Advice on shoeing/ hoof wear

[wilberforce]

Good luck & please let us know the outcome - my main reason for going barefoot is arthritis & also having had to change farrier don't think he's doing her justice! Its a minefield like most things with horses - have a look at the website Rockley farm there's a whole heap of helpful information which Ive only just discovered through this forum!

yes, i have been doing a lot of research as a result of all the great comments here. I did see rockley farm - i had a look at their blog too - very inspiring and makes me not want to go back to shoes. My boy has never been forward going and i wonder if maybe he has never been comfortable in shoes? the journey will be interesting! im still worried about laminitis though - he shows no outward signs of it - i would be devastated if he has had it or seedy toe!

 

[wilberforce]

argh! it has been a worrying week and im so cross with myself for not doing something sooner, questioning or insisting that the farrier was wrong. His shoes are coming off on sunday - different farrier and i will be interested to see if he is more insightful. Thank you eveyone for your comments - it has definitely helped my decision to make a change and not accept this is how it is!

 

[milliepops]

Its fascinating isn't it - I have merrily been having my horses shod for decades but have only recently started to question the logic behind this! Slow on the uptake maybe but my whole ethos has swung to the natural way of doing things because we have been stung by so many problems by keeping our horses the "modern" way & are now being forced to question everything. I remember when we were children our ponies lived out 24/7, never had their teeth done, rarely wormed, never had saddles checked, there weren't such things as physios, & in 20 years never had a sick day in their lives!

Urrrm just a minute... plenty of those horses in the old days did their job because they were stoical generous animals who just carried on despite having sore mouths, bad backs and poorly fitting tack. Take off the rose tinted spectacles

good luck OP, not all farriers are from the stone age, I'm married to one who will discuss the pros and cons of various things and be happy to spend time explaining or discussing things with interested clients. Has plenty of barefoot horses on his round too. As for not discussing each other's work.. well they will do on the quiet if they don't think you're going to gossip it all over the place. Same as how you will rarely find a physio dissing an osteopath etc, the horse world is a small one and word gets around

 

[Pinkvboots]

It's not the end of the world if it is seedy toe but you must treat it or the infection can travel up into the pedal bone, and that is a horrible op as my mare had it,

Going barefoot does not require any sort of specialist or podiatrist, my farrier trims my barefoot horse they just have to be mindful and not cut the frog back and take too much off, my horse transitioned from it pretty well his not as comfy on very stony ground but is fine on the roads.

 

[tallyho!]

I'm often horrified by the things I see posted by farriers. Someone posted a picture of a hoof of a sound hardworking barefoot horse the other day on Facebook and a farrier, who unfortunately works with apprentices at a local agricultural college complained that the horse was walking on its sole and put down whoever had trimmed it. The hoof in question had loads of concavity and looked pretty tough and calloused round the edges of the sole.

It's a complete miracle how horses in the wild (not that there's many left due to the evil BLM!) ever survive without little bent bits of metal nailed to their feet to protect their soles.... Praaaaiiise the Lorrrrd!

p.s. I'm not a complete anarchist... shoes where shoes are required but really - what horses warrant a full set all year round? Roads are the perfect surface; grass/surface is where we do most riding; tracks are totally achievable! I used to think you absolutely needed shoes for eventing until I saw eventers with no shoes at eventing and hunting, mine included!

 

[splashgirl45]

horses in the wild are not carrying extra weight in the form of a rider and quite often domesticated horses are also overweight themselves., so a double whammy.. no one should be blinkered and always shoe but also the same must be said for going without shoes as well. each horse is an individual and each owner has a different set of things to overcome, so there is no right or wrong in this debate....

 

[tallyho!]

Its fascinating isn't it - I have merrily been having my horses shod for decades but have only recently started to question the logic behind this! Slow on the uptake maybe but my whole ethos has swung to the natural way of doing things because we have been stung by so many problems by keeping our horses the "modern" way & are now being forced to question everything. I remember when we were children our ponies lived out 24/7, never had their teeth done, rarely wormed, never had saddles checked, there weren't such things as physios, & in 20 years never had a sick day in their lives!

I agree! Despite what milliepops says about rose tinted glasses!!! Although, everyon'es experiences are different after all....

 

[tallyho!]

horses in the wild are not carrying extra weight in the form of a rider and quite often domesticated horses are also overweight themselves., so a double whammy.. no one should be blinkered and always shoe but also the same must be said for going without shoes as well. each horse is an individual and each owner has a different set of things to overcome, so there is no right or wrong in this debate....

Most are pregnant all the time so yes they do carry extra weight.

 

[Gloi]

Most are pregnant all the time so yes they do carry extra weight.

I was thinking that, though only half of them are pregnant

 

[splashgirl45]

and a pregnant wild horse is unlikely to be as fat as some domesticated horses who have to carry the extra weight of a rider...

 

[ycbm]

horses in the wild are not carrying extra weight in the form of a rider and quite often domesticated horses are also overweight themselves., so a double whammy.. no one should be blinkered and always shoe but also the same must be said for going without shoes as well. each horse is an individual and each owner has a different set of things to overcome, so there is no right or wrong in this debate....

I'd be very happy to hear your explanation of how peripheral loading on a shoe helps a horse carry the weight of a rider and a bit of blubber?

 

[tallyho!]

and a pregnant wild horse is unlikely to be as fat as some domesticated horses who have to carry the extra weight of a rider...

Have you followed any of the wild horse groups on Facebook? They do get very fat at certain times of year. It’s how they are supposed to be... the domestic problem is they are fat all year round. That’s the issue for feet... not the weight.

Stallions or batchelor horses are also much heavier than domestic ones as they are running and fighting all the time. They are extremely muscular and fit.

Their hooves are comparatively small and compact so again, weight has not a lot to do with what a hoof can bear... a healthy hoof will deal with whatever is up top. An unhealthy hoof will not carry anything.

 

[Graeme Burt farrier]

As someone who remembers the days before farriers registration and who's boss was part of the campaign team who brought about farriers registration, Im pretty horrified by attitudes of owners who would wish to get rid of the FRC.

Its true to say that bureaucracies like this do take time to respond to changes and I would be the first to say that some of the things done are rooted in the very distant past and need updating. I'm a big supporter of barefoot and the majority of my clients have barefooters, but there quite definately is a place for shoeing, training and specialities, indeed there are quite a lot of horses that I shoe that would not be alive or remotely able to function without shoes or additional treatments to the feet helped by shoes. As with shoes, there are also some horses who can not deal with barefoot without severe problems.

Before 1975 registration there were cases of travellers, criminals and all sorts without any form of training whatsoever who simply bought a van and set themselves up as jobbing farriers.
I've seen horses crippled up by a group of travellers who simply bought machine made shoes and without any kind of fitting, trimming or alteration simply banged them on with roofing nails. Abscesses which were bunged up with car filler of fibreglass glues without any knowledge of the structures withing that were being permanently damaged by so doing. Hoof walls of laminitics penetrated with a domestic drill in order to 'release the pressure of blood that was causing the pain'.
Many of these horses were crippled, unsaveable and had to be shot.

A lot of these were done cheaply to undermine the costs incurred when using properly trained and qualified farriers at the time. The resulting elimination of the farriers livelihoods resulted in them either being lost to the profession entirely when they retrained to go into other better protected trades, saw them emigrating and at least three occasions saw them commit suicide taking a deal of experience with them.

The farriers registration act 1975 and its subsequent amendments may be flawed, but it did bring about changes to standards and largely eliminated cowboy farriers who had no qualifications. That was done to save the lives of horses from bad malpractice, and largely it succeeded.
I would say to those who would like to bring about the elimination of the FRC, be careful what you wish for.

 

[ycbm]

Have you read the thread Graeme? There isn't a word in it about, never mind against, the FRC.

But while you are here, has the trimming and care of hard working barefoot horses been added to the training syllabus yet? Or does whether you receive that training still depend on whether the person you train with has hard working barefoot horses in his books?

And has the FRC yet recognised that by far the most successful way of resolving lameness originating from soft tissue injuries in the foot is to remove the shoes and rehab barefoot? Or is it still training farriers to use bar shoes for that?

 

[be positive]

Have you read the thread Graeme? There isn't a word in it about, never mind against, the FRC.

But while you are here, has the trimming and care of hard working barefoot horses been added to the training syllabus yet? Or does whether you receive that training still depend on whether the person you train with has hard working barefoot horses in his books?

And has the FRC yet recognised that by far the most successful way of resolving lameness originating from soft tissue injuries in the foot is to remove the shoes and rehab barefoot? Or is it still training farriers to use bar shoes for that?

I think the FRC would have a difficult situation regarding barefoot for treating lame horses as the "treatment" is normally prescribed by vets who are even less likely to recommend barefoot to the average client who has insurance to pay the bill, farriers are trained to use remedial shoeing but I suspect that training, when in college, is also mainly done by vets.

 

[milliepops]

Have you read the thread Graeme? There isn't a word in it about, never mind against, the FRC.

think he was responding to post #26.

 

[Graeme Burt farrier]

Yes my apologies it was post number 26 that prompted my reply, but I could not get the quote to work.
be positive ... thank you
this would have almost been my response word for word. Farriers are subservient to vets, whether we like it or not.
Personally, I dont like bar shoes at all, in my experience there are far better ways of getting support and I have had both good and bad experiences using barefoot rehab, its not suited to all horses and all foot types. I've had a lot of success protectively shoeing, dare I say it more so than barefoot, and also using casts in some situations. Both have drawbacks that are different and that are different to barefoot rehab, but are suited to different horses with different problems.

 

[wilberforce]

soo....i am really pleased with my new farrier - he agreed that the hooves are 'broken forward' and that he needs to grow more toe. There was no wall at the toe because the previous farrier had 'dubbed' off the toe and they looked stumpy. His feet were not even level . My horse will be barefoot until his feet can adjust to the shape they should be. The new farrier said there is no reason why he couldnt go barefoot as hes a cob but also believes shoes have a place if the horse is not coping or doing alot of work. I will do whats best for my horse. He said, if he was to shoe, it would be done differently - i.e a better job! im glad i went with my gut instinct. Thanks for all the great comments

 

[ester]

good to read a positive update

 

[tallyho!]

Nowhere in post 26 does it say "get rid of the frc" as Graeme Burt Farrier eludes to. I even said shoes are useful in some circumstances. It actually points out that FRC is outdated. Something GBF seems to agree with and credit to him, he is open to new research and new findings about modern domestic uses of the horse.... most people drive cars now on super smooth roads, not horses on cobbled dirty streets with a nosebag for fuel. The one thing barefoot trimmers are addressing is the way horses are now being used... the holistic care of each individual horse, today, at the source of the problem, not the symptoms - when often its too late.

What I find astonishing is the apparent (by some members only maybe - but the way it's said is like the whole of the FRC feels the same) dismissal of any evidence whatsoever, and how shoes are the answer to everything.

Please, no need to defend the FRC as that puts you in the same camp, but if you have anything constructive to report about how the FRC are taking on board any new evidence then that will be welcomed.

 

[paddy555]

But while you are here, has the trimming and care of hard working barefoot horses been added to the training syllabus yet? Or does whether you receive that training still depend on whether the person you train with has hard working barefoot horses in his books?

in the absence of a reply I think that answer to that question may be "No" as it always has been.

 

[bubsqueaks]

soo....i am really pleased with my new farrier - he agreed that the hooves are 'broken forward' and that he needs to grow more toe. There was no wall at the toe because the previous farrier had 'dubbed' off the toe and they looked stumpy. His feet were not even level . My horse will be barefoot until his feet can adjust to the shape they should be. The new farrier said there is no reason why he couldnt go barefoot as hes a cob but also believes shoes have a place if the horse is not coping or doing alot of work. I will do whats best for my horse. He said, if he was to shoe, it would be done differently - i.e a better job! im glad i went with my gut instinct. Thanks for all the great comments

That's great to hear - this has been such an interesting thread/discussion - we are having shoes taken off Thursday & are questioning absolutely everything with our horses - best of luck.