Advice on shoot not following protocol

[Starzaan]

Sounds like the beaters on your left were driving the birds over towards the guns on your right, who were firing away from the road as the birds go over. This is a standard set up. Sorry, but if the drive has already started, they cannot stop (and probably can't hear you because of ear protection).

It's usual to have a spotter and stop drives if they see a hazard (e.g. riders) approaching on the road, but only BEFORE the shooting starts.

I have sympathy, having been in the same situation with a ride of children, but the shoot didn't do anything wrong.
You should be extremely proud of your horses. Many would kill for such steadiness.

I’m afraid this is correct. I would suggest getting a card from your local gamekeeper with the shoot dates on it, and if you’re friendly with him ask him what order he tends to do the drives in, that way you know where to avoid at what time.

 

[visa_bot]

I have reported it to the police through an online form so we'll see what happens. It makes me feel better that I have done something. Thank you all for your help.

 

[canteron]

A horse hating gamekeeper around here used to purposely shoot towards the horses out of malice.

I reported him to the police after a particularly scary incident. They gave him a warning and explained the would take his gun licence away if they had to.

I met the landowner a couple of years later, who said he had eventually sacked him, but he hated horses too!!!

 

[Fransurrey]

Sounds like the beaters on your left were driving the birds over towards the guns on your right, who were firing away from the road as the birds go over. This is a standard set up. Sorry, but if the drive has already started, they cannot stop (and probably can't hear you because of ear protection).

It's usual to have a spotter and stop drives if they see a hazard (e.g. riders) approaching on the road, but only BEFORE the shooting starts.

I have sympathy, having been in the same situation with a ride of children, but the shoot didn't do anything wrong.
You should be extremely proud of your horses. Many would kill for such steadiness.

Nonsense. Hand signals are used (or should be) to stop gun fire. It might not be possible to stop the beaters in full flow or the birds taking off, but if you can't halt gun fire immediately it's a major safety issue. With reference to your later comment, yes, anything can cause an accident. That doesn't mean you don't bother risk assessing and do everything you can to minimise the accident.

Sympathies OP. I've had the shoot shooting over my head on a footpath before now (I had the hot shot land on my legs). I've also ridden past a shoot that wouldn't stop, despite me struggling to hold my pony (I was new to the area and they hadn't started shooting until I was too close to turn back - he'd have bolted). Sounds about par for the course. The shoots near me are full of arrogant arses who stop for nothing.

Agree it's a police issue if they're shooting next to or over a highway.

 

[Sossigpoker]

Do report this incident to the police, you were placed in danger while on a public highway. The rules around shooting are far too lax, but weak though they are, they were wilfully breached by the shoot you encountered.

You might want to copy in the governing body for shooting, whatever it is, but your priority is to report it to the police. Don't get fobbed off.

https://www.sportingshooter.co.uk/s...e-law-on-shooting-shotguns-near-roads-6312224

Shooting a shotgun within 50 feet of a highway is not prohibited in England and Wales, but an offence is committed if, as the result of firing a shotgun, someone is injured or placed in danger. This could easily be the result of a shot charge over the head of a walker or cyclist, pellets dropping on a vehicle or striking it, a horse and rider alarmed by the sound of a shot or, in the worst scenario, a passer-by hit by pellets.

I tried to report shooting over a bridleway some years ago and unsurprisingly, the police couldn't care less. I thought I was going to get shot! But they just said I should have turned around once I heard the shots. ?

 

[Tiddlypom]

I’m afraid this is correct. I would suggest getting a card from your local gamekeeper with the shoot dates on it, and if you’re friendly with him ask him what order he tends to do the drives in, that way you know where to avoid at what time.

No, no, no . I am equally appalled but unsurprised at what the pro shoot types think to be acceptable and safe practice.

Beating on one side of a public highway so that the birds are frightened into the air to fly over the road to be shot at on the other side is an utterly unsafe practice, and should fail the most cursory of risk assessments.

No member of the public should be expected to have a quiet word with the organisers of a shoot to avoid being put in danger when riding on a road - its up to the shoot to make sure that they don't create a foreseeable danger to unsuspecting members of the public in the first place.

OP, I am glad that you have reported this incident to the police. You can see what entrenched and entitled attitudes you are up against within shooting.

Yes, it is clear that I despise the sport. Not least because my late Dad (eye surgeon) used to have to attempt to repair the damage done by numpties with guns to themselves and to others, and the tales of sheer idiocy that he could tell were hair raising. But while game shooting is still legal, it must be carried out in as safe a manner as possible.

 

[Clodagh]

Sounds like the beaters on your left were driving the birds over towards the guns on your right, who were firing away from the road as the birds go over. This is a standard set up. Sorry, but if the drive has already started, they cannot stop (and probably can't hear you because of ear protection).

It's usual to have a spotter and stop drives if they see a hazard (e.g. riders) approaching on the road, but only BEFORE the shooting starts.

I have sympathy, having been in the same situation with a ride of children, but the shoot didn't do anything wrong.
You should be extremely proud of your horses. Many would kill for such steadiness.

They can stop, I pick up on a really big shoot in Devon and they stop whenever someone is passing. We stopped for a lot of kayakers last week passing on the river below the drive.

 

[Clodagh]

Footpaths and bridleways are different as they belong to the landowner. Many people think they are public land but they aren’t, they are a right of access only over private land.
That said on our shoot before we moved we would ask footpath walkers to wait if the drive had started. If they didn’t (which never happened in fact) we would have stopped the drive until they had passed.

 

[Cob Life]

Sounds like the beaters on your left were driving the birds over towards the guns on your right, who were firing away from the road as the birds go over. This is a standard set up. Sorry, but if the drive has already started, they cannot stop (and probably can't hear you because of ear protection).

It's usual to have a spotter and stop drives if they see a hazard (e.g. riders) approaching on the road, but only BEFORE the shooting starts.

I have sympathy, having been in the same situation with a ride of children, but the shoot didn't do anything wrong.
You should be extremely proud of your horses. Many would kill for such steadiness.

I agree with this, with about 50% of our beaters being horsey or horsey oh if we see riders before a drive starts we 1) wave to ensure they know we are there 2) wait for them to pass but if a drive has started it’s very hard to stop

 

[Tiddlypom]

Why is a drive very hard to stop? It is essential that it can stopped immediately in the case of an accident or incident.

Sounds like procedures in some/most shoots need a complete overhaul .

 

[Orangehorse]

I don't disapprove of shooting, but I do not think that this shoot was operating correctly, not next to a 60 mph road.

BASC, the shooting membership organisation, is forever stating that shoots should be careful and responsible and thinking of their public image, so this shoot certainly failed.

 

[catembi]

What a scary situation to be in. I once wanted to hack my very volatile 4 yo & heard shooting in the countryside to the right of the yard so I deliberately went in completely the other direction, but on the way back the shoot had moved so were between me and home. No way of getting past. I thought I would stand quietly (!) until they stopped & then scuttle past, but nope, someone on a quad zoomed right up to us revving away on purpose, 4 yo was extremely upset so I had to keep going. The way home was down a steep bridleway & across a busy A road, 4 yo was absolutely beside himself & I had visions of careering head first downhill & then straight across the road. Made it home alive somehow but I was so shaken & upset that I had rerouted myself on purpose, still found myself in the middle of it & then forced to go on due to the quad. So fully sympathise with you.

 

[Marigold4]

Once the shooting season has started round here I don't hack out unless it's a Sunday. I'm in the middle of two big shoots and it's too much of a risk. Both shoots drink alcohol - hip flasks, pub lunches - some city types who barely know how to hold a gun

 

[PeterNatt]

It is illegal to fire a shotgun or gun across a Public Highway or within 50 feet of the middle of a Public Highway.
In the event of a problem contact your local Police and ask them for the contact details of the local Firearms Officer who will be only to pleased to visit the shoot concerned and advise them that if this is ever repeated that they will; all stand to loose their gun licenses.
There is also a leaflet 'The Code of Good Shooting Practice' which is endorsed by the Countryside Alliance, Shooting Times, The National Gamekeepers Association, The British Association of Shooting Clubs, The Country Landowners Association and The Game Conservancy Trust. It is available from the Code of Good Shooting Practice Tel: 01244 573019.
www.codeofgoodshootingpractice.org.uk You can download it from this link

 

[Velcrobum]

I live in the vicinity of 4 large and very large estates that run shoots for the uber wealthy (about £5 k per gun per day minimum) fortunately the estates are large enough for all shooting to take place within the estate. There is certainly alcohol big lunches etc etc as they are all part of the package.........

 

[HappyHorses:)]

Can’t believe it’s still allowed really. So many animal rights people jumped on hunting yet not shooting. Just a ponder ?

 

[druid]

Can’t believe it’s still allowed really. So many animal rights people jumped on hunting yet not shooting. Just a ponder ?

They get just as much anti grief as hunts do - some antis were just done for aggravated trespass on a pheasant shoot

 

[Tiddlypom]

Antis have been disrupting shoots recently, though I'm not sure if they deliberately target them or just act if they come across them while looking for a hunt to target.

Thanks, PeterNatt, here is a direct link to the Code of Good Shooting Practice.

http://www.codeofgoodshootingpractice.org.uk/pdf/COGSP.pdf

Some highlights below (there is much more in the full version).

3. Consideration for others

• The frequency of shooting must not give rise to unreasonable nuisance (particularly noise) to neighbours.

• Shoot managers must have obtained permission before entering neighbouring property, especially during a shoot.

• Avoid birds and spent shot falling on to public places, roads and neighbouring property.

The public highway

• Shoot managers and Guns must ensure that shooting does not obstruct, cause danger or alarm to users of the public highway, including roads, bridleways, footpaths and other rights of way.

• Guns should note that to shoot across any form of public right of way, e.g. a footpath or bridleway that is in use by walkers or riders may constitute a public nuisance (a criminal offence) or wilful obstruction. There may also be a liability in negligence if it is known that people are on, or likely to be on, such a right of way

• In particular, care should be taken when siting Guns near carriageways including roads. Section 161 of the Highways Act 1980 (England & Wales) makes it an offence to discharge a firearm within 50 ft of the centre of a highway with vehicular rights without lawful authority or excuse, if as a result a user of the highway is injured, interrupted or endangered

• Information signs, if appropriate, should be erected on shoot days on footpaths or bridleways.

Horses and walkers
• Shoot managers and Guns must have special regard to the safety of riders and their horses. Noise from gunfire, beaters working in cover adjacent to bridleways or falling shot can alarm horses and endanger riders.

• Shoot organisers should liaise with local riders or yards, informing them when shoots are taking place.

• Shooting or beating should be paused to allow horses or other rights of way users to pass.


• All Guns should be made aware of bridleways and other rights of way and of any land to which the public have access by right or by permission, as well as any fields in which horses are kept. Drives should be organised with this in mind.

If you find yourself on a shoot and feel that the Code is not being complied with, either in aspects of game management, or the organisation of the day, or by individual Guns, then you should raise the matter with those concerned. All the organisations which endorse the Code will be behind you in this and so will every responsible shooter.

If non-compliance is flagrant and there is no indication that reform and self-correction will occur, please report the issue to the Secretary of The Code of Good Shooting Practice whose contact details appear overleaf. The Committee that oversees this Code on behalf of all our organisations will investigate and bring pressure to bear to correct substantiated breaches.

If reform does not occur, the membership organisations that sponsor this Code
can expel offenders and have done so in the past.

 

[conkers]

I had a very similar thing happen to me a few years back - riding along a road before all hell broke loose. I did see people with dogs walking across the field but didn't think much of it as it was a public footpath and it was in the Peak District so a big area for walking. They definately saw me before and during their drive but carried on regardless. They definately saw me afterwards as I was not best pleased and gave them a bit of a hard chat about checking for other people when shooting so close to and across a road.

Luckily, the horse I was on is an absolute saint and just bounced about on the spot but it was a close run thing. The incident was a contributing factor to me giving up riding.