Advice on how to ride properly.

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Little Fat Pony

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Hi

I'm not very good at explaining things, but hopefully you'll be able to understand, sorry if not. :)

I have a 5 year old thoroughbred, who I backed myself last year, and he then had a year off, due to various reasons. He has now been back in work since the end of July. I'm just hacking him out, in walk only, to build up his fitness.

However I really really want to train him properly, to use his hind end properly and therefore to create a real outline, not just pull his head in. He is very forward going, and has a lovely soft mouth so I don't want to ruin him.

I went for our first lesson today, and the instructor spent half an hour telling me to basically "saw" at the reins to make it seem like he is in an outline.

Now, I am most definitely not the most experienced of riders, I'm 17 and before buying my horse two years ago, I'd only ever ridden in a riding school, where all the horses we're brilliant, and knew what they were doing. Now I'm in a situation where I want to do the right thing with my horse, but I don't know how to implement it, and I'm feeling really disheartened that a highly recommended instructor from my area, was more bothered about giving the appearance that my horse was in an outline, rather than working properly from behind.

I'm in quite a remote area, and I don't have transport so this is the only instructor I can go to. I already discussed with her what I think, and she said that as he's young, and untrained, it's easier to get him to hold his head properly and then ask him to work properly from behind etc, whereas I have always been taught that a correct outline is a product of a horse working correctly. (I hope this is making sense :o )

Anyway, my question is how can I encourage my horse to work correctly, without forcing his head in? It seems I won't be able to have lessons, till I can get transport, or till I can find an instructor who will travel.

Have I got it totally wrong? I want to do the best thing for my horse, but I would prefer to aim for him working correctly, with his nose behind/above the vertical, than his head being perfectly placed but his hind end stretching out all over the place.

Please help, and no I'm not a troll. :o
 
Side reins have got nothing to do with it, nor have any other gadgets...

Whereabouts are you? May be able to recommend a better instructor.

Heather moffetts book is really helpful, lots of pics which really help u visualise.

Creating a true outline is about slowing things down until you have the power and balance underneath you to do more :)
 
I'm in Lancashire Tiger Tail :)

I have never used any gadgets on him, he did get lunged and long reined before I backed him, and even now once in a while I'll long rein him to see how he moves without a rider.

I'll try and get a copy of that book, thanks.

I've been doing to some searching on the internet and might join Sylvia Lochs website - is anyone else a member? :)
 
where are you based, there are many trainers in weird places around the country! and many places to look! bd website, bhs, may be even a local rc? and most trainers are often willing to travel for a small travel fee!

i understand exaclty what you mean, and i constantly aim for my horse to work properly or 'classically' as i think this is the best way for the horse to work. i am very fortunate that my trainer works along these lines! i find the older trainer trains more classically!
 
Borrow or buy a book by Philippe Karl called the Twisted Truth of Modern Dressage. It explains the whole contact and outline thing really well and will help make sense of how the horse works and the contradictions which you have already recognised in how you are being encouraged to ride your horse. There should be be some stuff on YouTube also so you can decide if this is the type of riding which fits with your ideology.
 
TandD - thank you, will have a look for another instructor on those sites. :)

TrasaM - thanks. Will see if any of my horsey friends have a copy, and if not I'll search amazon tomorrow.

I've already found some great youtube videos which has been a great help already. :)
 
I have a thoroughbred who had barely been schooled at all after coming off the track when i got her, and i found using acute transitions always helps with her when she isn't concentrating. really bring her back end underneath and gets her using herself, I like to sometimes work her on a figure of eight, doing various transitions each time over the centre line to keep her concentrating, and she naturally started to work into self carriage from this. be careful not to do too many though, as my girl would easily get herself a bit too excited after a few transitions. - just keep doing things to keep her thinking, as t/b's are so clever they will easily stop listening if your not making it fun and interesting at the same time - do this, and the rest should come together in time.
 
Well it seems you and this instructor are not really heading for the same goals, I don't know it might be a misunderstanding but 'sawing' and yanking head into position - eek as I'm sure you know it goes against the whole principals of a horse being 'in an outline' - have you read the epic thread about it on here?

There will be other freelance (pref classical dressage) instructors available, often those who are riders who need to fund their careers, you've just got to find them :-)
 
firstly congratulations on not being brow beaten by an 'expert'
and for sticking with your instincts based on your correct previous training

unfortunately the world is full of people who want a 'microwave' solution to everything
and there are a whole pile of people who are willing to teach them to produce quick, false, results with absolutely no thought for the welfare of the horse

and the industry training often encourages this :
- easier to get money off clients by producing quick results which look impressive to the uninformed and require minimum effort from the rider
- rather than building solid foundations for the future which require skill and feel, gained from dedication and perseverance...

please visit either my blog or FB page - links below
and fill in the form there for my free training and newsletters

I think you'll find a lot in there which supports your approach -
based as it is on first gaining a true understanding from the horse's point of view of what it is you are asking him to do
followed by an approach to riding which works with the horse's instincts
rather than asking him to learn a whole new language unnecessarily

and very much based on working the horse from 'behind'

good luck, and stick to your guns
.
 
OP You are right to trust your instincts. After 50+ years of riding I have just discovered Enlightened Equitation ......it is showing me so much of what I already know and what I don't know. I would really encourage you to investigate this method!!...!!! Good luck.
 
Hi. I would highly recommend a boom called 101 schooling exercises. I used this to reschool my very forward going horse! I.hadn't schooled properly before but had ridden for a long time. Tbh I had never really understood how to school correctly, just ride and stay on mental horses!! But this Boolean explains the horses way of horn and offeres sets of exercises to achieve different things. It also tells u what might not work and why and how to correct it and how to progress the exercises further. It also has diagram which I ground really usefully anni am quite a visual person.

My horse now engages her back end and has top line rather than a ewe neck (the walker helped with this too) and listens to my weight in my seat and half halt.

I have done this on and off over the last 5 years and she is now 18 so to some extent u can also teach an old dog new tricks!!

NEVER saw at the reins this will cause far more problems in the long run. U are already half way there by recognising this. Professional that promote this approach really irritate need!!

Another good book to promote a good rider position to help engage a horses Mary wanless ride with ur mind.

Best of luck. Perseverance will prevale! X
 
Google Tori Peters. she's also on facebook. Very helpful and I think you will find she has the same perspective as you regarding how you want to train your horse. She does lessons from her yard but also travels. Give her a call and have a chat with her
Good Luck and well done for sticking to your guns regarding your horse. You sound like you have a very mature head on young shoulders!
Let us know how you get on :)
 
Hi OP, I think I know who you are...are you the girl who was riding a dark bay TB near Irwell Vale yesterday? If so, your horse is lovely, if not, I'm not a stalker - honest :D

If it was you then Tori Peter is only a 15/20 minute hack from where you were, so you'd be able to travel to her :)

ETA: I think the OP is the girl I met yesterday, due to a conversation we had about yanking at the horses mouth, and I suggested she asked on the internet, I'm not as wierd as I sound :p

Not sure whether to post this in case I look really creepy. I'm not honest :o :P
 
ashli - Thanks, my TB is similar, he needs to be kept interested as other wise he just slops along. Will try transitions on a figure of eight :)

velocette - Thanks, have ordered the Sylvia Loch one for now, as I watched some of her videos. I have a list of books to read! :p

mandwhy - Yes, it could have just been an understanding, but in general I got the feeling she was aiming towards a quick fix, and I know it'll take months, if not years to get my horse working correctly. It's a long term goal! I have been in touch with a few people in a local area to me, with regards to instructors, so hopefully I'll find someone :)

labruyere - Thank you, have just had a quick look at your blog now, but will have a proper read later - soon as I've finished my assignment :p

Alyth - I'd never heard of enlightened equitation until I read your post, so I googled it and it looks interesting! Will definitely do some research into it - Thanks :)

Waltzing Matilda - Have added that book to my "must read" list - Thanks. Sounds like you have done well with your horse. I think I have a copy of "Ride with your mind" somewhere, so I'll have to dig it out. :)

Herts05 - Thank you, will try and find contact details for her. It would be great to find an instructor who I can work with!

ABC - Yes, I think that was me. Were you the lady with the spaniel? If so, sorry about my horse spooking at that plastic bag, although he did perform a great shoulder in, unintentionally :p That's good to hear Tori Peter is close by, I don't stable in Irwell Vale, but it's only a 10 minute hack from where I do, so a 30 minute hack at maximum wouldn't be too bad. :)

Thank you to everyone who has replied. :)
 
Heather Moffat book is very good and easy to understand. She has trained all sorts and types of horse, including TBs.

Phillipe Karl definitely worth a read, although at present there aren't any instructors of this "method" (different roads to Rome and all that), but certainly suited my horse. Takes a bit of getting your head round, but certainly makes sense.

Sylvia Loch is a very good writer and explains the aids extremely well, but I do have a bit of a problem with her advice on rider position - I have never understood the 3 point seat!
 
try and focus on slowing everything down, get him in front of you leg and try to hold him together, then give him a couple of half halts while keeping your leg on. keep doing this, its not going to come quickly. make sure you are building his muscels up too by keeping him active, hacking etc etc
Also you could try on a 20 meter circle get him bending round your leg then give a little with your inside rein for a few seconds then pick it up again.
 
Herts05 said:
Good to know that Tori is on the doorstep. For those of you who haven't seen it, check this out. Its hilarious and shows what a great sense of humour she has.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ulw214jabJo

BTW I have no affiliation to Tori but know that she has really helped people to make great progress on their horses.
Click to expand...

That is hilarious. I believe the pony can talk I do I dooooo!
 
Even if you can't transport your horse you can go and watch clinics lessons etc. It's obviously not ideal but you would learn a lot by watching others. It's a bit of a trek for you but Michael Beining is doing a clinic here www.longstylestud.co.uk weekend after next. He is brilliant, he teaches all day and you can sit and watch for free, every type of horse at every stage of training. He's totally rider focused and will give you lots of ideas about what you should be doing. Give them a call if you are interested.
 
Thank you for all the advice, it's been noted! :)

I don't understand Sylvia Loch's three point seat either. :p

ajn1610 - Thank you for that link, I'll definitely contact them, and maybe try and find similar things nearer to home. It doesn't help that I don't have loads of money, but I'll manage, I might try and watch other people have lessons and learn from them.

Thanks, you've all given me a lot to think about. :)
 
Have you all watched Sylvia on YouTube? She sits very pretty but hasn't got the horses working over the back and into a happy contact! Amazing that you all think she is a hero. Go watch again.
 
Herts05 said:
Google Tori Peters. she's also on facebook. Very helpful and I think you will find she has the same perspective as you regarding how you want to train your horse. She does lessons from her yard but also travels. Give her a call and have a chat with her
Good Luck and well done for sticking to your guns regarding your horse. You sound like you have a very mature head on young shoulders!
Let us know how you get on :)
Click to expand...

Was this the lady taking the lesson on the thread about classical dressage? :eek:
 
Orangehorse said:
Phillipe Karl definitely worth a read, although at present there aren't any instructors of this "method" (different roads to Rome and all that), but certainly suited my horse. Takes a bit of getting your head round, but certainly makes sense.
Click to expand...

Phillipe Karl is currently teaching a training course for instructors in his method http://holisticequitation.co.uk/pkarl.html
 
ridefast said:
Phillipe Karl is currently teaching a training course for instructors in his method http://holisticequitation.co.uk/pkarl.html
Click to expand...

I have lessons there. I found him after I was totally disillusioned with what I was being taught in my local RS. I have lessons with Derek Clark who is I think a great coach and always takes time to explain everything properly. My first lesson was quite an eye opener and I was quite emotional when I finished..in a good way :) as I realised that my idea of riding was not a figment of my imagination.
 
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