Advice on very hot headed horse!

If this horse was bought from a dealer OP, is anything known about her past? Was she likes this from the beginning when OP rode her or has this problem developed? The fact that the poor horse has scars on its back which dont just suggest a poorly fitting saddle but a saddle which actually caused physical harm, then no wonder the poor thing is in such a state over being ridden. I dont suggest to be experienced with these types of horses, I have a lusitano x TB who (now retired) who I evented and showjumped, he is/was my horse of a lifetime but wow was he sensitive. He's on a totally different level of intelligence than any other horse Ive ever had. I had to amend the way I did things to suit him in order to keep him calm, I dont think you can necessarily work them the same as "regular" non-Iberian horses. I'd love a pure bred Iberian but I also am under no illusion about how sharp they can be and how easily they can be ruined. It does sound like this horse needs a professional skilled with Iberians specifically, can the owner sell the horse to one as a serious project? I dont see how the horse is fun for her and even if the horse was "fixed" by a pro and then returned to her then it doesnt sound like she has the skills to keep it on the straight and narrow. The poor horse sounds highly stressed, I dont know why the owner would continue to put the horse through it when the problem is clearly not improving and nothing is actively being done to address the issue.

As someone has already mentioned, to me an Iberian is the collie of the horse world. It doesnt IMO suit a simple family amateur life and needs a job to do. They're just too clever to do basic stuff and then I guess start to faff about.
 
DabDab said:
OP, I think all Nari is saying is that, as well meaning as you are, you probably shouldn't take on schooling this horse. It's nothing against your riding ability, it's just the training aspect, this horse needs such systematic work that it really is a job for a pro if the owner is unable to.

With a horse of you own to do and a life of your own to live, you really don't need to be taking on a horse with issues that you haven't had experience of before. If you could get the owner to see sense and get in a pro (maybe you could help her choose someone suitable if she finds the whole thing daunting).
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I completely understand and agree. I wish I could help but know I can't. I would love to try and push her to getting someone professional in but I'm cautious about over stepping that line!
 
Ellietotz said:
I completely understand and agree. I wish I could help but know I can't. I would love to try and push her to getting someone professional in but I'm cautious about over stepping that line!
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Perhaps someone who knows about the breed, Cortez? Could suggest a good person in your area. I’d then give those details to the owner and back off and let them decide what they wish to do. Sometimes there is nothing you can do unless the controlling party is willing.
 
LadyGascoyne said:
When you say she is predominately used for hacking, how far does she go? How often? And does she do varied routes? Could she be very bored?

I agree with the the collie comparison, they are working horses and usually thrive if they have a proper job. The happiest PREs I've known have all been kept very busy mentally as well as physically.

If I'd ruled out any physical issues, I'd start adding varied and challenging work and try to do two activities per day, probably one on the ground and one ridden.
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She is always hacked on different routes for an hour or more. Couple of times a week. I have mentioned to the owner that I really think she would thrive with dressage, show jumping etc, she jumps anything and everything, quick thinking and sharp. Team chasing and cross country too, she loves going fast and is competitive. I think she has so much potential. She's beautiful as well!
 
blitznbobs said:
Can you move the horse around in the canter? Shoulder in, travers etc ....
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Yes, not trained to do anything other than basic canter although collects beautifully and does nice circles etc. I don't know how to do anything other than the basic stuff if I'm honest!
 
Cortez said:
As a direct result of the large number of inexperienced, overwhelmed, incompetent and frankly deluded people who purchase themselves "dreamhorse" Spanish horses I seem to have inadvertently become a rescue centre for the distressed, mentally broken and often quite dangerous results. Not all of them are fixable, and those that are often take years of patient rehabilitation and are seldom suitable for the average rider.

If the horse is indeed an Anglo-Iberian or Trés Sangres (PRE-Arab-TB) cross, they are the hottest of the hot and really only suitable for the very skilled rider. I imagine that a life of hacking and bobbling about with an amateur rider would be pure hell for this type of horse. Poor thing. You may discern that I have very little sympathy for the rider: people should do their research before taking on horses that are out of the ordinary, admit when they are in trouble and get skilled help before they are hurt and the horse is ruined.
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I agree. She has huge potential to do much more and she needs to exercise her brain more than anything, she needs something to focus on and challenge her. I have mentioned this before to owner but I can't change anything. :(
 
Where are you based? Would the owner consider professional training now the vet checks are clear? The Dovecote in Oxfordshire has had a fair few Spanish ones in for re-training.
 
MagicMelon said:
If this horse was bought from a dealer OP, is anything known about her past? Was she likes this from the beginning when OP rode her or has this problem developed? The fact that the poor horse has scars on its back which dont just suggest a poorly fitting saddle but a saddle which actually caused physical harm, then no wonder the poor thing is in such a state over being ridden. I dont suggest to be experienced with these types of horses, I have a lusitano x TB who (now retired) who I evented and showjumped, he is/was my horse of a lifetime but wow was he sensitive. He's on a totally different level of intelligence than any other horse Ive ever had. I had to amend the way I did things to suit him in order to keep him calm, I dont think you can necessarily work them the same as "regular" non-Iberian horses. I'd love a pure bred Iberian but I also am under no illusion about how sharp they can be and how easily they can be ruined. It does sound like this horse needs a professional skilled with Iberians specifically, can the owner sell the horse to one as a serious project? I dont see how the horse is fun for her and even if the horse was "fixed" by a pro and then returned to her then it doesnt sound like she has the skills to keep it on the straight and narrow. The poor horse sounds highly stressed, I dont know why the owner would continue to put the horse through it when the problem is clearly not improving and nothing is actively being done to address the issue.

As someone has already mentioned, to me an Iberian is the collie of the horse world. It doesnt IMO suit a simple family amateur life and needs a job to do. They're just too clever to do basic stuff and then I guess start to faff about.
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Strangely enough, I mentioned that to the owner a little while a go that she is like a collie. You couldn't have a dog like that and only walk it once or twice a week, it would go mad. It constantly needs to focus on something.
I don't know where she came from before the dealer, I think she is 7 and has had a foal at a young age. Strangely enough, she was very chilled when she first arrived. Still quite green, didn't know where to put her legs at times and didn't have a clue how to gallop. Totally different matter now.
 
OP, Imayhave missed it, but has the owner asked you to school the mare, or have you offered to? If the latter I would be somewhat miffed, if I were the owner, to see this thread on social media!
If the owner is happy with her horse the way she is, then it really is none of your business, if she is askin for help, then I think that you should tell her that you are not the person to help this hoirse.
 
SEL said:
Where are you based? Would the owner consider professional training now the vet checks are clear? The Dovecote in Oxfordshire has had a fair few Spanish ones in for re-training.
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The owner has mentioned sending her to a professional but never has and it wouldn't be breed specific. I can try and hint at it but I can't do anything. I wish I could help but I know I can't. She is such a beautiful horse. She really settled when I was schooling her one time and walking her over poles, weaving in between them etc. I have said to the owner that she needs to focus on something, going forwards in straight lines is not enough for her.
 
YorksG said:
OP, Imayhave missed it, but has the owner asked you to school the mare, or have you offered to? If the latter I would be somewhat miffed, if I were the owner, to see this thread on social media!
If the owner is happy with her horse the way she is, then it really is none of your business, if she is askin for help, then I think that you should tell her that you are not the person to help this hoirse.
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No, I didn't offer, she wanted me to use up some of the "excess energy" and I said I would try.
 
Ellietotz said:
No, I didn't offer, she wanted me to use up some of the "excess energy" and I said I would try.
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see I think this is your problem the owner! maybe her idea of burning off energy is to charge around not really doing anything very educated, half hour of good schooling is quite a lot for any horse if done properly both mentally and physically, it sounds like the owner is not really interested in educating the horse properly so I think anything you try and do will be a waste of time if horses have multiple riders you all have to be doing very similar things or it just wont work, I would walk away if she is not interested in doing properly.

my guess is she may also still be sore from the badly fitting saddle her saddle may not even be right now hence the rushing and hot behaviour.
 
Ellietotz said:
Yes, not trained to do anything other than basic canter although collects beautifully and does nice circles etc. I don't know how to do anything other than the basic stuff if I'm honest!
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Then don't get on this kind of horse ... you've just clarified things for me .... shoulder in and travers are basic movements in schooling a horse
 
Pinkvboots said:
see I think this is your problem the owner! maybe her idea of burning off energy is to charge around not really doing anything very educated, half hour of good schooling is quite a lot for any horse if done properly both mentally and physically, it sounds like the owner is not really interested in educating the horse properly so I think anything you try and do will be a waste of time if horses have multiple riders you all have to be doing very similar things or it just wont work, I would walk away if she is not interested in doing properly.

my guess is she may also still be sore from the badly fitting saddle her saddle may not even be right now hence the rushing and hot behaviour.
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I agree. I wish I could do more but I can't. When I have her settled, I spend a lot of time just walking, doing circles in different places, weaving in and out and over poles and doing a nice long and low trot. Seeing her out hacking is totally different and she just looks like she has gone mad. She was purchased a few years a go now and she has had loads of physio, a long period of time off, bringing back in with gentle lunging so I would be surprised if there is still physical pain. I make sure we do lots of stretches in hand before and after, make sure her back still feels soft, hamstring stetches and carrot stretches. I would love to see her in a show ring. She has so much energy and could really be fantastic. She is stunning, confident, ridiculously fast, sharp and good on her feet. I hate being involved when I can't do anything!
 
i must say she sounds wonderful!

i find my main aim is to get a horse relaxed, without relaxation i aint going get
anywhere!

i have a tres sangres stallion so completely understand where you are coming from, and that you are dealing with a horse like no other, well that is what i found anyway.

if you want to carry on with her, you could go and have a few lessons and learn shoulder in, travers, half pass, and play with it, you won`t do any harm if you play gently.

maybe she sweats out of stress and nervousness and frustration at needing to use her brain more, i can work my horse for a good hour, hard, no sweat or panting, well just a bit damp under the saddle, but the main aim is to keep his brain working and using his putting his energy into his work, hard work, but also he is fit, it takes a long time to become truly fit.

also thinking a lot about how you approach a session of work, planning what you are going to do.

as others say long reining can be very calming, lungeing then standing in the stable for a few minutes before riding can bring a horse down, and all the other stuff like loose lunging free jumping etc, anything to make it fun while giving her something to think about and work out with her mind at the same time.

it sounds as if she needs far more actual work, in keeping with her present fitness so as not to cause leg or joint problems, but at the same time a lot more work done carefully then the fitness will knock on and notch up and she can match her mental absorbsion, (sorry can`t spell) with her physical activity and balance the two.

it sounds like she is not having enough work. good luck anyway
 
You have completely described how my mare was when I got her and she was Welsh and chestnut to boot. I did weeks of loose work to voice train her in an indoor arena, then gradually started riding her, just in walk. I had to train her to stand by the gate in order to mount because as soon as I put my foot in the stirrup she would try to take off. Out hacking she was fine on tarmac but as soon as she even glimpsed grass she would start jogging and leaping. Even with full suede chaps I would come home with bruises down my legs from the stirrup leathers. There was a very large open area about half an hours ride away and I used to take her up there - as soon as we got to within the last 100 yards she would start anticipating some fun and the leaping would start as we approached each possible entrance point. I would ride her in circles in one specific area, just in walk. I gradually added trotting but if she misbehaved then it was back to walk again. As we started canter work I enlarged the circles until she was going more in straight lines but again, bad behaviour meant back to 15 m circles. All the time I was just using my voice. After several months I could allow her to let rip and know that I could pull up just by saying "and walk" a couple of times. Of course she would test the boundaries sometimes by cantering at walking speed! She was highly intelligent, always anticipating me and a total speed freak. She may have only been 15.1hh but I'm quite sure she could have shown a clean pair of heels to a racehorse, simply by she stubbornness - she would never tolerate anything at all in front of her. But once she had had a good blow out she would stroll home on the buckle of the reins. You always have to be alert and thinking ahead with horses like this and keep them thinking and listening to you. Loads of transitions and constant changes of direction. You also have to have the patience of Job, because they are insanely exasperating. As with the OP's horse, mine was a complete donkey on a leadrope, a 2 year old child would lead her about and she wouldn't put a foot wrong. She was gentle and kind, but get on board and she was transformed! She ran entirely on adrenaline and would never admit to being tired. I used to hack her to shows and it took us 30 minutes less than everyone else to get there. I would do 6 or 7 classes including WH and afterwards she would canter most of the way home. I did have a few doubts about what I'd bought for the first few months, but in the end I wouldn't have swapped her for the world, and anything else would have been boring!
 
caracarrie, great post just shows the patience, intelligence and time needed with horses, i know its only one example but shows there is a way through
 
tristar said:
caracarrie, great post just shows the patience, intelligence and time needed with horses, i know its only one example but shows there is a way through
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Thanks. To give you an idea what a loopy-fruit she was, in an equitation class with a judge who had seen her antics before, when it came to our individual display, the judge asked us to include some lengthening of the stride. I asked what stride she wanted lengthened and she said "since its you two, it will be gallop won't it? So I expect to see gallop, gallop, extended gallop and back to gallop again" Hmm, embarrassing. Another judge this time in a WH class which by a fluke we won, asked me if I ever hunted her. I replied that I wasn't that suicidal and anyway I'd go flying past the Master and get myself banned. She laughed and said " my dear, with that horse you'd be past the fox!" Oh dear!
 
I havent read all replies so sorry! But i have an andalusian croas thoroughbred and they are never calm! What has worked for my horse is; a lot of this rushing is actually because she is tired i have to give her a reasonably high powered feed and it actually makes her calmer, dont just drill them over the basics like you might do for others, give her hard work to focus all that energy! If she is jogging collect to a piaffe, do lots of spirals and lateral work. Canter to halt to rein back to walk to canter really helps for my horse!
 
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