Advice on purchasing from horse dealer

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codie

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Hi all,
Would like to know my rights (or where I can find out) regarding purchasing a 'Grey Gelding' on the 16/12/2011 from a horse dealer.

3/4 weeks later I have observed problems with his behaviour which was not the same I witnessed perviously. This behaviour I would described as errattic. It does not fit the purpose for which it was sold and I do not know what I should do. I have contacted the horse dealer on 13/01/2012 and advised him of the above. He has informed me that he will not refund any money but has offerred to sell the horse for me or exchanged for another. I just want my money returned.
Can anyone help regarding the above i.e. my rights, sale of goods act, anyone else experienced same problem.
Many thanks
Codie
 
This is a difficult one because you do not say what the erratic behaviour is or why it makes the horse unfit for purpose.

You have not had him very long and he may take time to settle in if he has moved yards. Possibly the change of home/owner/diet/workload has upset him and he will settle with time. Does he exhibit undesirable behaviour at any time, just under saddle, just in hand etc? Lots of things have changed for him and this has probably dented his confidence. If he is not dangerous to handle I would cut him some slack and give him a while to settle in before doing anything drastic.
 
I'm sure someone else will offer you some advise re. Sale of goods act, but in fairness to your new horse, 3/4 weeks isn't giving him much time to settle in. What 'erratic behaviour' is he displaying?
A dealer who offers to resell your horse or exchange it for another is being quite fair IMO.
 
did you get any paperwork from the dealer at the time of sale? Terms of sale? A receipt?

You'l be very lucky to get all your money back Im afraid. Having been in the situation a couple of times the best I managed was an exchange with the dealer for a horse that was, of course more expensive:rolleyes: and on another occasion the dealer took the horse back to sell on my behalf.Both times Im afraid I lost out hugely financially:o Had to write it off as experience and would never buy from a dealer again.
 
NeverSayNever said:
did you get any paperwork from the dealer at the time of sale? Terms of sale? A receipt?

You'l be very lucky to get all your money back Im afraid. Having been in the situation a couple of times the best I managed was an exchange with the dealer for a horse that was, of course more expensive:rolleyes: and on another occasion the dealer took the horse back to sell on my behalf.Both times Im afraid I lost out hugely financially:o Had to write it off as experience and would never buy from a dealer again.
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I have had my first experience of owning a horse and bought from a dealer. It has gone horribly wrong . The dealer will not help in any way at all . I think partly because I sent a few texts saying he was settling in well . They are now being pinged back at me , saying I don't have a leg to stand on.
Not quite the dope on a rope, first horse for a novice rider I was sold.
I have lost all my confidence and once I have sold him , not sure I could go through all this stress again.:(

I would be very very reluctant to go through a dealer unless he/she were highly reccommended
 
Ideal said:
I have had my first experience of owning a horse and bought from a dealer. It has gone horribly wrong . The dealer will not help in any way at all . I think partly because I sent a few texts saying he was settling in well . They are now being pinged back at me , saying I don't have a leg to stand on.
Not quite the dope on a rope, first horse for a novice rider I was sold.
I have lost all my confidence and once I have sold him , not sure I could go through all this stress again.:(

I would be very very reluctant to go through a dealer unless he/she were highly reccommended
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Echo this, same happened to me. We involved trading standards who put pressure on the dealer as the horse was dangerous (rearing and striking out with experienced horse people). Best we got was a swap. We have since heard of other people in the same position with this guy.
I'd go for a swap and take someone very experienced to see the swap horse too, get it vetted that day so it can't be doped (bloods), and try to make sure the horse is maybe even under your capabilities so it can be sold on if required. I'm still 'bringing on' the swap over three years later as he also has mental problems from being beaten at the yard and I couldn't bear to sell him on.
 
imho, the best way for someone who has had a confidence knock and isnt going to be able to deal with issues that come up is to be extremely patient and wait for something to come along through word of mouth.

Join your local RC and go along to as many events as you can and offer help, there will be dressage & jumping leagues, lessons and clinics. Get to know people and make sure everyone knows you are on the look out. The RC I am in is pretty small but I know there are horses changing hands, going out on loan etc without ever being advertised as they just gems.

I have bought successfully privately from someone unknown but the best little horse I have ever found (my current princess:p) belonged to a friend in RC, I started riding her when my own horse was off work and then got to buy her later on.
 
I am having similar problems - so if you find any magic answers please let me know. I find it anoying as well that H&H are happy to take regular advertising revenue from this unscrupulous dealer. There should be a register of horse dealers - like BHS approved riding schools - so there is a code of conduct. Not all dealers are bad, so the good ones would be happy to register. From what I can gather the one I used has sold plenty of doped horse - that consitiutes animal cruelty, and by excepting their ad money H&H are condoning mis treatment of horses.
 
Trading standards would be your best bet for both advice and action but much depends upon what you have in writing, what the behaviour is and whether the dealer is known to them. Depending upon how much money is involved you may wish to get proper legal advice.
 
As others have said, it's common for horses behaviour to alter slightly when they come to a new home with new owners. It's also likely that he's entered the stage where he is now testing you. Most of the horses that I've had have tried to test me once they've settled in a bit, and usually that's about a month in.

What are your turnout and exercise arrangements; ie is he getting the same amount of exercise and turnout as he was getting at his previous home? I think if it's less, then that'll be the most likely cause of any sharper behaviour.
it’s always good for owners and riders of all levels to have an instructor/trainer and in the first instance I'd suggest you start off with some lessons and see if your trainer can help bring his attitude back round to where you want it.

I think you'll struggle trying to get your full money back from a dealer tbh, unless you can prove the horse was medicated, or that it has a history of this behaviour that was hidden from you. Did you have the horse vetted? If so, did you have bloods done? If you have any suspicions that the horse's behaviour has altered, have a chat with the vet who vetted him.
 
Frantastic said:
There should be a register of horse dealers - like BHS approved riding schools - so there is a code of conduct. Not all dealers are bad, so the good ones would be happy to register.
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There are registered traders who abide by a code of conduct, they are on the BETA website and they are rigorously checked out before they are allowed to be listed
 
CeeBee said:
I'm sure someone else will offer you some advise re. Sale of goods act, but in fairness to your new horse, 3/4 weeks isn't giving him much time to settle in. What 'erratic behaviour' is he displaying?
A dealer who offers to resell your horse or exchange it for another is being quite fair IMO.
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^^ This
 
Something similar happened to someone I know, they bought a novice horse for their 13 year old daughter but the horse (despite a hefty price tag) came and within days was rearing in hand and generally savaging people on the yard. Obviously the child couldn't handle it and the parents tried to return the horse as unsuitable. Dealer wouldn't have it back and so they took legal action and lost. I'm not entirely sure exactly why they lost but have a feeling it was something about them not making it clear they wanted a horse suitable for a novice. Eventually they sold horse for a huge loss to a friend of mine and to be honest, years on, he's never going to be safe for a novice!

That said, I would buy from a dealer, if it was the right dealer with a good reputation and they had or could find what I wanted. IMHO the fact that they're prepared to offer an exchange is much better than most! As others have said, I'd take someone with you who knows what they're looking at and get it vetted with bloods taken if you're in any doubt about their honesty.

In the meantime I would try to find out what the current horse's routine, turnout, feed, exercise, etc was and try to match that in an effort to help the horse settle a bit more. Given a bit more time and a familiar routine it might all come right. Depending of course on what the behaviour is, as obviously if the horse is dangerous that isn't easy to forget and move on. Good luck getting it sorted out.
 
I sold a horse (as a dealer) to a lady as quiet, suitable for a nervous but not novice rider to go and do all sorts of things on. We'd had him 8 weeks and he'd had a variety of riders on him, been to a few shows, been hunting, been clipped, been on hacks etc. As far as we were concerned he was as described.

The lady had him a week before she text to say she'd been bucked off, then he did it again. As it wasn't too far away (about an hour drive) I went to have a sit on. He was NOT the same horse, never bucked when I rode him but was nervous, twitchy, felt like an unexploded bomb.

We gave her her money back and had the horse back, I think minus £100 for readvertising, my time going up there etc. It was not the horse's fault, something had upset him and it just wasn't worth persevering with swapping etc as I think the lady was a little more novice than she let on, and we didn't have anything in at the time that was foolproof, small enough etc.

The horse took a few weeks to get right, had developed a bit of a nap and a drop of the shoulder, all in a week.

Not all dealers are the same, and horses aren't machines. They do change from home to home.
 
emmab13 said:
I sold a horse (as a dealer) to a lady as quiet, suitable for a nervous but not novice rider to go and do all sorts of things on. We'd had him 8 weeks and he'd had a variety of riders on him, been to a few shows, been hunting, been clipped, been on hacks etc. As far as we were concerned he was as described.

The lady had him a week before she text to say she'd been bucked off, then he did it again. As it wasn't too far away (about an hour drive) I went to have a sit on. He was NOT the same horse, never bucked when I rode him but was nervous, twitchy, felt like an unexploded bomb.

We gave her her money back and had the horse back, I think minus £100 for readvertising, my time going up there etc. It was not the horse's fault, something had upset him and it just wasn't worth persevering with swapping etc as I think the lady was a little more novice than she let on, and we didn't have anything in at the time that was foolproof, small enough etc.

The horse took a few weeks to get right, had developed a bit of a nap and a drop of the shoulder, all in a week.

Not all dealers are the same, and horses aren't machines. They do change from home to home.
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You are obviously very fair and did the right thing for all concerned, the main issue I have with dealers and less experienced buyers is that the buyer is often trying to be less novicey than they really are and that dealers are more experienced riders than they often realise.
The other problem is that while in a dealers yard they are usually in regular and reasonably hard work, the idea being the sooner you get to know a horse the sooner it can be sold, the very nature of the business means it is difficult to really know everything about each individual.
Horses do need time to adjust but if it has spent a short period of time at a dealers it is not the same as leaving a long term home, the adjustment should be taken into account but if not fit for purpose it should be taken back. Buying horses is a lottery at the best of times and going through a dealer with a good reputation should safeguard you if the horse proves to be unsuitable.
 
be positive said:
You are obviously very fair and did the right thing for all concerned, the main issue I have with dealers and less experienced buyers is that the buyer is often trying to be less novicey than they really are and that dealers are more experienced riders than they often realise.
The other problem is that while in a dealers yard they are usually in regular and reasonably hard work, the idea being the sooner you get to know a horse the sooner it can be sold, the very nature of the business means it is difficult to really know everything about each individual.
Horses do need time to adjust but if it has spent a short period of time at a dealers it is not the same as leaving a long term home, the adjustment should be taken into account but if not fit for purpose it should be taken back. Buying horses is a lottery at the best of times and going through a dealer with a good reputation should safeguard you if the horse proves to be unsuitable.
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Very true. Horses are not cars and you are buying the horse not the rider! A good dealer will always try and match the horse to the rider and help out afterwards if any problems occur. I'd take the exchange offered even if you under horse yourself. Get it vetted and take someonf knowledgable in buying horses with you. Good luck!
 
What you are supposed to do - from a legal standpoint, is to write them a formal letter stating why the horse is not as they described and state that you would like to return the horse for a refund.

If they say they will take it back and sell it for you, then you need to make sure you will get all your money back when they sell it, and not X amount of money with some livery and commission take off.

Check your house insurance, it might have legal cover which can help you.
 
The same thing has just happened to me, I was offered an exchange or he would sell for me. I cut my loses and sold back to him for a fraction of what I paid. You could always try the small claims court but it's very hard to prove. Good luck and most of all stay safe, no amount of money is worth you getting hurt.
 
Honestly, this is a very tricky business. I never buy from dealers any more after buying a horse and it changing after I bought it, and me suffering a bad fall. Thankfully, we got our money back, but the best advice I could give you would be to learn from your mistake, because if the dealer won't give you your money back, there isn't much you can do! :(
hope this helped! :)
Kath
 
I always allow a horse about two years to really settle in and become well established in a new home.
When you purchase a horse you should always make it quite clear what you are looking for and take someone with you. You should also always keep a copy of the advert in case things go wrong.
Horses are not machines and they will change with a move, change of feed and grazing and with different people handling it and riding it.
There are of course a large number of unscrupulous sellers both dealers and private sellers and you should never ever believe what people say!
Having said that if you want to take action against the dealer then you need to instruct a specialist equine solicitor to act on your behalf. Fair standards trading officers have very little experience of horses and they should only be involved once several people have taken action against a specific seller.
 
OWLIE185 said:
I always allow a horse about two years to really settle in and become well established in a new home.
When you purchase a horse you should always make it quite clear what you are looking for and take someone with you. You should also always keep a copy of the advert in case things go wrong.
Horses are not machines and they will change with a move, change of feed and grazing and with different people handling it and riding it.
There are of course a large number of unscrupulous sellers both dealers and private sellers and you should never ever believe what people say!
Having said that if you want to take action against the dealer then you need to instruct a specialist equine solicitor to act on your behalf. Fair standards trading officers have very little experience of horses and they should only be involved once several people have taken action against a specific seller.
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I agree with you. My horse was a right monkey for a year or so,couldnt pick his back legs up,couldn't catch him.Finally he started trusting me and now hes my buddy.I can do anything now!! Had him 6.5 years now and will never part with him.
 
Ideal said:
I have had my first experience of owning a horse and bought from a dealer. It has gone horribly wrong . The dealer will not help in any way at all . I think partly because I sent a few texts saying he was settling in well . They are now being pinged back at me , saying I don't have a leg to stand on.
Not quite the dope on a rope, first horse for a novice rider I was sold.
I have lost all my confidence and once I have sold him , not sure I could go through all this stress again.:(

I would be very very reluctant to go through a dealer unless he/she were highly reccommended
Click to expand...
I had the exact same experience as you! He was supposedly a reasonably novicy horse, and turned out, when we made contact with previous owner, he had napped, bucked, reared with her 12 year old daughter, and dragged the experienced horsewoman mother through a field!!!! As well as what he did with me, which destroyed my confidence, and I am still very nervous now, 10 months later! Luckily we got our money back, but I would never but from a dealer again..
Kath
 
Hi, I've never posted before but his sounded so familiar. I bought a mare from a dealer and when I tried her she was quiet and well mannered. When I got her home though she was like a different horse , when I first rode her she span round in circles and napped constantly. She spooked at everything she saw and even tried to jump out of her stable. She also started head shaking dramatically so I phoned the dealer after about 2 weeks and said I'd need to return her. He was ok with that, I know I would have lost money in the return but better that than have a dangerous horse. However, around the same time I managed to trace a previous owner from the name & address in the passport and talking to her really put my mind at ease as she confirmed that the behaviour I was seeing was out of character. I kept the mare in the end and she gradually improved. Now 2 years on she's a different horse and I wouldn't change her for the world. I realise now that she was just stressed about the change of yard, owner, feed, routine etc. I'd recommend that you try to contact a previous owner by searching on Facebook, linked in, google etc and see if you can get an opinion from someone who knows her. Good luck with whatever you decide to do.
 
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