be the wetness underfoot keeping his feet softer?
 
noblesteed said:
I had the back shoes removed from my horse in September, as he kept losing shoes and my farrier and I decided it was worth a try.
I used Keratex hoof hardener for the first month. In this time his gait on roads did become choppy and he found it uncomfortable to trot. He found it obviously painful to walk on rocky or gravelly surfaces. I kept him on verges as much as possible and avoided stony paths. He wasn't in desperate pain though as he is an opinionated horse and would have let me know by napping etc that he didn't want to be ridden, and he remains keen. His feet looked awful as the old frog shedded - it peels like an onion! You don't see it on shod horses as the farrier trims the dead skin off when he trims the hoof for shoe fitting. I sought advice and had the feet checked regularly by my farrier who told me to keep going, it takes a while because the frog sort of changes shape. After not riding in the ice and snow for 4 weeks I brought him back into work on 30th Dec, hacking out 6 days in a row and he is showing no signs of discomfort on the roads whatsoever, in fact he is not asking to go on verges and is very very happy. His feet now look like 'proper' barefoot feet. They have been warmer in the snow than his fronts and so have not suffered from packed ice, making him steadier on his feet. He now strides confidently down steep hills as his back feet have grip. Plus he hasn't thrown a shoe since and no longer has to wear overreach boots for turnout.
So keep going with it, if you are willing to wait. It has taken 4 months for my horses' feet to adjust, and fingers crossed they are fine now.
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Glad to hear his feet are much improved :) I think I will get some hoof hardener and keep rides on the road short and steady. I wasn't sure how long it would take for his hooves to readjust so was in a bit of a panic, at least now I know it takes quite a while.

Allover said:
If you can get hold of any Easyboot gloves they are the best ones i have come across, have used the Old Macs too but i find them a bit "clumpy" (though they did the job very well).
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Thank you :)


brighteyes said:
Probably feels choppy because he's shod on opposite diagonals in trot. Must be odd for him, too. Give him longer to adjust. This time of year hoof growth is slow and it may also be the wetness underfoot keeping his feet softer?
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I never thought of that! Poor boy :o His field is quite boggy now that the snow has melted so I will definitely get some hoof hardener. Thanks :)
 
Could he also be a bit footy because of the frozen ground recently, I know ours, who have all been without shoes for over 18 months, are avoiding the rutted parts of the fields because it bothers their feet and are only really comfortable on soft ground at the moment. If you are going to be riding on a surface until the end of April then it is worth persevering really and then make a decision after that.
 
hch4971 said:
Could he also be a bit footy because of the frozen ground recently, I know ours, who have all been without shoes for over 18 months, are avoiding the rutted parts of the fields because it bothers their feet and are only really comfortable on soft ground at the moment. If you are going to be riding on a surface until the end of April then it is worth persevering really and then make a decision after that.
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We haven't really had frozen ground; it snowed and stayed on the ground for about a week and then melted so the ground is really soft and boggy now. I think I will definitely carry on and re-think the situation at the end of April. Thanks for the reply :)
 
I hope you don't think i'm taking over your thread Aliceflapjack, but very interested in your thread and in a similar situation, one of my horses has been out of work for about two years and unshod in all of this time, i plan on binging him back into work this spring. Before his break off work he was always shod and competiting in s-jumping, i want to try bringing him back into work unshod, but unsure if it is wise because for any sort of off road hacking here I have to do quite a bit of tarmac road work, and if it's not tarmac the off road hacking is very stoney!! Would i be wise in trying him without shoes or just get him shod for safety sake because of my riding out I have available which is all hard tarmac/concrete surface? which i really want to ride out on because the hills here are fantastic for fitness.

Sorry once again Aprilflapjack but sounds like we are in a similar situation xxx
 
LucyPriory said:
Dominica from a slipping point of view it is safer to ride an unshod horse on tarmac and concrete than a shod one.
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Strongly agree with Lucy here.

Also, I'd use hoof boots if the horse is a bit footy, especially this time of year when the hoof doesn't grow very fast, and if you are not in a position to do plenty of exercise with the horse.
 
dominica said:
do you think my horse would be sore to begin with on the hard surface even after being barefoot all this time?
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Hard to say, my own experience is that tarmac is excellent for hardening up the hooves. I started off walking out for half an hour or so for a few days, gradually building up the distance out. After a couple of weeks the job was sorted.
 
AliceFlapjack said:
Thanks Serephin. Is there anything you could recommend that will help or will he just be a bit footsore on the roads until his feet have adjusted? If I do less roadwork would that help? Or would it do the opposite and his feet will take longer to adjust?
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I found that my boy was okay on tarmac, it was more the stones that he could feel which made him seem footy. I just let him go on the verge if he wanted to. I did hire some hoofboots for his backs (Old Macs) and he went fine in them, but I found he didn't really need them if I was careful where we went. If he wants to walk on the grass I let him.

When he had them first taken off he was perfectly fine - then I did a sponsored ride and there was a really stoney track at the start of the ride and at the end, with big pointy stones, he was very footsore after that! It was impossible to avoid them, I felt very bad. It took some time for him to stop being over cautious after that. He had some bruising to his frogs due to the stones, but the frogs do adjust - much like our feet would if we walked everywhere barefoot.

What was interesting was that my farrier showed me where his frogs had bruising on his fronts, which were shod at the time, caused by stones, but because he was shod it was far less apparent as the frog was not in contact with the ground as much. Made me wonder how much shoes cover up. But now he is unshod at the front, the frogs are getting stronger and wider as they adjust to doing the job they are designed for.

Roadwork stimulates the blood flow in the foot and helps with growth, but to begin with it would be wise to no overdo it - listen to your horse, he will tell you how he is feeling. I always try to remember to check the digital pulse as well, as this will tell you if there is pain in the foot - if it is pounding or strong.
 
Ás far as i am aware the horses diet can play a big part in the quality of the horses feet and i am sure someone on here will be able to tell you more about that that i can :)
 
Just a little update:
Farrier came this morning and has said he's worn his hind feet down to the sole so has had his shoes put back on. :( Poor boy. I feel awful.
 
Don't feel bad! Hooves are designed to wear, and especially if he wasn't used to the abrasion on his hooves then they will wear more at first.
If he wasn't sore then there is no prob - just follow what your horse tells you, he knows best!
Ours have their walls pretty much flush with their soles, the work they do keeps them like that and they now they are used to the work (building up gradually) they are perfectly comfortable.
 
Unfortunately he had been feeling a bit footy on the roads so that's why I feel bad! :( I was ignorant and thought he would be slightly sore because he hasn't been barefoot before.
 
AliceFlapjack said:
Unfortunately he had been feeling a bit footy on the roads so that's why I feel bad! :( I was ignorant and thought he would be slightly sore because he hasn't been barefoot before.
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Don't beat yourself up! Ours were both footy for a while, we just adjusted their work and kept to what they were comfortable with - one is now happy over all surfaces (4 months of shoes off) and the other is good on most apart from hard jaggy surfaces (shoes off just over 1 month). I'm afraid initially both were short striding over tarmac, so it has just been a case of giving them time and work that doesn't make them worse. It is different with each horse.
 
ThePony said:
Don't beat yourself up! Ours were both footy for a while, we just adjusted their work and kept to what they were comfortable with - one is now happy over all surfaces (4 months of shoes off) and the other is good on most apart from hard jaggy surfaces (shoes off just over 1 month). I'm afraid initially both were short striding over tarmac, so it has just been a case of giving them time and work that doesn't make them worse. It is different with each horse.
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Thank you. I'm at Uni at the moment so wasn't with him when he was shod this morning but farrier said over the phone it was either 'shoes on and ride him, or keep shoes off and do very limited work with no road work'. I would have loved him to eventually go barefoot but think pony has other ideas! :D Funnily enough my brother's pony had her hind shoes taken off the same time and she is doing great! Typical! :rolleyes:
 
AliceFlapjack said:
Just a little update:
Farrier came this morning and has said he's worn his hind feet down to the sole so has had his shoes put back on. :( Poor boy. I feel awful.
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Alice it is obvious you care deeply about your horse and big hugs to you for that. Please don't feel offended by the rest of this post, or that it is aimed at you. I just felt the need to comment as this is such a common scenario and one that is in my view extremely unfortunate.

Wearing down to the sole isn't necessarily a problem. There are horses out there with very flat feet, who are perfectly comfortable. What is needed is an eye for what is appropriate and what is reflecting an unhealthy hoof. A flat foot is not necessarily an unhealthy one.

There are lots of reasons why a horse will be footsore initially when newly deshod. A good hoof care professional will be able to advise what/why/when and give you strategies to manage, without putting on shoes.

Unfortunately a shoe will mask the problem, but not cure it. So if your horse is sore because their feet are in poor condition, have sub clinical laminitis, thin soles etc etc, the horse won't feel it so much because of the shoe, but the problem is there and may be getting worse.

Too much work on a newly bare hoof, too soon can be a problem as the hooves need time to adjust the amount and quality of horn they put down. Which is one reason why people use boots during the transition phase.

Relatively few horses today have genuinely stonkingly fabulously healthy hooves. I don't wish to offend, but this is my everyday working life experience.

Those that go bare successfully are the exceptions. I generally find 2 out of 3 make it. Some of the remaining 1 out of three stay bare, but with some degree of compromise. The successful 2 (out of three) generally have hard working horses which some choose to compete in a variety of disciplines. Others hack for miles and miles over all sorts of horrible terrain and get on just great.

What connects the 2's - they have all had to make adjustments and change their point of view about how they work and feed their horses. Generally feed less and work more.

And they have learnt to appreciate the hoof as a window to the horse's overall health, to respect that and not to compromise health for the sake of convenience.

I don't mean to come across as harsh or critical of anyone. I am just off loading my general experience - and I've been a barefooter for over 15 years now and in my time I'm sure I've made the same mistakes as everyone else, so I have every sympathy for people that struggle. Heck when I started the internet didn't exist and there were no books so to my eternal shame I probably made more mistakes than most.

Thank the universe that horses are so forgiving and their hooves so brilliant at recovering given the right conditions.
 
LucyPriory said:
Alice it is obvious you care deeply about your horse and big hugs to you for that. Please don't feel offended by the rest of this post, or that it is aimed at you. I just felt the need to comment as this is such a common scenario and one that is in my view extremely unfortunate.

Wearing down to the sole isn't necessarily a problem. There are horses out there with very flat feet, who are perfectly comfortable. What is needed is an eye for what is appropriate and what is reflecting an unhealthy hoof. A flat foot is not necessarily an unhealthy one.

There are lots of reasons why a horse will be footsore initially when newly deshod. A good hoof care professional will be able to advise what/why/when and give you strategies to manage, without putting on shoes.

Unfortunately a shoe will mask the problem, but not cure it. So if your horse is sore because their feet are in poor condition, have sub clinical laminitis, thin soles etc etc, the horse won't feel it so much because of the shoe, but the problem is there and may be getting worse.

Too much work on a newly bare hoof, too soon can be a problem as the hooves need time to adjust the amount and quality of horn they put down. Which is one reason why people use boots during the transition phase.

Relatively few horses today have genuinely stonkingly fabulously healthy hooves. I don't wish to offend, but this is my everyday working life experience.

Those that go bare successfully are the exceptions. I generally find 2 out of 3 make it. Some of the remaining 1 out of three stay bare, but with some degree of compromise. The successful 2 (out of three) generally have hard working horses which some choose to compete in a variety of disciplines. Others hack for miles and miles over all sorts of horrible terrain and get on just great.

What connects the 2's - they have all had to make adjustments and change their point of view about how they work and feed their horses. Generally feed less and work more.

And they have learnt to appreciate the hoof as a window to the horse's overall health, to respect that and not to compromise health for the sake of convenience.

I don't mean to come across as harsh or critical of anyone. I am just off loading my general experience - and I've been a barefooter for over 15 years now and in my time I'm sure I've made the same mistakes as everyone else, so I have every sympathy for people that struggle. Heck when I started the internet didn't exist and there were no books so to my eternal shame I probably made more mistakes than most.

Thank the universe that horses are so forgiving and their hooves so brilliant at recovering given the right conditions.
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Thank you for your reply. I will admit to the fact I know very little about horses feet bar general knowledge and because I am away from home at the moment I put my trust into my farrier's opinion and got him re-shod.

I have had many different ponies in the years I've been riding (15 years - the time you've been a barefooter!). Some have been shod all round, some had just fronts or others, totally barefoot and I didn't think anything of it. The main reason I took Jack's hind shoes off was because we were putting him and my brother's pony in the same field and didn't want them hurting each other if they kicked. Ultimately, yes, I would love Jack to go barefoot but at the moment I am not knowledgeable enough to know which route is best to take and for the 4 years I've owned him he hasn't had trouble with his feet (touch wood!) and I've always tried to make sure his diet is balanced and high fibre, low sugar. I've always thought of Jack as having fairly good feet but then again, I really only know the bog standard stuff when it comes to hooves so could be totally wrong!

Thanks again for your reply, it's very interesting to hear and hopefully in the near future I will be able to sort out Jack's feet and do what's best for him.
 
Hi Alice

It's a real journey, but when you have the time to make it, you may find yourself just saying 'wow, wow, wow!'. I still do, after all these years. And just sometimes I feel like banging my head on the wall with frustration, but that is another story!

For an idea of how/why shoes are able to mask problems have a look at this.

http://barefoothorseblog.blogspot.com/2011/01/thermography-blood-supply-shod-v-unshod.html

Although I pinched from facebook, the image was originally produced by a vet and I think it is a vet's face book page I nicked it from, but I don't speak spanish.
 
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