Advice on shoeing/ hoof wear

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wilberforce

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My horse seems to be wearing his toes. Sometimes it gets so bad I can stick a hoof pick inbetween his toe and shoe, you can see straight through it. Initially my farrier said it was because I was riding him a lot, I didn’t buy that. It was summer so I thought maybe the hot weather and dry ground was contributing to it. Now it’s happening over the winter. These shoes have only been on for 3 weeks and ridden in about 4-6 times. I’m now thinking it’s an issue with the shoeing and the work of my farrier. He doesn’t drag his feet. His toes are wearing back on all four feet. Any advice would be welcomed. Thanks in advanceIMG_0751.JPGIMG_0754.JPGIMG_0749.JPGIMG_0755.JPGIMG_0761.JPGIMG_0762.JPGIMG_0763.JPGIMG_0764.JPGIMG_0766.JPGIMG_0770.JPG
 
I can't see how that can be wear, when the horse has shoes on. It is, however characteristic of the way the feet of some laminitic horses feet grow with a curl up of the toe. I would be concerned about laminitis and possibly cushings.
 
ycbm said:
I can't see how that can be wear, when the horse has shoes on. It is, however characteristic of the way the feet of some laminitic horses feet grow with a curl up of the toe. I would be concerned about laminitis and possibly cushings.
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They look similar to the feet of a pony I had here that had cushings but was not laminitic, he was shod by a different farrier to the rest of the yard and once the shoe was fitted he always ran the rasp around the toe between the toe and the shoe,which made it look like yours, he ended up with slight seedy toe which was getting worse so I got the owner to use my farrier and they improved straight away, he later had the shoes off and worked barefoot for the last year or two.

The shoes look to be well fitted but I wonder if he rasps the toes back to "tidy up" after they are on rather than trimming before burning on or as ester asked is he shod cold?
 
Sometimes seedy toe can cause a gap at the front of the hoof when they are shod, my mare used to get it she had cushings as well, your farrier should know if it's seedy toe, when he takes the shoe off ask to have a look, the toe will look white and almost flake off it sort of goes soft, there are treatments you can use I used antibac and Milton sterilizing fluid on a few occasions and it did clear up.
 
Gloi said:
Have you asked the farrier, that would be my first port of call, he might know what is going on
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yes i asked the farrier and he said it was because i was riding alot - i wasnt convinced - shoes should go thin first surely? however, no its winter this cant possibly be the reason
 
be positive said:
They look similar to the feet of a pony I had here that had cushings but was not laminitic, he was shod by a different farrier to the rest of the yard and once the shoe was fitted he always ran the rasp around the toe between the toe and the shoe,which made it look like yours, he ended up with slight seedy toe which was getting worse so I got the owner to use my farrier and they improved straight away, he later had the shoes off and worked barefoot for the last year or two.

The shoes look to be well fitted but I wonder if he rasps the toes back to "tidy up" after they are on rather than trimming before burning on or as ester asked is he shod cold?
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oh god - i hope it isnt cushings! the farrier does leave a little toe and rasps it once the shoes are on. im considering going barefoot
 
I agree with you on that, it would be interesting to see how they fit when first on. We had one on loan that we experienced a similar affect on but partly because he did knock his toes (not noticeable when riding) and when shod with the shoe set back and two clips trashed the front wall of his hooves and exposed the white line but yours doesn't look quite the same.
As such I would definitely query white line disease (which if it has been going on that long a cleantrax soak would be appropriate to start but you need a farrier that can wait.

I'd also be pretty unhappy with that response from the farrier and probably looking to change as a result.

ETA if you are considering barefoot it would make any WLD much easier to treat.
 
if he is wearing the toes down first, is he landing toe first? my mare started doing this and after hoof x rays she was found to have soft tissue damage so was saving her heels , the next step was mri scan and then to inject the point of damage, as she had cushings i did not want to risk laminitis so she was managed by only riding when the ground was soft which meant not much riding in the summer which was a pain....
 
^^ that's easy to check with some slow mo video OP, but you need to get the camera down at ground level and walk the horse past it, don't pan the camera at all.
 
Looking at the pictures again it looks like the toes have been rasped back quite a bit. If the farrier has rasped back as far as the white line and the white line is not sound, that may be the problem. As others have said it could be a result of laminitis or Cushings. It will do no harm to reduce the sugars in his diet and feed a good hoof supplement like those from Progressive Earth.
 
ester said:
^^ that's easy to check with some slow mo video OP, but you need to get the camera down at ground level and walk the horse past it, don't pan the camera at all.
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i have already checked that on someones elses recommendation - he is landing heel first. But maybe i need to film it and slo it down just incase it is very subtle.
Gloi said:
Looking at the pictures again it looks like the toes have been rasped back quite a bit. If the farrier has rasped back as far as the white line and the white line is not sound, that may be the problem. As others have said it could be a result of laminitis or Cushings. It will do no harm to reduce the sugars in his diet and feed a good hoof supplement like those from Progressive Earth.
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i hope it isnt laminitis. He is exercise alot and doesnt carry fat pockets anywhere. I know slim ponies can get laminitis too. I also care for a pony with EMS so i know what a nightmare it can be. He is on a forage plus balancer - similar to progressive earth and has extra salt.
 
im trying to get someone take his shoes off asap and im wondering if i should contact a vet or give his feet time to adjust without shoes and see if it is still happening?
 
Ok so it's pretty unusual for a horse in shoes to land heel first, which might make me wonder if his toes were ok.
If he were mind I would take the shoes off, have a good look at his feet, do some cleantrax soaks and see where we were in a couple of weeks.
 
wilberforce said:
yes i asked the farrier and he said it was because i was riding alot - i wasnt convinced - shoes should go thin first surely? however, no its winter this cant possibly be the reason
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seriously.... I'd be asking for a second opnion if my farrier said that

That is seedy toe... your horse probably has hoof balance issues as they tend to go hand in hand. Do consider lami or cushings.
 
wilberforce said:
im trying to get someone take his shoes off asap and im wondering if i should contact a vet or give his feet time to adjust without shoes and see if it is still happening?
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Im about to go barefoot & have found a recommend specialist to help me as there is a lot involved but a key point is if you get the farrier to remove the shoes don't let them rasp or trim - Im just not sure I trust farriers having the best intent or knowledge unless of course you are very lucky to have a good one! In one conversation with the specialist she told me so much more than several farriers ever have - good luck
 
bubsqueaks said:
Im about to go barefoot & have found a specialist to help me as there is a lot involved but a key point is if you get the farrier to remove the shoes don't let them rasp or trim - Im just not sure I trust farriers having the best intent or knowledge unless of course you are very lucky to have a good one! In one conversation with the specialist she told me so much more than several farriers ever have - good luck
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i have found a specialist and he is taking shoes off on sunday - phew, cant wait to get them off. Will see what he says - slightly nervous to see if he is any good. My farrier was never especially interested in answering my questions or trying to explain things to me. All he wanted to do is gossip!
 
tallyho! said:
seriously.... I'd be asking for a second opnion if my farrier said that

That is seedy toe... your horse probably has hoof balance issues as they tend to go hand in hand. Do consider lami or cushings.
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i have tried to get a second opinion - can you believe that farriers wont comment on others work - farrier code of practice apparently, how is that any good!!?
 
Good luck & please let us know the outcome - my main reason for going barefoot is arthritis & also having had to change farrier don't think he's doing her justice! Its a minefield like most things with horses - have a look at the website Rockley farm there's a whole heap of helpful information which Ive only just discovered through this forum!
 
wilberforce said:
i have tried to get a second opinion - can you believe that farriers wont comment on others work - farrier code of practice apparently, how is that any good!!?
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It isn’t. The FRC are an antiquated club that belong in the Middle Ages. They are doing their young trainees a disservice in my eyes and halting progress where progress is marching on happily without them.

Adapt or die out. I think they are firmly on course for the latter.
 
tallyho! said:
It isn’t. The FRC are an antiquated club that belong in the Middle Ages. They are doing their young trainees a disservice in my eyes and halting progress where progress is marching on happily without them.

Adapt or die out. I think they are firmly on course for the latter.
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Its fascinating isn't it - I have merrily been having my horses shod for decades but have only recently started to question the logic behind this! Slow on the uptake maybe but my whole ethos has swung to the natural way of doing things because we have been stung by so many problems by keeping our horses the "modern" way & are now being forced to question everything. I remember when we were children our ponies lived out 24/7, never had their teeth done, rarely wormed, never had saddles checked, there weren't such things as physios, & in 20 years never had a sick day in their lives!
 
I'm often horrified by the things I see posted by farriers. Someone posted a picture of a hoof of a sound hardworking barefoot horse the other day on Facebook and a farrier, who unfortunately works with apprentices at a local agricultural college complained that the horse was walking on its sole and put down whoever had trimmed it. The hoof in question had loads of concavity and looked pretty tough and calloused round the edges of the sole.
 
tallyho! said:
It isn’t. The FRC are an antiquated club that belong in the Middle Ages. They are doing their young trainees a disservice in my eyes and halting progress where progress is marching on happily without them.

Adapt or die out. I think they are firmly on course for the latter.
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yes i totally agree
 
Gloi said:
I'm often horrified by the things I see posted by farriers. Someone posted a picture of a hoof of a sound hardworking barefoot horse the other day on Facebook and a farrier, who unfortunately works with apprentices at a local agricultural college complained that the horse was walking on its sole and put down whoever had trimmed it. The hoof in question had loads of concavity and looked pretty tough and calloused round the edges of the sole.
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yes i realise this now - worried if the next one will be any good - it is a minefield out there
 
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