Advice on situation, should I change vets?

[Ambers Echo]

Also I’m not into pro bashing either but I do believe professionals need to be held accountable for their treatment choices. I’ve been the subject of 2 formal complaints - neither upheld. I did not resent the patients : they had poor outcomes and were understandably distressed and angry. And I have also investigated my colleagues whom I like and respect. Again it’s just part of the job. Where serious failing ARE identified then there are reviews / recommendations/ retraining/ new protocols. It’s one of the ways professionals learn and improve.

 

[Goldenstar]

OMG that’s horrendous, Firstly I would write a time line of everything that’s gone on what was said and when .
This has gone seriously wrong .
The horse needs to see a wound specialist quickly .
Don’t ever let a receptionist ( or a vet) tell you what a emergency is if you want a vet demand one when you have that feeling.
Wound care is very expensive I really feel for you .
You may still get the horse through this but you need to find the right vet .

Get him to another vet ask friends or even a experienced local horsy person even if you don’t know them who they would go to or get them to ask their vet where they would go .
You need to find out wants effected /or and infected and if it is why,I fear from looking at that it may be bone .
Act now save your horse .
Then don’t pay the bill , if you are a BHS a member ring them and use the legal helpline get some proper advice bit in your shoes I would be thinking about sending the vets a letter very measured very unemotional laying out why you think their service was fallen below what’s reasonable .I would be tempted to say you will only be paying half the bill .
One thing I have learnt over the years is when your guts tell you something is not right listen to it and never be afraid to demand access a specialist vets .
Vets sometimes don’t like that but stuff that they are not left with an impaired horse to deal with .

 

[Ambers Echo]

And just to reassure you - no competent professional ever ever blames a client for complaining. Either the vet did everything they could and should have done and they hope that the complaints process provides clarity and closure. Or failings are identified and the vet practice takes responsibility for those and learns whatever lesson be need to be learned. Either way, never be afraid to raise those concerns.

 

[Birker2020]

I would not have been happy...

1. When you called them on Friday night with a concern and they didn't come out until Monday.
/QUOTE]

THis^ If I called my vet to visit my horse out of hours I would expect them to come whether they deem it an emergency or not. Its as much for my peace of mind than theirs and if there is any doubt they should attend. You cannot always diagnose over the phone. I've had emergency call out vets say "well I think you will be alright until tomorrow, but its up to you, I can come out now if you'd rather".

In the words of Siegried (All Creatures Great & Small) !!
"Just remember—YOU MUST ATTEND.”

 

[Pinkvboots]

Always get insurance from day one !! Toughen up and you must confront people if you feel they have done a bad job.Would you buy a new car and not get it insured ? If you mess up with the vitals like not having the horse insured then you collect stories like this.

Your not being helpful go away

 

[Pinkvboots]

I would definitely change vets and I wouldn't be paying all the bill just yet and I would be writing to them about it and expressing there incompetence and that you feel its unfair for you to pay the bill.

I also don't agree with diagnosis over a phone and if I want a vet to come out I expect a visit not a phone consultation this alone is not good practice.

 

[JCbruce]

Update hospital called this morning said it’s not healing and that the pressure sore has caused bone damage he’s currently going under so the can see the extent of the damage and to scrape some of the bone. Further info i bandaged it for 3 weeks vet been bandaging since for 2.5 months

 

[AmyMay]

Update hospital called this morning said it’s not healing and that the pressure sore has caused bone damage he’s currently going under so the can see the extent of the damage and to scrape some of the bone. Further info i bandaged it for 3 weeks vet been bandaging since for 2.5 months

Absolute nightmare

 

[nutjob]

Update hospital called this morning said it’s not healing and that the pressure sore has caused bone damage he’s currently going under so the can see the extent of the damage and to scrape some of the bone. Further info i bandaged it for 3 weeks vet been bandaging since for 2.5 months

I feel so so sorry for you that you have to go through this. However, I do think the time has come that you need to go and have a face to face meeting or as a minimum a phone call with who ever is in charge at this practise. Do you have a confident friend or relative who could go with you, even if its just for moral support. This horse is now having £1000's of treatment and you need to be informed of the cost UPFRONT and the likely outcome UPFRONT. The owner, not the vet needs to make an informed decision. They need to tell you if they are financially covering the cost of their mistake or if you are later going to be pursued for a massive amount of money. It's particularly important if you are going to be left with a permanently lame horse at the end of this.

I have had some very bad experiences with a vet practice so I do know how awful this is but it's time to get back some control of this situation. I hope this doesn't come across as critical or harsh, it's not your fault at all but you need to have a serious and urgent talk with these vets asap.

 

[JCbruce]

I feel so so sorry for you that you have to go through this. However, I do think the time has come that you need to go and have a face to face meeting or as a minimum a phone call with who ever is in charge at this practise. Do you have a confident friend or relative who could go with you, even if its just for moral support. This horse is now having £1000's of treatment and you need to be informed of the cost UPFRONT and the likely outcome UPFRONT. The owner, not the vet needs to make an informed decision. They need to tell you if they are financially covering the cost of their mistake or if you are later going to be pursued for a massive amount of money. It's particularly important if you are going to be left with a permanently lame horse at the end of this.

I have had some very bad experiences with a vet practice so I do know how awful this is but it's time to get back some control of this situation. I hope this doesn't come across as critical or harsh, it's not your fault at all but you need to have a serious and urgent talk with these vets asap.

I have asked to come up this afternoon to discuss how we got to this point, what the plan is moving forward and the financial side as I have been asking for a bill. This is two separate practices my vet referred me to the hospital.

 

[Squeak]

That's really terrible and I'm really sorry you've just had more bad news. Hope that the operation today goes ok and you get clear answers.

I agree with the others who say to push to get clear answers and photos etc. tbh it's basic customer service.

In the scheme of things I doubt that getting a second opinion would cost a huge amount and it might help to put things in to perspective and make your options clearer. Just make sure you manage to get someone who is unbiased.

ETA as we cross posted - good luck for this afternoon.

 

[nutjob]

I have asked to come up this afternoon to discuss how we got to this point, what the plan is moving forward and the financial side as I have been asking for a bill. This is two separate practices my vet referred me to the hospital.

Good luck, keeping my fingers crossed for a good outcome for you and your horse both.

 

[Red-1]

Good luck this afternoon. If this wound is now involving the bone, you are struggling to pay the bill, the vet won't take some of the financial responsibility and the horse may not come back sound, I would also have the discussion about whether it may be better to PTS.

I am sorry you are in this situation.

 

[TheMule]

Terrible situation, I'm so sorry for you and the horse.
However, wit out the complete timeline and veterinary intervention received at each point I don’t think anyone on here can advise. It doesn’t sound like the pressure sores were the vet's fault so I'm not sure you'd have any come back on them.

 

[PurBee]

Im sorry youre experiencing this. Fingers crossed the op goes well and they clean-up the necrotic area for it to start healing.

Regarding how to deal with the vets/hospital, the advice given already is brilliant to make a formal complaint.

The pressure wound looks like necrotising bacteria aka ‘flesh eating bacteria’ ‘MRSA’ and im not a prof. Vet yet can see thats a wound not behaving like normal. They can look ‘clean’ because the bacteria eat dead dying infected cells, it’s nature’s answer to clean a wound but often the bacteria just keep going causing a hole and much larger wound, but the rawness of the wound and lack of any healing occurring is the sign its this class of bacteria at work. Your vet should have been on top of this like white on rice with this type of wound as they progress quickly.


A woman i know had a routine hysterectomy, her op wound was not healing and similar flesh eating bacteria process occurred. Over months a bigger and bigger hole developed, her husband described it was the size of his fist. She had to keep having ‘scrapings’ of the wound, leaving it larger and larger each time. Eventually it healed, but initial routine antibiotics and bandaging did not help - aggressive anti-bac topical and oral required.

Leaving wound open for oxygenation is preferred, as some of these bacteria prefer banadaged anaerobic conditions - but your vets should be testing samples from the scraping of the wound to identify the bacteria precisely to know which drugs to treat it with. I would be asking them to do such tests if they dont initiate it themselves.

MRSA is usually a strain of staph bacteria, yet there are others that cause these kinds of wounds.
The known agents to kill these bacteria strains have been studied and sodium hypochlorite is one (baby bottle sterilising fluid!), aswell as chlorine dioxide - at appropriate dilution, used topically.
Here’s a study showing chlorine dioxide to be better than sodium hypochlorite - yet others studies show success with SH too, its just this study show CD to be more effective. Im forwarding this on to you just in case the results show this type of bacteria and you have some info to present to your vets and discuss possible topical treatment.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25672403/

Fingers crossed for you and your horse to a good prognosis and to heal fast after surgery today.

 

[TPO]

Not commenting on OPs situation further because what's done is done and they are where they are.

When my vet was discussing worst case scenarios with me at the start of my horses stapling and then bandaging regime he did strongly impress on me the concerns with pressure sores. As my horse initally required to be bandaged over a joint the worry was there.

His worst case scenario story was a horse that needed a bone scrape and then a skin graft. I can't remember if it was the scrape or graft but one procedure had to be repeated because it didn't work initially. That horse was insured but the cost was thousands over the 5k insured amount (that included the initial injury too). My bill for visits, stapling, 4wks of bandage changing, materials, bute, sedation, antibiotics and steroid cream was just over 2.5k.

I think regardless of how you want to deal with what has happened you have to speak to the hospital about what they are planning to do and get firm costs for each procedure.

If it works how long does the horse have to stay in, what is the aftercare and costs for this. If it doesn't work what are the options and costs. I know it's hard but you have to be sensible about what you can afford.

I know people who've spent tens of thousands on vet procedures (mainly colic surgeries) to lose the horse and still have a massive bill to pay.

Once you get all the information from the hospital it'll hopefully help you to make an informed decision how to proceed.

 

[SO1]

I don't have knowledge to comment on this but it sounds awful. I hope your horse makes a good recovery.

When my horse was in hospital for a week they called every morning to let me know how he was getting on.

I know vets do make mistakes and they sometimes don't like to give advice on what is the best option as they don't know or feel confident especially younger vets.

I think a potential question is could anything have been done differently to avoid having got into this situation. If yes and the vets made the wrong judgment then it is a matter of looking at compensation or accepting that we are all human and make mistakes. The vets should be keeping you up to date with the costs of all treatment, estimate of surgery costs, after care and risks.

 

[Birker2020]

I had a horse way back in 1997 who had an accident on a fun ride, he went to a horspital in the Cotswolds as it was the one the practice I was using referred horses to.

He had severed two tendons on his hind fetlock (his whole fetlock was sliced open from one side to the other) but I was told that these weren't important tendons, so he was operated on under GA, the wound flushed out and a plaster cast was put from under his foot to just below his hock. But after a few days it was evident that he was developing pressure sores underneath so he had a second operation to remove the cast and was recast again under GA. Again after a few days he was unusually lame moving around his stable and again pressure sores had developed under the cast so a third time he was put under GA and had a third cast on.

When it was evident that this wasn't working and he was still developing pressure sores they took the cast off to further examine what was going wrong with him stood and he stretched his leg backwards and any healing that had taken place (there was very little at this point) just all came undone and he had to be pts on humane grounds.

So I agree that its an issue with healing using bandages and or/plaster cast.

To be fair in my horses case he probably didn't have the best chance because we'd been told over the phone by the on call emergency vet at the fun ride to put a tourniquet on to stop his bleeding as he had a veinous bleed that wouldn't stop. We'd been told to travel him home with it on, as the on call emergency vet couldn't attend and by the time we got home an hour later (our vet met us at the yard) any tissue had probably started to die.

I am so hoping your horse makes it and have everything crossed for him.

 

[ycbm]

Update hospital called this morning said it’s not healing and that the pressure sore has caused bone damage he’s currently going under so the can see the extent of the damage and to scrape some of the bone. Further info i bandaged it for 3 weeks vet been bandaging since for 2.5 months

Good grief I'm so sorry. I hope you get some serious compensation for this. It won't help the horse but you shouldn't be having to pay to sort out this negligent treatment.
.

 

[irishdraft]

So sorry to read this sorry saga OP . Just looking at the original cut, is/was it a lot worse or to the bone when originally happened ? & did you or vet decide to bandage , I'm not sure I would have bandaged it at all just kept very clean & monitored it. Anyway fingers and ? for a good outcome .

 

[Melody Grey]

Late to this thread, but goodness gracious OP what a nightmare! I hope there has been some positive progress?

I would be complaining loudly to (both?) vet practices involved if you haven’t already. If this doesn’t get you far, you can complain to the BEVA who (I believe) oversee equine vet professionals. Regardless of whether your initial out of hours call was deemed to be an emergency, a vet should have attended.....amongst a plethora of other missed opportunities it sounds like. Fingers crossed for you!

ETA: without significant explanation/ apology/ improvement/ substantial discounting, they could see me in court for that bill!

 

[JCbruce]

So horse is doing well so I’ve been told I had a massive break down to the receptionist at the hospital who let me come up after his operation, they have given me a new surgeon from the one who put the bandage on too tight originally. Back round on that the first surgeon who put his bandage on my horse wouldn’t put his leg down he kept slapping him on the bum to ‘bring him back into the room’ and obs he’s a professional so I trusted his judgment and that the bandage was fine. Anyway havnt seen him since they have just given me this other guy who is lovely, also since he’s had his operation my vet has called me twice to see how I am and has even stated she has been trying to keep my bills down. I just feel like everyone is walking on egg shells around me and everyone is feeling guilty. On the plus side joint taps are still clear of any infection at best he’s going to have a horrible scar but he’ll jump fine which is what he’s bred for. It’s looking at around 11k in vet bills, luckily my partner has capital but I will be trying to pay him back over the next few years. I can’t afford for anything to go wrong further. To top is off the horse is only 3, has the most impeccable temperament and this was a freak accident caused by the next doors farmers sheep running through the fields freaking out the horses and pulling the fencing down. I have all my fingers and toes crossed he comes out the other end I have never met a sweeter horse. If he doesn’t make it I don’t think I could ever get another after this. Thank you for all your comments and advice. I think it’s nearly impossible to sue a vets I’m just praying that I don’t end up with an 11k bill and a dead horse at this point.

 

[AmyMay]

Glad he’s doing well. But…….

You must have a conversation about how this happened, what could have been done differently and what reductions in costs they’re making for you.

 

[ycbm]

I have everything crossed for his recovery but please don't pay that bill without a good hard discussion about it. They are insured. You are not.
.

 

[nagblagger]

Quote - I think it’s nearly impossible to sue a vets.

Cautiously good news and i have my fingers crossed, however you can sue vets, I am having an issue with a vet practice. (not my local vets i hasten to add as they are brilliant!) I have been using guidance from the vet mediation. https://www.vetmediation.co.uk/insights/downloads/

It's early days at the moment and i will post the saga when resolved, but using their online advice the vets concerned have actually now acknowledged me- progress! You could also ask for advice from the BHS if you are a member.

 

[Melody Grey]

Please seek legal advice before even considering paying the Bill.

I also think it would be wise to consider what your cap on spending here is. I don’t mean to sound unkind, but if you’re uninsured, the bills just can’t go any further skyward. Really feel for you OP

 

[Pearlsasinger]

Another here who says get legal advice before agreeing to pay that massive bill. As someone above said, the vets are insured you are not. I can think of no reason why you should pay for their mistakes. I am glad you dome rather mite positive news and a new vet.

 

[JCbruce]

Unfortunately I have already paid the original vet just not the horse hospital yet as if I paid it in 7 days I got a 10% discount. I do not have any money left to fight the vets I have enough for my horse to be in the hospital another 10 days at £200 a day. Here’s the latest photo of the boys leg I requested photo updates on each bandage change and photo of the boy jumping because his back end is to die for. (Photo is who I brought him off I don’t believe in loose jumping 2/3 yr olds personally)

 

[nagblagger]

It does't matter if you have paid, you want 'compensation', please please get legal advice.

 

[nutjob]

You don't need money to make a formal complaint you just need determination. Start with a written complaint to the original practise and a request to speak to senior person in charge there.

Your horse looks amazing and great news that he seems to have turned a corner with his recovery.