Advice please - horse napping

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Oriel

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My 8 year old Andalusian has started napping whilst out hacking. I have owned him since November last year and he has been fine going out hacking alone until recently.

He spins round and heads for home. He seems to position himself in such a way that its impossible for me to turn him - he jogs sideways, curved like a banana - he'll go up banks backwards and risks getting hurt. Recently I took a schooling whip out when we went for a ride to try to get him to go forward - he was ok to start with but then he played up for over an hour at a point about a mile from the yard. At that point I gave him a tap on the backside with the whip - he took off at a fast canter down the road (downhill :eek:). The situation was getting dangerous so I dumped the whip and eventually got him to go on - I figured that perhaps he was fazed by me holding a whip - I took him out the day after that and he was fine so I thought that was the end of it.

Not so.... Today I spent 2 1/2 hours just trying to get him away from the yard. He was spinning, rearing, and generally having a real tantrum. He literally tried to run back into his box more than once (with me onboard). I didn't get much more than a few hundred yards from the farm. I tried various routes off the farm, tried trotting him past the point of (hopefully) no return, got a friend to walk alongside, standing him still in the hope he would get bored and go forward. Nothing worked - in the end I had to admit defeat and took him in the school.

I'm now upset and exhausted. :(

Can anyone offer any advice please?
 
Are his teeth, back, saddle up to date?
If not get them looked out if the napping has just come on from nowhere.
If they are all ok get a good instructor to come out and help you :)
 
Oriel said:
My 8 year old Andalusian has started napping whilst out hacking. I have owned him since November last year and he has been fine going out hacking alone until recently.

He spins round and heads for home. He seems to position himself in such a way that its impossible for me to turn him - he jogs sideways, curved like a banana - he'll go up banks backwards and risks getting hurt. Recently I took a schooling whip out when we went for a ride to try to get him to go forward - he was ok to start with but then he played up for over an hour at a point about a mile from the yard. At that point I gave him a tap on the backside with the whip - he took off at a fast canter down the road (downhill :eek:). The situation was getting dangerous so I dumped the whip and eventually got him to go on - I figured that perhaps he was fazed by me holding a whip - I took him out the day after that and he was fine so I thought that was the end of it.

Not so.... Today I spent 2 1/2 hours just trying to get him away from the yard. He was spinning, rearing, and generally having a real tantrum. He literally tried to run back into his box more than once (with me onboard). I didn't get much more than a few hundred yards from the farm. I tried various routes off the farm, tried trotting him past the point of (hopefully) no return, got a friend to walk alongside, standing him still in the hope he would get bored and go forward. Nothing worked - in the end I had to admit defeat and took him in the school.

I'm now upset and exhausted. :(

Can anyone offer any advice please?
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From the way your describing it, it sounds very sudden, and other than neurological problems, there has to be SOMETHING that has triggered it.

Does anyone else have access to your horse? Does anyone else turnout/bring in? Or ride etc?

Something has either frightened him out there, something he won't forget without time and re-training his thoughts, OR he has a medical condition, whether it be his saddle not fitting correctly, back hurting etc etc.

Things don't just happen suddenly unless like I say something neurological.

Have you tried walking out in hand? does he still refuse?
 
Yes, his teeth were done just before I bought him and he had new tack then as well - saddle was professionally fitted. I haven't had anyone to look at his back so that may be something to consider. He doesn't appear to be in any discomfort though - he simply doesn't want to leave the yard. Its very frustrating as he was doing so well - he's relaxed and confident when we're out, he's not spooky or timid. Its very strange.
 
I agree with Damnation i would get everything checked out first..........my old horse all of a sudden started napping to the point we spent 3 hours in the pouring down rain in the middle of nowhere going nowhere because i refused to let him turn back........turns out his back was sore and even though once his back was fine again he didnt just go out happily it took a few attempts to convince him it didnt hurt anymore.....but we got there....i wouldn't attempt taking him out for a while and then the problem doesn't get worse and you are not putting yourself in any danger, just try to rule out potential reasons first.
 
Oriel said:
Yes, his teeth were done just before I bought him and he had new tack then as well - saddle was professionally fitted. I haven't had anyone to look at his back so that may be something to consider. He doesn't appear to be in any discomfort though - he simply doesn't want to leave the yard. Its very frustrating as he was doing so well - he's relaxed and confident when we're out, he's not spooky or timid. Its very strange.
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maybe he's just become stuck....have you tried hacking out with others is he ok then??
 
You have my sympathies,I have posted about napping horse on here many times and got some really good advice, if you do a search on the forum. I have to say that I have not been able to solve the problem though.

Ozzybuffy, my problem started after I had the horse over 6 months. It is lack of confidence with him but now is ingrained I think.

Anyway OP there is lots of advice on here and most people seem to have managed to solve their horses napping, so dont despair, I know it does make you want to tear your hair out.
 
Hi OzzyBuffy

- No, no-one else has access to my horse. I'm the only person who rides him and at the moment he is living out 24/7 so no-one else has any dealings with him. I can safely say that nothing has happened to scare him except perhaps puddles. They are the only thing I know for sure he has a real dislike of. He hasn't come across them much I guess (he was imported from Spain) that is the only thing that I can think of... It hasn't rained here for quite a while until recently and obviously there are puddles now where before it was dry - I would never force him to go through them though and allow him to look an sniff them whilst walking past - surely it couldn't be that? :confused:

Hi vroutledge - yes, I think I'll get someone in to look at his back - just in case.
 
I would have his back checked too...my horse couldn't be hacked out alone by his previous owners...turns out his back was sore.

Now he has a new saddle and the memory of pain has finally gone he will hack out fine.

Good luck:) keep us posted
 
My husband took Teyo out this evening - he began to nap as he had with me this morning but hubby's got stronger legs than me and after a bit of an argument about leaving the actual yard he went out for an hour or so - he was fine. I'll take my boy out tomorrow with hubby and his horse - I guess that if there's something physically wrong with him it would affect him whether hacking alone or in company. Or am I wrong?
 
It does sound as though he may be trying it on. Having said that though it is also possible with the rain and sun we have has the grass is pumping through and it is possible that he has put weight on and his saddle might not fit.

Worth getting back/ saddle checked just to rule that out.

I would definitely try hacking in company. Make sure you go out with a sensible person on a sensible horse. You haven't had him that long and it could be that he is lacking confidence in your partnership and is trying to take control. You definitely need to get to the bottom of this before it becomes a bad and difficult habit.
 
Hi, Just an update on my horse's napping.

As suggested by folk on the forum I've now had his teeth, back and saddle checked - all are fine.

I've taken him out with my husband and his horse - apart from a slight hesitation when he spun round just outside the yard he went well. I also took him out alone with my husband walking alongside - this wasn't as successful. As soon as we left the yard he spun round and headed the opposite way to where I wanted to go. My husband lead him for part of the way then I was able to get him going away from the farm. I didn't go far as I was short of time but I felt he would have continued on the hack if I'd wanted him to. So it would appear that the problem diminishes once he's on his way, the resistance is on the yard and very near to it.

I read in Michael Peace's book The 100% Horse a section about how to overcome napping. He mentions having the leg ready to bump the shoulder to get it round he also talks about separating the sides of the horse. Unfortunately I don't really understand what he means. Can anyone advise me on this?

I'd really appreciate any advice on how to proceed with my horse. I want to hack him out alone but don't want to try in case I have a repeat of the 2.5 hour stint the other week :(
 
I had the same problem with my boy just after I got him. He'd been out of work for about 2 years, so when we got him, we had him re-schooled, had a new saddle fitted (as hid old one wasn't fitted properly so he had bruising when we first got him!) had his teeth & back vetted while he was getting re-schooled, and the first few times I took him out, he was fine. but then once he'd worked out that a certain road took him home, he just wouldn't go the other route! So I started taking out a whip with me, just as a scare tactic rather than actually whipping him, as he just didn't like the noise, and that again worked for a few hacks but of then he started getting to the point he became dangerous- spinning in the middle of the road, nearly getting smacked by passing drivers (granted, they were going about 40mph past an obviously stressed horse-idiots!) and a few other things you've mentioned- backing up bankings etc

In the end, I got the lady who schooled him for me to pop over, and she took him out and used more forceful tactics. He wouldn't move=he got a smack. He bucked to try to get her off=he got an even bigger smack.

Worked a treat & i don't even need to use the whip as a threat anymore- he learnt his lesson!
 
If you get the vet out to check him also get the vet to check his eyes. The reason I say this is a horse a out yard started napping and he had lost the sight in one of his eyes, so was spinning round as he couldnt see and so didnt understand where he was going.
 
My horse was nappy when I first got her as I don't think she'd been ridden out alone before. She was fine hacking out with other horses but was very nappy when I was riding out alone - spinning and trotting back the way we had come. She was much better in hand than ridden so I took her out once in hand all the way, then the next time began in hand then got on her after half way (and I think she knew that at that point we were over half way through the hack so there was no point spinning and going backwards) and she was fine. The time after that I led her out in hand and got on her before half way and then after that managed to ride her out from the start and now she's absolutely fine. If you say your horse fine once she's got going could you try something similar?
 
my horse started doing this (again out of nowhere) a few month back, the advice i got was circle him tightly when you feel him about to do it, or if he does manage to turn and run kick him on(if safe to) so it is like your idea and he will soon get tired/bored, also if he gets back to the yard make him work when he gets there so he doesnt think going back to the yard will get him out of work
in the end just tapping my horse on the bum and really kicking him on worked with 1 rein shorted so i could tightly circle if i could, with someone on foot at first to help my confidence as it can unnerve you, and repeat repeat repeat. mine was just naughtiness as he was testing me out and now we are much better at hacking out alone. hope some of the ideas help.
 
I agree that all must be checked out but, it is also a fact that some horses will try things on and when they get away with the little things they progress to the major.

What I would do is when he spins is to haul on the rein against the side he spun to and make him go back against himself I would also carry my whip in the hand he spins to and hold it pointing forward so he can see it and if he did start to spin would flick hm on the nose with it.

When you did hit him and he cantered off - I would have kept him going as long as it was in the direction I wanted. Cantering down a hill will not harm him if it is an occasional thing.

If he reversed then I would keep him reversing but o a circle so he was reversing the way I wanted to go and back to the point where he first napped. Then I would sit him out, not for minutes but for hours if necessary.

It sounds as if this horse has the makings of you and to get him over it you have to believe you own the air that he breathes and firmly but fairly correct everything he does wrong. Learn to boss him on the ground and you will have little problems when you ride him.
 
Grab the rein close to his mouth, spin him back round, growl and squeeze him on. If he always naps to the one side, keep a crop on that shoulder and tap his leg to the beat of the walk/trot.

Are you relaxed or waiting for him to nap?
 
Thank you very much for the replies!

Foxhunter - When I smacked him and he cantered off it was in the opposite way to the way I wanted him to go - I did keep him going (brought him back to trot) and after a detour recommenced our hack - so I felt I'd got the best outcome I could in that situation.

I'm not sure what you mean in your last paragraph about him having the makings of me - do you mean that he sees me as weak? I will certainly start correcting him whenever he goes wrong.

LaurenM - I'm a fairly relaxed rider. I do keep as calm and patient as possible - though its not easy!

I took him out again yesterday evening with my husband on his horse. As soon as I got on he trotted off and I was unable to stop him. Eventually I got him round (but not before he'd taken me out to the fields). My husband and I set off on our hack and got 1/4 of a mile away when he suddenly spun round and headed for home. He seems to know how to position himself so that things get dangerous. He reversed up steep banks towards barbed wire fences whilst trotting sideways all the way. We almost ended up back at the yard when suddenly he complied with my efforts to turn him round and he then went the way I wanted him to. After that we went off for a 2 hour hack and he was great all the way round... So confusing! :(

Someone on the yard suggested that he may be exhibiting riggy behaviour - not wanting to leave the mares. Just in case, I had the vet in this morning to take blood to test his hormone levels.
 
I imagine what Foxhunter meant was that he has worked out that he is stronger than you and that he can scare you. It's hard and can be frightening to correct a horse which makes this connection. Your husband is presumably stronger and 'tougher' than you so he has more control.

Really I think you have to stop him running off with you. I suggest you get someone on the ground to help you. I would work on your issue at the mounting block (on the ground) and then in the school to get control without having to bit up and escalate things.

If you can get more control then there are ways you can prevent the napping, but if he is able to just run off when he choses then I think you are putting yourself at risk tbh.
 
Hi, it does sound to me like he's taking the p***! I have had alot of horses sent to me for sorting out napping (I always advise to have the vet check before they come to ensure there's nothing underlying). He needs a very firm rider and if you can feel when he's going to 'start' you need to spin him (usually the way he would normally turn, they do tend to favour one side), when I say spin him, I mean round and round many times then once you feel ready, seamlessly face him the way you want to go and ride on, at a trot is preferable. Be prepared to do this many times (although I usually find with 4-5 sessions we're sorted). Sticks and spurs and growling can often exacerbate the situation so I'd avoid. This will work as long as you are confident and of course have a good seat ;)
Good luck. A x
 
Yes, I know I've got to stop him running off whenever he feels like it. I wonder if I should change his bit?

At the moment he's in a full cheek snaffle bit with copper peanut

Can anyone suggest a bit which would give me a bit more control when he trots off?
 
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4 ring gag. I stand by what I said previously though, if u can grab the rein close to his mouth and spin him back that way it should work.
 
And keep spinning!!!! Honestly I'm queen of the napping horses ;) Gag is as good as any strong bit. Are you a confident rider, if not get someone else to do it for you. Where are you based?
 
Oriel said:
Yes, I know I've got to stop him running off whenever he feels like it. I wonder if I should change his bit?

At the moment he's in a full cheek snaffle bit with copper peanut

Can anyone suggest a bit which would give me a bit more control when he trots off?
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I think you should be cautious of over bitting him, if the problem is that he is being unruly. I agree you need more control, you shoudl try and get that with more schooling. It may be that you just need a different noseband and a hanging cheek or different mouthpiece, like a waterford.

I only say this because if you are a nervous rider and hanging on a bit, and he is jibbing and backing up then a stronger bit can be an invitation to rear, which you really want to avoid. Get a good instructor to give you an assessment. (you may not be any of these and may not need a good instructor, in which case do ignore me)
 
Are you a confident rider, if not get someone else to do it for you. Where are you based?
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I would say I'm fairly confident - up to a point... I had a horse rear vertically and take me over with him just over six years ago. I fractured my wrist and my leg was hurt where he fell on me - I do have a fear of this happening again. Teyo hasn't frightened me with his antics (so far!)- I feel more disappointed and I suppose confused as to why he should be doing it after having owned and ridden him since last November. I'm based in Washington, West Sussex.

I used to have regular lessons in the school but have realised that what I really enjoy is hacking out. I'm 56 years old and don't have any desire to compete, jump or anything like that. So I made the decision this year to just ride out and I don't go in the school at all. We started hacking out 3-4 times a week on our own and at the weekends with my husband and his horse. Do you think a horse that is only ever ridden out on hacks needs to be schooled as well? I do work on things while we're out such as leg yielding and getting him to stand at road junctions, etc.
 
Horses can be just hacked as all mine have just been hacked out . What I would say is that I find that it takes me about 2 years from getting a new horse to really get it to be a really laid back relaxed hack. The secret is to hack them out each day (do not be tempted to give them a day off) and keep their weight down. It is suprising how much extra energy horses have just from grass let alone additional feed so watch the grass any any addititional feed.
 
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