Advice please - end of my tether :(

Ani

Ani

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I bought a horse last November, he was supposedly untouched (which has turned out untrue), when i got him he was scared of people, would bounce off the back wall if you walked past his stable. i have spent 8 months working with him. he came on quickly at first and i could long rein him in full tack and lean over him by December, but since then we have not got far at all. i have ridden him three times without a problem around the farm yard past tractors and cows, he is not spooky, but have not sat on him since May as i do not have anyone to be on the ground. He is getting more and more irratic, one day i can long rein him and lean over him, the next i can't even get the girth fastened. i have had vet, physio, back person, teeth checked, saddle checked and flocked, make sure i use a soft numnah, elastic girth and girth sleeve. last week he was absolutely fine to tack up in the stable, barn and school. i long reined him in the school and on the lanes. today i put his saddle on in the barn, he was a bit wary so i let him walk around before i tightened it a little (i am always really careful how and how much i tighten it) he was fine for a minute or so then just went balistic up and down the barn on the concrete bouncing off the metal doors at both ends bronking and running at me, he fell over twice.
Because he was so nervous of people i have used some of the intelligent horsmanship training along with my experience and common sence, we have gone through all the foundation exercises, which he is great with, he joins up well, i can walk him through corridors of flappy bags, touch him all over with my cane which has a carrier bag and lots of colured and textured ribbons. i can walk him over trapoulin and wood bridges and put tarpouling over his back, but the saddling up seems to be a real issue. i have tried the route of putting on an elastic surcingle and leaving it on, which again he is fine with. i have had an "expert" out and she said i am doing all the right things and he is supposed to be going away to finish being backed.
But I am now at the point where i don't know what to do, he will be an absolute star for three days then on the fourth he'll freak for no apparent reason, it's like he just totally looses control. if he was always bad i would know where i am but he is good one day and bad the next. i do know it is one step forward and two back but after eight months i'm getting nowhere and am wondering now whether there is any point in sending him away. i can't afford to have him away for six months at £200 a week and what if he is the same to be ridden, one day ok the next dangerous??? will i ever trust him?. i have tried so hard with this horse and spent a fortune trying to get him right. i could not sell him as that is just selling a problem on, he is 17.1hh so would be no good as a companian, he would be great or someone who just wanted to do ground training, but who wants that?? the only other option is have him put down, i have backed alot of horses in my time but never had one as irratic as this. Please advise me, he is breaking my heart.
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Oh hun. What happens when he's had his hissy fits? What action do you take, i.e. do you take the saddle off, or leave him to get over his hissing and then get on with what you wanted to do?

Do you have a dummy to put on the saddle?
 
I usually let him have his fit then he is fine and we go and long rein but today he just didn't calm down so i just put him in his stable with his saddle on for 45 minutes then removed it. I daren't leave him alone in the stable with his saddle on when he is in that kind of mood for fear he may try and jump out. i found after i had had him a month or so that he had stitches (still in) all along one arm pit, so he has obviously been trapped over somethin before!! though the breeder denies it. I really think someone has tried to back him in the past and made a mess of it..we have done all the dummy stuff and he was fine with it. he really is fine one day then scared stiff of everything you do the next. i have spent so much time with him gaining his trust but today he took it to another level.
 
He sounds exactly like my horse, who I had for a year before giving up and swopped him for my new horse last Monday.
Where did you boy come from?
Long story short, mine was supposedly untouched, he was terrified of people. We soon found out some one had done something nasty to him when they tried to ride him as he would absolutely freak. In the end I had a lad come and ride him for me, after getting everything checked. He wouldn't let anyone get on him but once you were on he was fine, a donkey in fact. But at the end he became dangerous, he would bolt, completely blind into the fence and I feared for my riders safety. My vet thought he had a tumor on his brain but with out spending thousands of pounds getting a scan we would never no so I cut my losses (which was a lot of money, time, energy etc).
Not what you want to hear I know. Hopefully you boy will come round.
 
Jiggy,

Sounds like to me you've done everything right, but sometimes you will find the odd horse like this. Yes, very rare, but it does indeed happen. There's been only 2 in my years of dealing with horses and both were found to have brain tumors. He's not consistent enough in the things he's doing for it simply to be a trust issue. I could see being wary still be not out and out full blown lunacy which running into things and falling down describes to me. Anyway, I'm not an expert so I shouldn't be opening my mouth at all.

I don't know what advice to offer you other than not to get hurt.

Terri
 
Really sorry to hear of this, sounds like a nightmare for you.
It sounds as if you have done everything right, i cannot think of anything else to suggest in honesty advice wise, sorry, but *massive hugs* to you
 
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I usually let him have his fit then he is fine and we go and long rein but today he just didn't calm down so i just put him in his stable with his saddle on for 45 minutes then removed it. I daren't leave him alone in the stable with his saddle on when he is in that kind of mood for fear he may try and jump out. i found after i had had him a month or so that he had stitches (still in) all along one arm pit, so he has obviously been trapped over somethin before!! though the breeder denies it. I really think someone has tried to back him in the past and made a mess of it..we have done all the dummy stuff and he was fine with it. he really is fine one day then scared stiff of everything you do the next. i have spent so much time with him gaining his trust but today he took it to another level.

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I know you've put so much time and effort in, but you're either going to have to do all the basics for a long time to come; or get help; or give up...

Have you tried a heat pad? Massage?
 
Jiggy firstly I am very very sorry. I have been in the same situation.....Had a horse that would be angelic for days, then out of nowhere would go totally batshit crazy on me.

I kept batting through until the day I was riding him and he reared spun and flat out bolted.....I had a horrible cold moment of realisation that I had not a snowballs chance in hell of bringing the situation back under control as he had totally lost not only any care for my safety but also for his own.

I bailed busted myself up but the most difficult thing was that I lost all confidence and it has been a long road back.

Horse had a history of this behaviour (I thought I was invincible and could sort him out) and I took the hard decision to PTS.....the autopsy showed he had a brain tumor.

My suggestion would be to find an experienced trainer talk to them in full about the problems you are having and see if they would be prepared to work with him for a couple of weeks see what they make of him and then listen to their advice.

Put your safety first so sorry you are having to go through this
 
Do you think it is still worth sending him away to finish being backed? he i due to go to an intelligent horsemanship yard in two weeks time, but i don't want to sent him away if it is going to be a waste of time or risk someone else getting injured.

No not tried heat pads but i do use massage before tacking up each time.
 
Giddy aunt hun, sounds like you do everything! Has one of IH people been out to assess him? I guess you have the problem that some days are good and some not so good...

Like Chavhorse, the only time I've come across such extremes of behaviour was with a horse that had a brain tumour
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What chance discussing the possibility with the vet?
 
Yes IH Recomended associate has been out, she said he is definately a horse with a history and a worrier and that i was doing all the right things.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Do you think it is still worth sending him away to finish being backed? he i due to go to an intelligent horsemanship yard in two weeks time, but i don't want to sent him away if it is going to be a waste of time or risk someone else getting injured.

No not tried heat pads but i do use massage before tacking up each time.

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It really depends on whether you think you will even if the IH Associate manages to sort him out ever be able to fully trust him and to be brutal if you can afford to invest 400 in a months training assessment and think it is worthwhile.

Why not have a full frank discusion with the IH Associate, keep a diary of his outbursts, what the situation was, what happened (it was only in retrospect that I thought back and realised just how often my horse had done this). Tell her of your concerns and ask her advice.

She as a professional should be honest and tell you if this is something she is prepared to take on she will also be used to dealing with many different horses with many different issues and will be able to judge his reactions against a scale of normality.

Also show the vets your diary and talk frankly to them.

It sounds like you are going above and beyond in thinking about making him as happy and relaxed as possible please do not beat yourself up.

I wish you the very best keep us updated and if you need any advice or support shout
 
I find it strange he has stiches (still in ) what did the owner say these were from? Is he fully recovered from whatever the injury is?

Edited to say: I didin't mean i find it strange, just that could this be something to do with it?
 
The stitches were still in but the wound totally healed, the skin had grown over some of the stitches, they had been there so long. yeh i looked in to whether he might have muscle damage or damaged ribs which haden't healed, my vet said all was fine. when i rang the breeder he said "Oh was that the one who had stitches?, we used to herd them from the barn to the field and he caught his leg on the gate latch" but in my experience you wouldn't get an 8" scar along the inside of the arm pit, right under the chest from brushing against the gate latch!!. Another wierd thing was when i first rang the breeder i spoke to the wife and in conversation she mentioned that the woman who bought my horse had called them also and insisted in speaking to her husband, who wasn't in at the time, but when i called back and spoke to the husband he said the horse had come to me straight from him and never been anywhere else and never been touched, he was very cagey, so someone was not telling the truth.
 
my mare was similar to this, very sweet but truely awful. i had her since yearing so knew her past. after 4 horrid years of bolting/rearing/bucking me,the IH person and vet decided she was to be retired. i was lucky (?) enough that she could stay with me as a companion. she does not enjoy being ridden. her only other option was PTS. her welfare is important to me so would not sell her on. i now have a new horse. not what you want to hear. sorry, know how you feel.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Do you think it is still worth sending him away to finish being backed? he i due to go to an intelligent horsemanship yard in two weeks time, but i don't want to sent him away if it is going to be a waste of time or risk someone else getting injured.

No not tried heat pads but i do use massage before tacking up each time.

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Is it always issues with the saddle/ girthing up when your horse freaks?

If so I would double check for ks and/ or scope for ulcers before going any further.

Hope you get it sorted.
 
At the risk of stating the obvious, he's dangerous and I'm betting (given his suspect beginnings and your sound and copybook approach to his issues) there's a serious underlying problem, causing this erratic and unpredictable behaviour.

I'm surprised you are only at the end of your tether! I'd be in therapy/under heavy sedation.

Has he tooth pain do you think? Ponydentist tells of a horse so tormented with tooth pain it was verging on maniac - so finding a fully and totally qualified EDT who is willing to search his mouth thoroughly for any source of provocation would be my first move. Getting his brain scanned would be the obvious next course of action, were it open, and failing any joy there a thorough body check for stuff like KS. If you think he wouldn't kill them, a behavioural expert might get to the bottom of it, having ruled out pain. Then I'd be all out of ideas and probably money too.


Apologies if that was too gloomy.
 
yes he's been checked for kissing spines, ulcers and tooth problems. i've spent all night thinking about it, going to talk to my vet today and see what he says, got to go to work now but can't think of anything but the horse. it's just [****] and i love him to bits.
 
Hi,

I would send him off for a couple of weeks to be sorted and looked at. Not with an IH person, but with a gutsy rider who will get on and do the job but not wind him up. Going down the IH road will cost you much more, and they will pussy foot round your horse and not give you real answers. Sorry to say this, but we had one out for my stallion (has issues) and they took one look at him and wouldn't even go in the box with him or handle him once we got him out, just told us to keep doing what we were doing. I can PM you the number of the chap I use who sorts out all my horrid ones to break in, he's very good and will give you answers and is based in Surrey.
 
Absolutely ditto this, if your in the west midlands area i know someone who is brilliant with this kind of horse he charges £90 a week, he helped me with a very tricky one like yours.

Pm me if you want no.
 
Thanks for all your advice and thoughts. unfortunately he has been away before to two different places which are both supposedly good, one couldn't get the saddle on and the other he was sent back after two weeks, they said he was unpredictible and the rider had broken her finger. so he has had two false starts.

When is it time to just say enough is enough? i have been sent home from work today cos i was so upset. i never get this upset over anything. i spoke to my vet this morning, he thinks there may be something wrong which even if we find out what it is we may never get over, he has already checked for ulcers,ks, nerve damage, muscle damage, general pain and lameness, bad teeth and so on.

I am just so worn out from doing everything i can. i have nothing left. i have backed horses before but never with this much trouble.
 
I think your horse needs to go to a man.

I have broken horses all my life, but there are some who do need someone pretty dominent and brave.
 
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