Advice please - is this a sarcoid?

[Horsey Hunting]

Hi everyone
I went to see a horse to buy yesterday, she’s a bit of a project but is a nice little mare.
Only concern is she has this lump on the outside of her flank. It’s quite small about the size of a 5p at the most. Owner did mention it when I rang, and said they use turmeric or garlic on it in the summer to stop flies getting at it as when they do it gets bigger! They’ve never had a vet look at it. The skin is black (she’s a black horse) and it feels pretty smooth to touch (and a bit floaty) rather than stiff.
I’ve done some reading and guessing it could be a nodular sarcoid. But i’d really appreciate some thoughts and advice from you all.
I’ve attached some pictures.
Depending on what you say, I was thinking I could get a vet to go and look at it and advise (though appreciate it might need a biopsy). Rather than pay for an expensive vetting at this stage.
I guess I should also expect a price discount if I do buy her.
Or maybe I should just walk away and keep looking......
Thanks for your help
Diane

 

[meleeka]

Yes it looks like one to me. Be aware they can multiply easily so although you might have found one, there could be more. I think getting a vet to look would be very useful. The value of the horse would obviously be a lot lower if the vet confirms what it is.

 

[ihatework]

My money would be on a sarcoid.
You wouldn’t biopsy, you would either treat it or leave it, depending on if it’s causing a problem/your personal preference.

Whether you buy is completely up to you and how much you like the horse despite the sarcoid. I’ve had and/or known a number of horses over the years with sarcoids and it’s very rare they are problematic, but when they are it can get nasty and expensive.

In unproven horses it does impact their value. Once they are proven good horses then less so.

Last one I purchased came with 2 sarcoids, I got £1500 off his asking price. Lamb banded one and just left the other.

 

[milliepops]

What IHW says.
One of mine has something that looks very similar, hers appeared spontaneously and is actually under the saddle area but never caused a problem so vet and I agreed to just leave it. In about 10 years it hasn't changed. I'm not suggesting this will be the same but not all of these things are nasty and need treating especially if it's in an area where it isn't going to rub on things.
I would expect the price to reflect the unknown aspect though, and of course you might prefer not to take the risk full stop.

 

[irishdraft]

Yes I would say that is a sarcoid as it's nodular you could possibly band it but it could come back . If you leave it alone it may not be a problem but if you were planning on bringing g the horse on to sell you may have a problem or not realise the price you wanted

 

[ycbm]

It's an unusual place for a sarcoid, the flank. It could be a lump of some other kind or a keloid scar. It's certainly a risk and I'd want a vet opinion before paying full price.

.

 

[Horsey Hunting]

Thanks everyone, I really appreciate your advice and feedback.
The owner has now offered to have a vet come and look at it. So I’ve said if that confirms it isn’t a sarcoid I could still be interested. I’d need to see the vet report though. I’ve suggested that she probably needs to know either way anyway as a sarcoid will definitely put some buyers off and will affect her value.
Diane x

 

[Marigold4]

I walked away from buying a nice horse that had a tiny sarcoid under her belly, found at the vetting. I thought long and hard about it and did a ton of research. In the end, it was the possible link to the bovine papilloma virus that persuaded me not to buy. I asked my very experienced and senior vet whether it could be spread by flies and his view was that it mostly likely could be spread by flies into open wounds. I have other horses so didn't want to risk it. This link has not yet been proved, I think, and others may disagree but this was my vet's view.

 

[ycbm]

I think the bovine papilloma link was accepted a while ago now M. Interestingly it's also being found in foot canker and the only horse I've ever had with canker was riddled with sarcoids. I've got another with multiple sarcoid removal scars now, but no sign of canker thankfully.

.

 

[ycbm]

Thanks everyone, I really appreciate your advice and feedback.
The owner has now offered to have a vet come and look at it. So I’ve said if that confirms it isn’t a sarcoid I could still be interested. I’d need to see the vet report though. I’ve suggested that she probably needs to know either way anyway as a sarcoid will definitely put some buyers off and will affect her value.
Diane x

If you like the horse it's a very low risk if it has only one, where it is.

.

 

[Marigold4]

It might only have one now, but that is no guarantee that itbwon't multiple in the future though. I thought about asking for £1500 off the price forbthe horse I was interested in, which would have been enough to treat 3 serious ones on the body but ones on the eye can cost a thousand?? and sarcoids would be an exclusion on the insurance now it's been noted. And sarcoids are distressing to deal with, for both owner and horse. Liverpool cream, though effective, is terribly painful, as I understand it. But buying horses is a risky business and most of the time, you have to compromise on something to get a horse that you like and that fits the budget.

 

[ycbm]

One at the age of a fully mature horse is very low risk. The immune system should be on top of it by then. You have as much chance of a horse with none popping one out (in a worse place) some time after you get it home. They are often triggered by stress. The insurance is definitely an issue, though.

Lasering, acyclovir, fluorouracil-5 and Newmarket bloodroot are being used by vets who who are concerned about Liverpool cream hurting too much.

If it worries you, don't buy it, you will never stop worrying about it in future.

I'm hoping your vet tells you it's a scar, or finds another lot and makes things obvious.

Check yourself, also for any perfect circular shadows of different colour in the hair, especially across the chest and inside the hind legs. These are occult sarcoids which have only affected the hair pigment, but can change into full sarcoids any time the horse gets stressed.

I'm a bit of a sarcoid geek, as you can tell!



.

 

[Horsey Hunting]

Thanks, I really appreciate all the advice and tips.

She’s 7 years old. I think the fact the owners have said it gets quite a bit bigger if the flies get to it in the summer, means I’m always going to worry about it. Even if she does just have this one and I can use rugs / sprays etc. It just feels like it’ll be a constant concern. Plus the insurance issue and risk of exclusion for all skin conditions, which would be awful.

Ycbm - thanks also for the tip about occult sarcoids I’ll definitely look out for that in future.

Will be interesting to see what their vet says, I do wonder if they might find some more as I didn’t check her overly thoroughly, have learned that for next time too.

 

[Marigold4]

Sounds like a good decision. Horse's owners are to be commended though for being honest about it and it behaves. My friend bought a youngster in winter with what the vet said (on vetting) was an old scar from a bite from another horse on its neck. Turns out it wasn't! It was a sarcoid and it bled and oozed all summer attracting flies. Horse sadly died in a field accident so we don't know what would have happened in the long term.

 

[Green Bean]

I had a very similar looking lump on my mare, on her face, just below the eye. She went to have it lasered off, but they determined that it was a 'fungal granuloma' not a sarcoid. Apparently this can only be categorically determined during surgery, so the first assumption is always that it is a sarcoid. As to buying the horse, I think that depends if you think you will keep it for life or sell on at some point. Potential buyers will have the same concerns as you.

 

[Inda]

My filly’s malignant melanoma looked that. We were expecting a sarcoid result.