Advice please - 4 year old being naughty!

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millij73

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Hi

I have had my 4 year old cob mare for a month now and she's lovely, good transitions, responsive and lovely paces. I keep her stabled overnight and outdoors for a few hours each day, I hack her out 3 or 4 times a week. She has a little Hi-Fi sugar free with balancer when exercised. I have started experiencing a few problems and really worried I am doing something wrong! (Her saddle is fitted, she is in a happy mouth bit with tongue roller).

Firstly, the biting (or trying to) she has taken to swinging round and trying to bite me when I put her saddle on her back (when I tie her up tighter she simply swings around constantly) and she has started trying to bit my left leg whilst out hacking! Never experienced that before! I've had so many different pieces of advice, my head is spinning!
Secondly, napping. She isn't too bad (yet!) but has recently taken to acting up a bit before going forward (she varies where and when this is). I hardly use it but she doesn't seem to like the crop at all and leaps in the air. Would schooling help? If so then what?

Please please help!!

Thanks
 
When was her saddle last fitted? She may need it checking again because they develop so much in terms of musculature and growth at that age.

If you're sure you're not doing anything differently with your left leg when hacking, and she doesn't do it in the school I would just block and ignore. Its a time of testing behaviour for a normal young horse, and sounds like she's no exception. :)
 
Echo what Naturally, above has said regarding saddle. At 4 years old and being ridden regularly, she could have changed shape and be experiencing some discomfort which she associates with being saddled.

Does she try to bite when being groomed or only when being saddled?

If she is being exercised, are you working her fairly hard for her fitness/muscle level - she may feel it a bit in her muscles, like we would after a hard workout or gym class.

Go over the saddle area with the flat of your hand, does she flinch, ears back at any particular spot.

Will give some thought to the napping - I wonder if this is associated with the biting thing? Does she back up when asked? If she does, sometimes a few steps of backing up, then asking her to go forward when she naps might help.

Always give some thought as to why a horse starts to 'play up' as very often, they are trying to say something. Of course, with a young horse, they can sometimes try us out, but meeting fire with fire seldom is the answer.
 
She is good when being groomed, she doesn't flinch when I touch any area. I have been placing the saddle cloth on her back for a few minutes first before the saddle and she even tries to bite me when I put the saddlecloth on her! Her back feels fine, I can see daylight through the length of the saddle .. I suspect she is just being a mare, but she will ultimately be my 12 year old's pony and I want to nip it in the bud! Thanks all
 
jennyf said:
Echo what Naturally, above has said regarding saddle. At 4 years old and being ridden regularly, she could have changed shape and be experiencing some discomfort which she associates with being saddled.

Does she try to bite when being groomed or only when being saddled?

If she is being exercised, are you working her fairly hard for her fitness/muscle level - she may feel it a bit in her muscles, like we would after a hard workout or gym class.

Go over the saddle area with the flat of your hand, does she flinch, ears back at any particular spot.

Will give some thought to the napping - I wonder if this is associated with the biting thing? Does she back up when asked? If she does, sometimes a few steps of backing up, then asking her to go forward when she naps might help.

Always give some thought as to why a horse starts to 'play up' as very often, they are trying to say something. Of course, with a young horse, they can sometimes try us out, but meeting fire with fire seldom is the answer.
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And no, I dont work her hard. An hours hack, bit of a canter etc
 
If you haven't recently (i.e. within last 6 months), have her teeth checked. I was appalled at the state of my four year old's mouth last month when the vet checked her. She had ulcers across the inside of her cheek and had two new Wolf teeth that needed extracting. A month on from rasping and removal, she's MUCH brighter, more willing and happier all round. Maybe worth having your mare's checked too?
 
I think she is probably trying to tell you she is uncomfortable somewhere, I would get a good physio or chiro to come and check her.
Just running your hand over her is unlikely to show any sore points unless it is really bad, the muscles are fairly firm in that area and sometimes will need a firm pressure,think of the weight they carry, to cause a reaction.
 
millij73 said:
I will do all of the above! Teeth check and saddle fitter. Would hate to think she's uncomfortable!

Thanks
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Good idea. Hope it helps and you get to the bottom of her problem :)

Also, just check around her girthing area. A youngster I had years ago started behaving like yours (he was 4, too) and when I checked I found a flat circular lump right underneath him, where the girth lay. It turned out to be a sarccoid (which I had removed) but equally, anything sore around that area (a cut or fly bite) might cause her to act up. Just another thought.
 
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I'd echo the advice for getting her back checked by a proper equine physio who will start at the head and finish at the tail , a proper head to toe if you like , she may have done something out in the field that you have no prior knowledge of , also when girthing up try to be as gentle as possible just going up a couple of holes each side at a time , i know this might seem time wasting but my old mare was really bad when i got her as she'd been girthed up by someone quite heavy handed and it had damaged her muscles in that region , they are very sensitive in this area , you could even massage the girth area before saddling just to warm her muscles up..
 
be positive said:
I think she is probably trying to tell you she is uncomfortable somewhere, I would get a good physio or chiro to come and check her.
Just running your hand over her is unlikely to show any sore points unless it is really bad, the muscles are fairly firm in that area and sometimes will need a firm pressure,think of the weight they carry, to cause a reaction.
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Have to disagree with that I'm afraid. It may take a bit of practice, but if a horse can twitch when a fly lands, then the slight pressure of a hand will show the same sort of reaction to any sore points. Have seen it demonstrated, and used it many times.
 
With horses that don't like the girth being done up it may not be the 'back' that is the sore area remember horses have muscles that lie under where the girth is that are involved in shoulder movement. If she's progressing with her schooling these muscles may be getting tight and sore. I'd agree with getting a fully qualifed physio out to see her if it cointinues. Hope you you get her sorted soon!
 
JennyF (sorry can't quote as on my phone) I'd disagree again - the cutaneous muscles in the skin that 'shiver' under flys are not the same muscles that are likely to be sore in a ridden horse, particularly if it is one of the deeper muscles that is the problem.
 
echo the others but do get teeth done first as sometimes they can put them selves out when the dentist does them, ie my horse always does something to his jaw and poll, even tho he is very good for the dentist.

I would also do some ground work with her while all this is going on so that you can work on her listening and respecting you ready for when you ride again. All new horses need this to establish leadership and manners
 
This may sound daft, but does she do it all the time or intermittently? The reason I ask is that I bought a mare who was a confirmed buckaroo, I was told she was just cold-backed, but after careful observation and noting the days when she humped her back, I worked out that it was only when she was in season and sore from that.

One vet visit and a marble later, she was fine for the whole summer.
Maybe just jot down when it happens and see if there is any pattern?
 
Gosh, lots of opinions - thankyou all!

In answer to one or two questions; she didn't try to bite me when I was placing her saddle at all in the first week or 2 we had her, it's only been the last couple of weeks that she's started doing it. I am very quiet and patient when putting the saddle on and the girth is left on loosely at first then tightened a bit more then once again once mounted. I honestly can't work out what I've done wrong!! I've never come accross it before.
 
millij73 said:
Gosh, lots of opinions - thankyou all!

In answer to one or two questions; she didn't try to bite me when I was placing her saddle at all in the first week or 2 we had her, it's only been the last couple of weeks that she's started doing it. I am very quiet and patient when putting the saddle on and the girth is left on loosely at first then tightened a bit more then once again once mounted. I honestly can't work out what I've done wrong!! I've never come accross it before.
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I am sure it is not something you have done wrong, she may just be getting more sensitive, if it is muscular or the saddle is a bit tight, you may be doing more than she was before, or less ,and that is contributing to her behaviour, has she changed routine or feed this can take a while to have an effect. Dont forget she is still a very young horse and finding her way in a new home.
Get the checks done and start again, with a fresh approach, once you know there is no physical problem, maybe get some lessons to help build your confidence.
 
Ditto the others, get her saddle checked.

My mare started showing signs of discomfort and I got her checked and it was the saddle. Like yours, she would turn and bite my foot (whilst I was on her) she also started putting her ears flat back when I done anything faster then a walk. I had the pysio out and she also checked my saddle and said it was a bad fit. I haven't rode in it since. I hacked her out bareback the other day and her ears were pricked and no bitting.

Your Horse is trying to tell you something!
 
That's great, thanks. It's not a lack of confidence on my part, I'm just really conscious that she's a youngster and it'd be so easy to ruin her. I've never owned anything younger than 10 previously!!

As she's so good in most other respects (although she's not keen on having her rug placed!) I suspect it is an uncomfy saddle
 
Inchy said:
JennyF (sorry can't quote as on my phone) I'd disagree again - the cutaneous muscles in the skin that 'shiver' under flys are not the same muscles that are likely to be sore in a ridden horse, particularly if it is one of the deeper muscles that is the problem.
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Will not argue the point, but as a TTEAM Practitioner, I know that many signs of soreness, stiffness can be pinpointed by hand or fingertip exploration - would hate to tell LTJ that she's been wrong for 30 years.
x
 
Is she in season? Lots of mares get a bit uncomfy and sore at this time, makes them cranky. Do get the checks done though, they are important whether you are having issues or not, especially with babies :)
 
Hi,

If its any help I have a 5yo german sports horse, who spent his days beginning to be backed as an angel- now not so much! he started biting, kicking, bucking, jumping 3foot fences at the top of the wings etc!!

All my tack etc was checked, he was having the physio every 6 weeks (after having a growth spurt from 15.2hh- 16.2hh in months!) but still nothing was working.

When he was relaxed and calm, he worked very well both with me on & in the stable. As a qualified equine sports massage therapist, i thought to myself why not give it a go on him! i found he had a sore bit on his poll that both the physio & vets had not picked up (hence the attitutude when his bridle was put on) and very tight muscles down the backs of his back legs- so turns out, he was kicking- he was actually trying to strecth them!

I'd suggest the same- if everything else is ok e.g. tack, teeth etc- get a ESMT as they help relax the horse, sort out any sore bits and make them more comfy! Depending on type of breed also, some horses wont physically stop growing til theyre 6ish anyway so with growing/ developing muscles etc theyre going to get a bit sore!
good luck :)
 
Youngsters can change shape quickly especially if in work. I would advise getting her teeth and saddle check as others have said and then having these checked every 6 months until she is at least 7 and slowing down her growing.

It could be that she is also experiencing growing pains, muscle aches or various other things, have you ruled out if she could be bored by riding the same routine each time? Try long lining and different routes to see if that interests her again.
 
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