Advice on strong horse please! :(

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sjstar23

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I have a 6 year old warmblood mare, who is still very green as was a late starter. She is only 15.3 but is REALLY strong. I have tried her in normal snaffles, snaffles with copper rollers, a dutch gag, a gag with a roller in it... etc, but nothing seems to suit her. She is incredibly strong into fences, I literally can't keep a hold of her, and if you are too strong with her she will just bounce up and down on the spot and end up rearing up. I wouldnt mind so much if she was just strong, but she is also spooky, so she will pull me into a fence, but then go to spook and duck out at the filler. She's not as bad at home - I hace jumped her round a few small courses with fillers... but away from home she is TERRIBLE. She makes up far too much distance in combinations, and down related distances, and it is impossible to check her back in between... advice please... e.g. on different bits etc. . . or in fact... does anyone want to ride her for me? ... FED UP and feeling useless
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Can you either tell, or get someone to watch you both and tell you what she is doing that makes you unable to hold her? Is she opening her mouth, crossing her jaw, putting her head above the point where the bit is effective etc?

I'm not a fan of gadgetery, but sometimes a noseband or martingale that will stop her getting away with you may help. There's no point having gadgets for the sake of it (or just adding more and more) but sometimes if you don't let them be naughty, then you don't have a fight and then she'll respect your aids more. If you're always telling her to slow down then she'll always want to ignore you, and maybe other aids too!

Then, schooling. School and school and school. Don't allow her to jump or anything she finds so fun until she'll do everything at the speed you want to.

If it were me, I'd eventually aim to take the gadgets away when you don't need them again. I know a noseband isn't really a gadget, but you know what I mean.
 
We all get fed up and feel useless sometimes with everything not just horses so before you go giving your green horse to a stronger rider go back a stage, she sounds unsure as most green horses are.

I guarantee that a different rider is not the answer as eventually you will have to get back on and nobody cares about your horse as much as you do. Go back to basics this horse and rider combination needs time and patience find yourself a good instructor who can build the horses confidence through your riding. Good Luck
 
I would have some lessons and go back to basics to make sure that you are communicating well enough and she is trained to understand that communication. You have recognised that you need help but help will be far more effective with someone watching you and helping you accordingly.
 
I have lessons on the flat, and she is quite responsive on the flat, comes back to me when I ask etc... it'swhen jumps are involved that there is a problem. I've had a lesson with Nick Skelton, and he tried to get me to ride her in draw reins... which only ended in a rearing fit... as I feared it may... at the end of the lesson he said "that is a very difficult horse to work with" and pretty much advised me to sell, but I don't want to do this as she does have a lot of potential. I think if she were at least not spooking all over the place it may help... hence wanting a stronger rider to maybe take her to a few shows to bring her on a bit, as I think that no matter what exercizes and schooling I do with her at home, ad no matter how well she starts to go at home, the problem will always be there when I take her out to shows. . . I just feel so dissapointed, as the last young horse I produced ended up fantastic, and this one just won't listen at all. She gets into her head that she wants to go fast into the fences, and nothing seems to stop her. I've tried gridwork, flatwork, transitions, pole work, etc... nothing has worked yet.
 
I have her in a running martingale and a flash noseband... she'snot crossing her jaw or opening her mouth... she is literally numb in the mouth, she gets her mind so set on running off that she just leans her whole weight against you like a train and goes!
 
Find another jump trainer! Doesnt have to be a famous name. Its just going to take time. You really do need to find someone ho is prepared to help you- not just suggest gadgets (shortcuts) and sell her, thats the easy option!

Keep at it
 
If you feel that this behaviour is made worse by particular situations would it be worth finding a friendly local RC/show centre that would let you bring her to a show, for example, and go in briefly at the end of your normal class to just school round (ie not jump) the jumps in a show situation, and maybe even briefly make one of the jumps into trot poles for you, to build her up very slowly and get her confidence? Maybe she just needs to be introduced to a variety of different things more slowly than you might expect? Just in general, it sounds like you may need to take a few steps backward, and start with some basics again as far as the jumping's concerned.
 
I agree with Teddyt - go back to basics, the real basics. It sounds to me that you are asking this horse to run before it has learnt to walk - and stop. If you have not first established control at the most basic level, ie. starting off from the ground ( long lines to backing) then it will not be possible to establish these things later.

If this horse was mine, it would be back in a cavesson re-learning the absolute basics - yield to a contact, move away from pressure. Until these are established you will always be fighting a losing battle.

Good luck !!
 
If you say shes leaning on the bit into a fence why not try a waterford snaffle or something similar which makes it difficult for leaning. My pony used to do the same in a gag and has totally changed in a pelham with 2 reins so that may help as well
 
You could try a PeeWee bit. I got one for a strong Clydie on the flat (I don't jump) and have also lent it to a friend to XC in. The mouthpiece is very effective if it suits your horse and the sidepieces stop them turning if you don't want them to, or aid turning if that's what you want.
But as others have said, going back to basics might be a good idea.
 
I agree with all of the posts above.

Sometimes there's an underlying problem not tack related. Have you had her teeth, saddle and back checked?? There maybe an issue there which you are unaware of??
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I got my dentist to look in my horses mouth and give her opinion relating to a mouth piece wise. She said that my horse had a really fat tongue and not much room in his mouth. She said that a thinner double jointed would be more comfortable for him, and he would be more relax and likely to accept it.

Do you feel like she's just all strength using her neck?? Flexing exercises and working her long and low will help soften her up and more relaxed through her neck.
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As it goes for gadgets... I will hold my hands up and say, been there done that, got the t-shirt. Harsh bits aren't the end of the world if the rider knows how to use them with care and not yank them about. Sometimes it is kinder to have a strong bit with poll pressure allowing you to squeeze your rein to steady them, then it would be to have a tug of war match with a softer bit you can't hold them in.

My horse prefers to go in a kinder bit with a more supportive noseband. I use a grackle at home as he is a monster opening and crossing his jaw. Competing I use what's called a leverage noseband, aka lever noseband and combination noseband, It's a good bit of kit. Jeffries and Stephens make them! Wouldn't be without mine!
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but different opinions, and different horses, it doesn't mean your horse will like it eh xx

My bay can be strong and forward going. I use to struggle to do anything much in the ring apart from being a passenger. So I had lessons. My instructor said, you have to work with what you have got and not fight it! It turns out, because Sam use to go so fast and bolt, I would hold his mouth, enabling him to lean and take hold of the bit and 'run away' with me. My instructor told me with him, not to hold him, to give him his mouth and push him on with my legs
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I thought she had gone mad!! But it worked from him. He finally realised I wasn't going to cling onto his mouth, and so he didn't need to run away!
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It's worth trying?? xxx
 
I would maybe remove the running martingale. Does she throw her head up? If so then maybe try a properly fitted standing martingale instead. For some horses, if they throw their head up and then get the additional pressure as a result of the martingale pulling on the reins and then mouth this can make them worse.

If she doesn't throw her head up then I wouldn't have a martingale at all to be honest.

My horse does a very similar thing - running to fences and spooking at fillers. He has always spooked but only over the ,last few years did he start really pulling. It is to do with confidence (lack of) with jumping. He lost his a one stage and I have worked to get it back plus get back my confidence in him. It has worked a lot with the help of a very good instructor! Because they are running at the fences they give the impression they are bold when in fact she could be panicking.

Go back to the beginning - lungeing over poles/fences and the riding over at walk/trot/canter etc. She is only young it sounds like she needs to start over. Maybe she started jumping before she was truly balanced in herself and didn't really know what to do.

Confidence is the key though and you need to get hers and yours back. Get yourself a good instructor you get on with - as said, it doesn't have to be a big named pro at all, just someone you click with and who gets it right with your particular problem. Good luck!!
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