Advice on loan horse problems

Bluebelle666

Bluebelle666

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I have had my loan horse for a year now. I brought her back into work after a previous injury and have worked hard to get her to be the fit, healthy, allrounder horse that she is today (well New years Eve anyway).

Around 4 months ago the owner informed me that she planned to sell her and someone would be coming to view her in a few days. That person never viewed, however it did push me to decide that I wanted my own horse so that someone could not take away at 2 days notice.

In December I nearly bought a filly (it failed on the vetting), I informed the owner and said I was happy to give 4 weeks notice, the owner went mental and told me she was taking her that weekend. She then changed her mind and as the filly failed her vetting it was decided that I would keep Blondie until she was either sold or I found my own horse.

Unfortunately on New Years day Blondie came in from the field lame. I informed the owner who requested she be turned out as normal for 2 weeks which I did, she's still lame so she requested that she go on box rest. The owner does not want the vet calling out. No heat in the leg, the problem appears to be in her shoulder. The owner has not been to see her in 6 months.

That brings me to today. I have viewed and put down a deposit on a mare. I have contacted the owner and said that I will give her 4 weeks notice. The owner has again gone mental, she now states that it is my fault her horse is lame, that in the 3 weeks she has been lame there have been 3 people wanting to buy her and because of the lameness she cannot sell her. So it is therefore my fault she cannot sell her.

She has said that I have to take responsibility for the lameness and keep her until she is again fit and the owner has sold her.

Am I being unfair with the 4 weeks notice?

Or is she being unfair asking me to keep her horse until she is again fit and sold?

What should of been a very exciting day has now upset me :(
 
who is responsible for vets bills?
the lady who has our old pony on loan is responsible for vets fees but is supposed to inform me of any visits. i would not be impressed if she did not have vet out and then wanted to give me back a lame pony. that said it depends on what your agreement is.
 
Poor you - its a pity you did not stick to the original collection date.

All i can say is if she wants you to keep her until she is sound - then she needs to cough up for the vet !

Good luck - this sounds a tough one
 
No I don't think you are being unreasonable in giving her notice.

In fact I think it is disgraceful that the owner has not bothered to come and see her since being lame and won't have the vet called out - what are you supposed to do, just keep her lame horse indefinitely until she gets better or not?

Do you have a contract? I'm sure you are well within your rights to give her 4 weeks notice whether the horse is lame or not.

If I was you I'd tell her that she had 4 weeks in order to come pick her up, and that in the mean time you'll get the vet out to see her if she wants that to happen.

It's a tricky situation but at the end of the day she isn't your horse, she is the responsibility of the owner - and the arrangement was due to end anyway.
 
aah did you have a contract?
I think shes being unfair,if you dont have a contract/or its not written it.
The BHS one we used said loan horse could be taken away without notice,but we needed to give a months notice,nothing more. so if our mare went lame or we didnt want her ,we had to have her a month,thats it.

thats the good thing,we found,about a loan ,especially with contract,once we gave notice,they had to take it back.
 
The arrangement is that the owner pays for all vets fees. This was arranged as such as when she asked if I would like to loan her I checked out horse insurance but because of her previous injury and her age (17) the insurance would cover very little so I said that I wouldn't be able to loan.

The owner then said that she would cover all vets fee's if and when required if I would loan her.

That's the agreement and the reason why the vet has not been out. I have always been in regular contact with the owner, albeit primarily one way to inform her of how well she's doing or any problems we've come across. She was informed of the lameness on the day.
 
There is no contract as we used to be friends. I haven't seen her in 6 months now though.

I think that what worries me most about her attitude is that she will just refuse to collect her so what do I do then??
 
Bluebelle666 said:
The owner then said that she would cover all vets fee's if and when required if I would loan her.

That's the agreement and the reason why the vet has not been out. I have always been in regular contact with the owner, albeit primarily one way to inform her of how well she's doing or any problems we've come across. She was informed of the lameness on the day.
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then she is the one being unreasonable! how are you going to get the horse better again without the vet? or well enough for her to sell...

can i ask why, if she is selling the horse you loan, you did not consider buying the mare yourself?
 
'can i ask why, if she is selling the horse you loan, you did not consider buying the mare yourself? '

Because as much as I care for her I am realistic that I cannot afford any major vets fees and if I was to have my own horse I would most definitely be insuring it.
 
thats fair comment. Personally I would have called the vet out by now really because the welfare of the horse should come before the money. You can insist that the vet is called it might be something simple or it could be something more serious but either way she should still see a vet. She's given you a year of pleasure even if you don't intend to keep her so a little tlc at her age seems only fair to me.
 
I think the owner is being unreasonable but at the same time i think you should have put your foot down and insisted the vet is called and she coughs up the money.

Stick to your guns and keep with the four weeks notice. If she doesnt collect then you need to make arrangments for the mare to be taken to her front door and dropped off.

Loans can be 'tricky' from both owner and loaner but she does sound a rather nasty piece of work so be careful.

Personally if the owner wanted her to be shown to someone interested in buying her i would have told her to get her arss to the stables and do the viewing herself!
 
please don't get me wrong - the reason for the vet not being called has nothing to do with money on my behalf. The owner has said that I am NOT to call the vet out as she is concerned that as she wants to sell her on she does not want any comeback from recent vet involvement - she is hoping that she will just naturally come right, where as I feel that especially as it is the same leg as before then it would be better to be safe than sorry and get it checked.

I am worried that if I go against her instructions she could say that I am the reason for her horse not selling and have some legal comeback against me.

She does not appear to be in any pain at all, just lame in her fore left leg.

I can't believe I am in this situation, especially as she was meant to be my friend. :(
 
I agree that you should have called the vet.

However, stick with your notice period, organise transport and confirm to the owner the date you will be returning the horse.
 
that is a shockingly poor excuse not to call the vet. Honestly call them out at least see what the problem is it could be something simple and easy to fix. Anyone buying is going to if they have any common sense do a vetting so it will be picked up anyway.
 
I don't think I'd be happy keeping a horse in pain without diagnosis/ pain relief for another month while waiting to return her. I'd go and see (always easier face to face) or at least call and have a sensible discussion with your friend/ the owner. Either she calls the vet asap and you'll carry on with the notice peirod or tell her you consider her failure to call the vet a breach of the verbal contract you have and that you'll return the horse asap.
If you don't have your own transport do you have a friend that can help out? or what would your plans be for your own horse if you needed transport in an emergancy?
 
If the owner is that worried about vet involvement I would tell them that you will be calling the vet, if they say not to then ask them to remove the horse immediately as you will not be keeping a lame horse any longer as you could be reported for neglecting to get it the vets attention it needs

It sounds like that is your trump card
 
There's nothing in writing unfortunately.

I think that i might start to be a little less reasonable from no on after all this grief.

I have also come to the decision that if the horse that I am having fails her vetting and I choose not to go ahead with the purchase I am still going to return my loan horse as this has really upset me again.

She had apologised after the last time, siting other reasons as to why she was being so personal and rude towards me. Whilst I can forgive once, I cannot forgive twice.

I just worry that she will not collect her - what can I do then?? The owner does have her own land which she keeps a few horses on and I know Blondie has previously lived there but I just really worry for Blondie if I did this.
 
lameness is an indicator of pain.

in your shoes i would call the vet and have the invoice sent ot the owner.
i would tell her this is what you are going to do and if she is not happy with it she can collect the horse first thing in the morning and you will be calling the bhs for advice on how to proceed from there.

sorry about the flit between tenses but dinner is cooking and i dont have time to correct it:p
 
I can understand why you haven't called the vet, owners can be odd regarding loan horses, and I say this as someone who has put one out on loan several times, as well as loaning one, then buying him later. (never again, wew have paid for all the hard work we put in)
Contact her in writing, stating the horse is lame, you tried to return the horse previously and she wouldn't take him back, and that if the horse isn't picked up by x then you will be ringing the vet.
On another point, has a farrier seen him recently, as 2 of ours have had absesses recently, and they seem to be more prevelent recently.
She should also disclose that the horse has been lame when she is selling by the way, as if she doesn't, and the horse goes lame again, even without a vetting she will be in trouble, especially if whoever buys said horse is a member on here!
 
Polos Mum said:
I don't think I'd be happy keeping a horse in pain without diagnosis/ pain relief for another month while waiting to return her. I'd go and see (always easier face to face) or at least call and have a sensible discussion with your friend/ the owner. Either she calls the vet asap and you'll carry on with the notice peirod or tell her you consider her failure to call the vet a breach of the verbal contract you have and that you'll return the horse asap. If you don't have your own transport do you have a friend that can help out? or what would your plans be for your own horse if you needed transport in an emergancy?
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This sounds like very good advise.
 
Bluebelle666 said:
There's nothing in writing unfortunately.

I think that i might start to be a little less reasonable from no on after all this grief.

I have also come to the decision that if the horse that I am having fails her vetting and I choose not to go ahead with the purchase I am still going to return my loan horse as this has really upset me again.

She had apologised after the last time, siting other reasons as to why she was being so personal and rude towards me. Whilst I can forgive once, I cannot forgive twice.

I just worry that she will not collect her - what can I do then?? The owner does have her own land which she keeps a few horses on and I know Blondie has previously lived there but I just really worry for Blondie if I did this.
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if you are giving the horse back you have no control over what happens to it from there, you need to make a decision, buy the horse and keep her how you would choose or let go and be done with it
 
'If the owner is that worried about vet involvement I would tell them that you will be calling the vet, if they say not to then ask them to remove the horse immediately as you will not be keeping a lame horse any longer as you could be reported for neglecting to get it the vets attention it needs

It sounds like that is your trump card '



I like this as a reason. I will call the vet to come out and see her, surely she cannot have a comeback from this? I will tell her that that is my intention and reason and i she does have an issue then state.....



'Either she calls the vet asap and you'll carry on with the notice peirod or tell her you consider her failure to call the vet a breach of the verbal contract you have and that you'll return the horse asap. '


The livery yard owner can help with any transport.
 
Tell her either she gets the vet now or she collects the horse now. If she doesn't collect her, deliver her back to her. Your agreement was she paid the vet bills and now is come to the crunch she won't so you need to stand up to her.
 
Sounds like a good plan but you should set yourself a fixed limit on what you are prepared to pay vets for this horse (which you've said you'll be giving back in a month anyway) - what will you do if they suggest bringing her in for scans/ nerve blocks etc.?

You might have a nice vet who'll rule out anything really nasty and give you some bute for the next few weeks - but that could still easily be £150 and if you've called them you will be responsible (unfortunately)
 
You could try calling the farrier out to have a look as they should be able to tell if it is an abcess and if it is then it can be poulticed.

Apart from that I would go along with the others that you should tell the owner she either needs to get a vet out or you will return her immediately.
 
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