Advice on Purchasing a colt to be a breeding stallion

sarahearle83

sarahearle83

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Joined
11 December 2009
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11
Location
Harlow
www.stewardsfarmequestrian.co.uk
I'm purchasing an andalucian from Spain and contemplating getting a colt to use as at stud in future years, but also as a riding horse. I have my own yard, but at present have limited Grazing. However I'm hoping to rectify this with renting some close by. The stallion will always be kept on the yard, as I know the dificulties of renting Graszing with a stallion.
On the yard we'll have 2 geldings and a mare, will the colt be able to run with the geldings and the mare split in another field when she is in heat? The geldings aren't very dominant and usually end up at the bottom of the pecking order. So I'm worried whether this colt could end up bullying them and hurting them. The other option is to purchase a filly and breed with this, but it means she'd be out of action when in foal and I would like the horse to be my future riding horse too.
Can anyone give me any advise?
 
The costs of producing a stallion are huge and you should only consider this if you have losts of spare cash or a very good business plan.

Depending on the jumping ability of the stallion you may need to build a stallion fence around the paddock to stop him jumping out to get to the mare. for example our fencing is about 7ft high. and covered with electrical tape.

It is a huge comitment.
 
I'm looking into this and breeding is new to me. I definintely have decided on an adalucian, and its just a thought of whether I should do this or not. As I've still a lot of research to do. I potentially will get the colt gelded if thats what I decide to go for.
Do you have any generic breeding advice, setting up, what to do, not too do?
Anything would be appreciated right now, to make sure I make the right choices on what I'd like to do and whats best for all the horses involved, as thats whats important to me.
Many thanks
 
I'm sorry but my answer would be don't do it.

The questions you are asking suggest to me that you don't know enough about horses to own a stallion and therefore should not be responsible for looking after one.

I'm sorry if that's harsh but to me you sound too inexperienced. go and work with stallions and find out first hand what you need, then decide whether or not it is something you want to do.
 

You're going to hate me for this, but I'm going to tell you to LISTEN to the advice from TayloredEquestrian.

Before you have dealings with a stallion, then go and work with them. TE is entirely correct, in that I (we?) don't think that you really understand just how complex a stallion can be.

Get it all wrong, and he may injure you, badly, or possibly kill one of your geldings, and before anyone berates me with tales of wonderful stallions which are pussy cats, let me assure you, that most of them call for a level of experience and knowledge which should be gained by many years of experience.

Do as you will, but be advised, stallions are not, generally, geldings!

Alec.
 
Thanks for your response and I value your honesty.
However I'm looking for advice and answers to questions. I've never bred before, thats a fact however I've worked with and owned horses for nearly 20 years. So I wouldn't say I was inexperienced when it came to horses.
However I am new to contemplating breeding and I'm looking for advice on the pro's cons, what should and should not be done if I decided to do this. After all everyone must start somewhere.
My intentions are honerable and I would never risk my horses, me or anyone else of that matter.
I would like experienced breeders to tell me a little about this and what I should be considering, before I decided for or against.
I do appreciate your response, but a bit of experience and advice on breeding would have been more useful. Thanks for your time.
 
I don't hate you. I want the best advice possible so I can make an informed decision.
I don't want to 'bite off more than I can chew' hence why I asked on a forum to get experience from people who have done this and know what to think about and consider.
Thanks for your comments and time, its much appreciated.
 
sarahann83,

I accept that my response, and possibly that of TayloredEquestrian, may have been rather blunt, HOWEVER, if you have no experience of dealing with stallions, then, do think carefully.

You have, with honesty, admitted that you're new to breeding, and again you're right, in that everyone has to start somewhere. Those who deal with stallions tend to have been employed in such a capacity.

I would suggest to you that there those entire horses which will react, in a dangerous manner, to those women who are going through the process of a normal human menstrual cycle. Whilst this certainly doesn't apply to all entire horses, you must give it due consideration, because it most certainly is a risk.

Before you decide to embark upon a career handling stallions, gain some experience, and I wish you luck. Also, before you ask for breeding advice, be certain of what you are doing. This may well be an equally blunt response, but it's in your best interest.

Alec.
 
Your advice is greatly appreciated.
And I want to find out more and decide what is the right decision. Thats why I asked on this forum.
To ensure I'm certain and know what it entails and what I'm letting myself in for.
As mentioned previously I've asked these questions for peoples experience and response. I have not definitely decided to do this, nor against it. I would like to find out more before I completely rule out or decide to do it.
I will definintely be buying a colt, but will potentially have him gelded if its not the right choice for me.
I just wanted some advice on what I should consider if I move into this field, or even before I decide to move into this field to make sure I am making the right choices.
Again thanks very much for your time and advice, it is as I have said greatly appreciated.
 
I used to breed fells and cobs ,we had a fell stallion who was indeed a pussy cat but he was definately unusual from the stallions i have met they are def not play toys.Andalucians are not quiet breeds from what i've heard and would be very strong .
maybe visit some studs to see stallions at stud to see what facilities and behaviour the stallions are like ??
 
I have to echo all that has been said above.

We stand five stallions at stud (of varying breeds) and we are two females by the way.Each stallion is different, in temperament, behaviour and charectaristics.Whilst all ours are well behaved and have good temperaments, you can never really trusts a stallion or completely relax in the presence of any stallion.
Just like hormones affect us females, they also affect the boys and depending on their nature, these changes can be visible or hidden and buried, only to be released when you least expect it.
Keeping an entire (in this case male) is an additional burden as regards equine care.You cant just get job blogs to keep an eye on them if you want a few days away.Seasonal changes bring with them additional problems and facilities need to be top notch to prevent mixing and the horrific consequences of a confrontation.
Please think of your own safety and that of your existing stock before you make any decisions.
 
Firstly are you thinking of this purchase for you own breeding needs or are you thinking of standing your Stallion at public Stud?

If you want to experience breeding for the first time and you are wanting him only for your own breeding, then I would advise you to get a quality mare instead and dip your toe in the more peaceful end of breeding.

If you buy a youngster you could run it on see how you and he get on, then you have the option of gelding him if it really is not for you and recover some semen for freezing when you geld him.

Having a stallion for your own stud will lead you into a genetic bottleneck in a few years, as you will not be able to breed him to his daughters, so there comes a point where his use on your own stock will be limited.

Owning a stallion is a complex business not only from a handling and personal safety viewpoint, but if you are to get the best out of your stallion then commitment is high, you need to perform with him to prove his worth, which means going out there on days when you would really rather not, it's all about the marketing if you want him to earn his keep.

If you are standing at Public stud then you need very good facilities to house other people's mares and a good stud vet to assist, you need facilities to scan, tease and cover mares, and INSURANCE for you and the mares. Or you need to pay someone to handle him for you and house the mares, which can become a pain if you need to cover in the competition season and can be costly.

If you are serious I would take the advice above and look locally for a stud where you can go and see what you might be letting yourself in for. The breed you have chosen can be excitable and highly strung in the wrong hands, so try and get to a breed stud or at least a breed with similar traits.

Be very careful when buying your horse, get to know the good and bad points of the breed, find out any inherant weaknesses and take someone with you who knows what to look for in that breed, don't cut corners and I would pay more and go to a recommended seller or you could end up with a real lemon!

Breeding a stallion is not for everyone and keeping a Stallion is a huge responsibility and really only for the serious competition rider, breed enthusiast or commercial breeder, so think carefully what it is you want to achieve before you take this on.
 
Excellent advice from KarynK. I would also have suggested buying a breeding mare first as this will give you a good insight into how the whole system works and will allow you to be involved from beginning to end. Then once you are more familiar with, not only the handling side of things, but the business side of things, consider buying your own stallion. As Karyn says though, do not scrimp on the stallion, or the mare, for breeding purposes. Theres a saying that goes something like this, it takes as much money to breed a lousy foal as it does to breed a good one.
 
Here here KarynK I also would like to add you need to work with many different types of stallion's to give you an idea of how they differ in their upbrining and how you can influence how they behave around you, and mares and other horses as this Knowledge is vital to your safety and that of anything around you.
good luck in your decision making.
 
Have you enough experience of the breed to be able to pick out a potential stallion? Is there an Andalucian stud you can work at to gauge what they are like as stallions (though this does not stop them from being their own individual, there are traits that make up the breed).

If I were you I would talk to the studs who already deal with these horses. There are some breeds that are just so much easier to deal with, regardless whether they are entire. What you do need to know has already been posted about insurance etc. Stallions do need a lot of respect & it wont hurt to spend time around them. Also a breeding stallion can be far harder to handle then one kept mainly for competition & only covers a dummy.

As you say you have to start somewhere & I can remember another poster getting mixed responses on purchasing a stallion & being a first timer despite having years of horse experience. The welfare of the colt is what concerns people as you know. Mis handling can make or break a horse, but more so with an entire.
 
Hi I echo the comments above, stallions are what the owners make them (imo), if you have 20 years experience then you should know what your doing therefore you should already know the pro's/con's of owning one!
There are a lot of people on here that probably have well natured stallions (I do) and I do believe it's how you handle them from day 1. Unfortunately there are too many inexperienced people owning stallions that can't cope with them and these are the ones that give stallions a bad reputation. (some people may agree others won't) but this is just my opinion.
I don't have 20 years (only 10 years) experience working with horses but I have worked in plenty of professional stud's/yards before I considered buying my own stallion.
Good luck hope things work out for you.
 
I'd like to thank everyone for their comments. They've really helped. I've still a lot of thinking to do, but I may decide to buy a filly instead or buy the colt and geld him as per KarynK advice. I'd like to thank you especially as your comments have really helped.
Thank you everyone.
 
[ QUOTE ]


Before you have dealings with a stallion, then go and work with them. TE is entirely correct, in that I (we?) don't think that you really understand just how complex a stallion can be.

Get it all wrong, and he may injure you, badly, or possibly kill one of your geldings, and before anyone berates me with tales of wonderful stallions which are pussy cats, let me assure you, that most of them call for a level of experience and knowledge which should be gained by many years of experience.


[/ QUOTE ]

SO TRUE!!

Now I HAVE one of those pussycats of stallions - 17hh and 800 kg of pure Irish Draught - now 18. He's a GEM to handle - and I've handled a lot of stallions!

But a couple of months ago, a dim groom managed to let him out of his stable. He RUSHED to the stallion turn-out field where his 4 year old son (also 17hh and entire) was. My stud groom reacted FAST to the sound of hooves on concrete - and girl's screams - and found two 17hh stallions rearing and striking at each other through one strand of electric tape (two strands already broken.)

If he hadn't acted fast, we'd have had a full scale stallion fight on our hands!

A stallion MIGHT live with a gelding, if he's been very well socialised and knows the gelding, but if there's a mare in season within sniffing distance (and that's a mile or more depending on which the way the wind is blowing) might just decide to kill him!

These two are yearlings - and have lived together since they were weaned. And that's PLAY fight. They won't be playing by the time they are 4!

colts-play2.jpg
 
I think that you are starting out the right way, you are finding out what you can, all credit to you, there are some that just jump straight in, buy a stallion first and then live with the consequences, whatever they may be.

I could be classed as 'one of those backyard breeders' or an enthusiast, and actually I don't give two pins what people think, I am not competing with the big boys, I match my horses with thought, breed for my pleasure and home my colts carefully. I am just giving my view on this.

I have a QH stallion and a small band of AQHA, APHA and Arabian mares, and I breed useful, registered riding horses, I have a waiting list for my weanlings, I could sell three times the number I produce, but have no plans to. Before I bought my QH's I didn't have any experience of them at all, but I did a lot of research, talked to a lot of people and thought of the type of stallion I wanted, it then took me 2 years to find him.

I had worked with stallions for years though, mainly arabians in racing stables, which covered as well.

If you do decide to go ahead, I would seriously discourage you from running a colt/stallion with a gelding, because, as has been said, in the off season he may be fine (my stallion adores my 32" mini, although there is no way i would allow them out together) but when the ladies are sending out clear signals most stallions think with their bits, they can't help it. A great many DO lead careers in all fields of course, I am not saying otherwise, there are respected breeders on here who breed and compete their stallions to prove it.

This is what happens when a horse decides he would like to kill another one, the appy was actually (supposedly) a gelding, but running with mares, the mini was a yearling colt who escaped to where he shouldn't have been.
DSCF3599.jpg



Zeus runs with his in season mares, and generally, in the winter has an in-foal wife with him for company. Every stallion is an individual, and much depends on their early handling and temperament. If things don't work out, you can at least geld a stallion as you have already said.
 
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