Advice please, losing confidence fast!

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dulargy10

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Hi everyone,

I lost my eventer last year who I absolutely adored, had him for nearly 7 years and we knew each other inside out. He was an ISH. I recently bought another horse (after a couple of nasty falls trying new horses, both falls happened with bolting horses) and my new horse is a 16.3hh, 10 yrs old KWPN gelding. He has done mainly SJ and I bought him from a reputable dealers yard.

I am having trouble with him in that he has run off with me a few times, sometimes in the middle of a flatwork lesson, other times after trot poles - on all occasions we have been at least 20 minutes into riding. I am lucky that I have people to help me but a few have told me that he probably needs more work due to his type. I have had his tack checked, physio and dentist so know he is physically fine. The dentist did find a broken wolf tooth so it was removed recently so at the moment he is only being lunged in case his mouth is sore from the extraction although the yard manager felt he looked fine being lunged and the bucking and tanking off when asked to canter was just down to exuberance.

My main issue is that I ride him every other day, he is not off my leg at all so by the time I have ridden him for 30 minutes, I am knackered! I appreciate all horses are different but I have never had a warmblood before and wondered if anyone had any advice in terms of do they tend to need worked every day? I have been told by the yard staff that he is also quite babyish in his behaviour, for example he is terrified of cows which has now put me off hacking him as I cannot really avoid cows!

Day by day, my confidence is getting worse to the point I am dreading sitting on him in fear that he may at any time take off with me as there has never been an obvious reason as to why he has done it before. Also, having seen him buck on the lunge when asked to canter I am even more worried that he might do this when I am on him although I guess that is maybe just being silly? I am so reluctant to admit defeat but I am worried I have taken on a horse that needs a different type of rider, i.e someone who will work him hard every day and if so, that is just not me. I am keen to go eventing with him, hacking, dressage and general RC activities which I told the dealer at the time and he assured me you could leave him for weeks and not need to lunge him but as I say, other people have told me differently. I do feel more reassured if I lunge him first as I know it will take any edge off him but it just seems strange that when I do sit on him (even if I haven't lunged him) that he is so lazy so I am finding it hard to believe that his running off with me is down to freshness?

I ride him in a happy mouth revolver snaffle. He is fed happy hoof and baileys lo cal balancer plus ad lib hay.

If anyone has any advice it would be much appreciated! As I say, I do not want to give up on him but I don't know how much longer my nerves will hold out!

cheers

Katie
 
Lunge it til it's tired then get on... do this for a couple of weeks so that it doesn't tank off with you... If it does, get off and lunge it some more... It's probably getting the idea if it runs off it's getting out of work. Hopefully it will learn that if it tanks off it has to work even harder.

BTW my hossey bucks like a bronch on the lunge and has only done the very odd one with me (usually when I've walloped him on the bum).

BnBx
 
You mention that two other horses have tanked off with you when you were trying them, and now your new horse is doing the same thing? Bit of a common thread there? It's not normal for horses to suddenly decide to bolt, so perhaps you are the proud owner of an "electric bottom", which your last horse was polite enough to ignore. Your new one will have to get used to you too, just give him some time to "learn" you and your different-from-what-he's-used-too aids (this might be why he can't "hear" your legs either).
 
Cortez said:
You mention that two other horses have tanked off with you when you were trying them, and now your new horse is doing the same thing? Bit of a common thread there? It's not normal for horses to suddenly decide to bolt, so perhaps you are the proud owner of an "electric bottom", which your last horse was polite enough to ignore. Your new one will have to get used to you too, just give him some time to "learn" you and your different-from-what-he's-used-too aids (this might be why he can't "hear" your legs either).
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I have to say this is what immediately occurred to me too! In almost 40 years riding a huge number of horses, I have never been bolted with (should touch wood now!).

I think you need to look to yourself for a possible cause. Are you holding too tight. Are you very tense through your body? Do you have a bad back or anything that might make you less comfortable for a horse to carry? Are you over or under horsed? You'd be surprised how many tiny women like big powerful horses and then wonder why they can't get them working through! Similarly, there are a huge number of people who are far too heavy for their horses and it doesn't seem to occur to them. Not saying any of this applies to you though, just saying what immediately came to mind on reading this thread. What is he like when others ride him?
 
Starting with a new horse can be tough especially after so long with one good one.
There are several issues here 1] try to form your own opinion of him, girls on the yard are often thoughtless and dont mean any harm but saying he is terrified of cows etc is going to destroy your trust before you have a chance.

2]Try to work him off your leg,he must go when told,use spurs or a schooling whip to back up your aids and do transitions, constantly reminding him to respond.Vary the work so he does not switch off,use poles,anywhere,not always in a line,on a circle is good.

3]If you lunge him make sure he is really working,if he has a buck let him then bring him back to trot and repeat canter transition,do this until he is obedient.

4]If yard staff are exercising him make sure they ride/lunge him as you do so he does not get away with bad manners.

5]The dealer you bought him from may have been able to leave him and have no problems but they are professionals so are used to riding fresh or tricky horses,you are not.

I would get someone you trust to ride him out in company,see what he is like with cows and generally the sights around your area.

The main thing is to enjoy your horse give it a bit more time and if things dont get better you are not the first person to decide to sell and try again.
 
I think that after the horses bolted with you that you are tensing up and he is reacting to that.
Now be honest...
You say he is lazy and behind your leg but are you stopping him from moving forwards because you are afraid he will run off? When he does start to ping off your leg are you subconsciously stopping him?
I think you should find an instructor you like and have lessons to help you bond with your new horse, if you are already having lessons it doesn't sound as though they are working so find someone else.

Also just because a horse feels lazy doesn't mean it's not fresh inside... Mine can be a bit like that, butter wouldn't melt but I know him better than that ;).
Don't worry by him bucking on the lunge, most horses do that but wouldn't dream of doing it with a rider.

If you want to ride him just every other day that's fine but for now I'd lunge him for a good 20-30 mins before you get on so he is slightly tired. Then when you are on him he's got to respect you and move off your leg and you have to let him move (hence getting the lessons!) do another half hour of good work with you on board. He's a big horse in his prime and he can cope with a decent hours work.

Also make sure he's getting lots of turnout, hay and don't give him any heating feed.

I think you just need to get used to him, also he is big and he probably has a big stride so it may feel as though he's about to run off when really he is just starting to move?!

Forget about the hacking untill you are comfortable in the school. When you do hack him take him out after a lunge or a schooling session so he's tired, go with company and go for a short ride. You can build up over time, bite sized chunks :).

If you are worried about the cow issue why don't you ask if you can turn him out with some for a few weeks, that will cure him :).
 
Thanks for all your replies! I don't think it is my riding only because I have ridden lots of horses throughout my life and this has never happened before. I have also been told I am a very quiet rider with a good position and quiet hands so hopefully this isn't the cause? The 2 horses I came off, one spooked when I took off my jacket and bolted off up the school, and the other reared when I got on and promptly ran off. I do take those comments on board though and there is no doubt that I am getting more tense on him due to what has been happening? I haven't really seen anyone else ride him however have asked my yard manager to sit on him for me to see what she thinks so I am hoping this will help me too.

I think he potentially is too big for me, I am 5'5 and 9 and half stone but weirdly together we do look alright together, my last horse was 16.1 so a big difference but I do feel okay with his size so not intimidated by it as he is such a sweetheart to handle in all other ways?

thanks again

Katie
 
I thought I would say, I sympathise with you .but I also had a very sharp, spooky, although a lazy attitude, Dutch gelding, I have had him for 8 years.. still ride him, hes 16 now, but he has never really changed in character. I think sometimes, a horse is what it is, and sometimes you wont change him, but if you like him, you may have to perservere with him, as he will improve.. Good Luck
 
hi, just saw the thread about turning him out with cows - he is turned out daily and is next to cows and has apparently been brought in a couple of times because he was so terrified they thought he might jump the fence so not sure if him seeing them all the time is sorting that :)
 
I sympathise too - I got my first warmblood last year and OMG was it a different experience! The two of us wound each other up for a few months with me worrying myself silly until I found my current trainer who basically just said to me "are you going to ride it or sell it, because you're perfectly capable of riding it". IMO they need you to be right there giving them an instruction, you don't need to be tough or agressive, just "there" - almost before they check to see if you are.

If you can stop worrying and believe in yourself you'll get there, if you don't feel you can do it on your own then don't worry - plenty of us on here have been there! Just post again asking for recommendations for people to work with near you.


Good luck :)
 
Suziq77 said:
I sympathise too - I got my first warmblood last year and OMG was it a different experience! The two of us wound each other up for a few months with me worrying myself silly until I found my current trainer who basically just said to me "are you going to ride it or sell it, because you're perfectly capable of riding it". IMO they need you to be right there giving them an instruction, you don't need to be tough or agressive, just "there" - almost before they check to see if you are.

If you can stop worrying and believe in yourself you'll get there, if you don't feel you can do it on your own then don't worry - plenty of us on here have been there! Just post again asking for recommendations for people to work with near you.


Good luck :)
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Fabulous advice - my boy Kal is like this - he does need to know you're there all the time telling him what to do and keeping his very active brain busy . . . and he and I used to wind each other up something chronic. I'm not sure what happened exactly, but something did eventually just click and now he and I are much more in synch and chilled together. It may have been when he was on four weeks' box rest - gave us both time to get our heads together, plus I grazed him in hand pretty much every day which gave us invaluable bonding time.

On the bucking in canter, could it be that he's just finding it difficult rather than naughtiness? Kal was so unbalanced that he pretty much always bucked going into canter (just a little one) on the left rein - doesn't do it at all now. Also, Kal can act like an absolute idiot on the lunge - bucking, plunging, rearing, cow kicking - but behaves quite differently under saddle.

Take heart - you'll get there. You and your lovely boy are still getting to know each other. Try and take your cues from him rather than other well-meaning but essentially unhelpful people on the yard. By all means see your YO ride him. Don't hack until you're more confident in the school. Walk him out in hand (in a bridle if that makes you feel better) to build his confidence.

Take care.

P
 
Tamba said:
I thought I would say, I sympathise with you .but I also had a very sharp, spooky, although a lazy attitude, Dutch gelding, I have had him for 8 years.. still ride him, hes 16 now, but he has never really changed in character. I think sometimes, a horse is what it is, and sometimes you wont change him, but if you like him, you may have to perservere with him, as he will improve.. Good Luck
Click to expand...

I forgot to add.. it is worth sticking with, as they are actually really loving affectionate, needy horses, who bond really well, didnt put me off, as I just bought another, this time a German, but very similar character to the Dutch..(Also think they can teach you alot.. esp, improve your riding and stickability !!!!!!!!!!
 
I agree with the above in regards to winding each other up. my wb can be a pain :p

is there a horse you can hack with that isn't scared of cows?
mine used to be terrified but now he just looks at them warily and edges past them as fast as possible :p
good luck :D
 
you are not alone in having problems with a new horse, i nearly sold my warmblood cross because i felt i couldnt cope with her, but i persevered as i had become very fond of her and got my confidence back, it just needed positive riding and thinking and i was fine. she is still the same spooky nutcase but i can now deal with it so dont give up... just a thought, what bit did the dealer have him in, he just maybe reacting to bit contact that he finds uncomfortable rather than being naughty when he runs off..lots of luck with him:D:D
 
firewell said:
I think that after the horses bolted with you that you are tensing up and he is reacting to that.
Now be honest...
You say he is lazy and behind your leg but are you stopping him from moving forwards because you are afraid he will run off? When he does start to ping off your leg are you subconsciously stopping him?
I think you should find an instructor you like and have lessons to help you bond with your new horse, if you are already having lessons it doesn't sound as though they are working so find someone else.

Also just because a horse feels lazy doesn't mean it's not fresh inside... Mine can be a bit like that, butter wouldn't melt but I know him better than that ;).
Don't worry by him bucking on the lunge, most horses do that but wouldn't dream of doing it with a rider.

If you want to ride him just every other day that's fine but for now I'd lunge him for a good 20-30 mins before you get on so he is slightly tired. Then when you are on him he's got to respect you and move off your leg and you have to let him move (hence getting the lessons!) do another half hour of good work with you on board. He's a big horse in his prime and he can cope with a decent hours work.

Also make sure he's getting lots of turnout, hay and don't give him any heating feed.

I think you just need to get used to him, also he is big and he probably has a big stride so it may feel as though he's about to run off when really he is just starting to move?!

Forget about the hacking untill you are comfortable in the school. When you do hack him take him out after a lunge or a schooling session so he's tired, go with company and go for a short ride. You can build up over time, bite sized chunks :).

If you are worried about the cow issue why don't you ask if you can turn him out with some for a few weeks, that will cure him :).
Click to expand...

thanks for your comments, when he runs off, he is doing a fast out of control canter so definitely not a case of me not used to his stride. I probably am more cautious than I used to be so am perhaps holding him back but I promise, when I say lazy, he is very lazy - he doesn't 'ping' off my leg at all - wish he did :)..I normally have to back my aid up with my stick and even then he doesn't always give any reaction and I have tried putting both reins in one hand to see if that helps but he definitely doesn't give me any sort of big reaction when I ask him to go off my leg which is why I am finding it so difficult. I am deliberately trying not to use my leg all the time so I will ask for an upwards transition and if I don't get it first time, I ask again and if still no response I use my stick but to be honest, he never gives me a massive reaction so not sure what else to do? Am reluctant to use spurs as would prefer to try and teach him to go off my leg naturally but maybe worth considering. As I say, I think because of what has been happening my nerves have gone so hopefully if I can see someone else ride him and continue with the lunging, it will help. really appreciate your reply! thanks again
 
its' not fun having a horse frighten you - I know, I've been there, but you say you are working him for 30 mins every other day. What is he doing for the rest of that time? Is he out at grass? You also say you want to event/do riding club stuff. Well certainly for that he will need to be fit, and the amount of riding you are doing is IMO not enough to get him fit.
If you are nervous of a horse, and he senses it, you can build up a vicious circle very quickly, and it sounds like you are already losing confidence in each other. If he were mine I would not worry about schooling for a few weeks but concentrate on making his life interesting with long hacks (away from cows!) preferably with someone. Is this possible? A bit of fun with a companion might sweeten him up and get him going forward more.
 
vickyb said:
its' not fun having a horse frighten you - I know, I've been there, but you say you are working him for 30 mins every other day. What is he doing for the rest of that time? Is he out at grass? You also say you want to event/do riding club stuff. Well certainly for that he will need to be fit, and the amount of riding you are doing is IMO not enough to get him fit.
If you are nervous of a horse, and he senses it, you can build up a vicious circle very quickly, and it sounds like you are already losing confidence in each other. If he were mine I would not worry about schooling for a few weeks but concentrate on making his life interesting with long hacks (away from cows!) preferably with someone. Is this possible? A bit of fun with a companion might sweeten him up and get him going forward more.
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Hi. He is now being lunged or ridden every day, I plan to do eventing /RC stuff but not at the moment as appreciate I would need to get him fitter for that. He is turned out every day so the days he was not ridden, he would be in the field although when he is ridden, he has had turn out also. I have hacked him with other horses and we went past cows and he went into canter but I could bring him back pretty quickly, my nerves have come from girls on the yard telling me they had to bring him in when he heard them mooing, I am now worried if one moos, I may not be able to control him :) (my mind is playing havoc with me at the mo!)...you are all so right though - think I need to give it more time, he seems a genuine type and maybe seeing someone else ride him will make me see he is not going to do anything bad to me. I will continue with my lessons on him and try and be more positive! thanks again
 
Suziq77 said:
I sympathise too - I got my first warmblood last year and OMG was it a different experience! The two of us wound each other up for a few months with me worrying myself silly until I found my current trainer who basically just said to me "are you going to ride it or sell it, because you're perfectly capable of riding it". IMO they need you to be right there giving them an instruction, you don't need to be tough or agressive, just "there" - almost before they check to see if you are.

If you can stop worrying and believe in yourself you'll get there, if you don't feel you can do it on your own then don't worry - plenty of us on here have been there! Just post again asking for recommendations for people to work with near you.


Good luck :)
Click to expand...


Thanks so much for your reply. I am pleased to say that things are much better and I have not had the bolting problem since his tooth was taken out so I am pretty sure this is what the problem was. I am beginning to build my confidence with him again and I am sure we will get there! x
 
dulargy10 said:
Hi everyone,

I lost my eventer last year who I absolutely adored, had him for nearly 7 years and we knew each other inside out. He was an ISH. I recently bought another horse (after a couple of nasty falls trying new horses, both falls happened with bolting horses) and my new horse is a 16.3hh, 10 yrs old KWPN gelding. He has done mainly SJ and I bought him from a reputable dealers yard.

I am having trouble with him in that he has run off with me a few times, sometimes in the middle of a flatwork lesson, other times after trot poles - on all occasions we have been at least 20 minutes into riding. I am lucky that I have people to help me but a few have told me that he probably needs more work due to his type. I have had his tack checked, physio and dentist so know he is physically fine. The dentist did find a broken wolf tooth so it was removed recently so at the moment he is only being lunged in case his mouth is sore from the extraction although the yard manager felt he looked fine being lunged and the bucking and tanking off when asked to canter was just down to exuberance.

My main issue is that I ride him every other day, he is not off my leg at all so by the time I have ridden him for 30 minutes, I am knackered! I appreciate all horses are different but I have never had a warmblood before and wondered if anyone had any advice in terms of do they tend to need worked every day? I have been told by the yard staff that he is also quite babyish in his behaviour, for example he is terrified of cows which has now put me off hacking him as I cannot really avoid cows!

Day by day, my confidence is getting worse to the point I am dreading sitting on him in fear that he may at any time take off with me as there has never been an obvious reason as to why he has done it before. Also, having seen him buck on the lunge when asked to canter I am even more worried that he might do this when I am on him although I guess that is maybe just being silly? I am so reluctant to admit defeat but I am worried I have taken on a horse that needs a different type of rider, i.e someone who will work him hard every day and if so, that is just not me. I am keen to go eventing with him, hacking, dressage and general RC activities which I told the dealer at the time and he assured me you could leave him for weeks and not need to lunge him but as I say, other people have told me differently. I do feel more reassured if I lunge him first as I know it will take any edge off him but it just seems strange that when I do sit on him (even if I haven't lunged him) that he is so lazy so I am finding it hard to believe that his running off with me is down to freshness?

I ride him in a happy mouth revolver snaffle. He is fed happy hoof and baileys lo cal balancer plus ad lib hay.

If anyone has any advice it would be much appreciated! As I say, I do not want to give up on him but I don't know how much longer my nerves will hold out!

cheers

Katie
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I am not an eventer, but my sister is, so I can only speak from what she does! She is up to level4 PC, so all jumps are about 3ft3/6 with a walk/trot/canter dressage test. Her horse is exercised every day, without fail, apart from on its designated day off. Having just come from a yard where we sold horses for eventing and SJ, all of who were warmbloods, again they were exercised every day. If we left one for a few days, we would give it a lunge for at least 20 minutes, take it for a blast round the field, and then begin schooling. Basically, first things first I think for his type and the work you want to do he needs more exercise, both for fitness and his energy levels!

I would agree with what a few other people have said though, if you are tensing up, telling him to go forward but also holding him back, it may just be that the buck is a case of saying "if you cant make your mind up then get off!". In terms of bolting, do you carry on schooling after he has bolted? If you get off, he will learn that a bolt = end of work! I have read a few people on here with horses who bolt have an instructor ride their horses so that if it bolts, the instructor encourages it to keep going and takes control, i.e. when the horse begins to pull up make it keep galloping. They should learn pretty soon it is not worth it!

However, to be honest with you, it takes 2 seconds to lose your confidence and forever to get it back. If you really arent happy, talk to the dealer. Out of interest, who was it from? If theyre decent they will be more than happy to offer some advice.

Keep us posted, best of luck :)
 
Hi there, just saw your post - sorry for delay!

Am getting on much better now, discovered he had a broken wolf tooth so got it removed and the bolting has stopped (thank goodness!). I am working him 5-6 times a week and am now able to jump him which has been good for my confidence. He sometimes runs off with me if I don't get the same stride as him and am a bit unbalanced but I can stop him so at least he is tolerating me! When he did bolt, I never got off, get going but I am 100% now that it was the tooth that caused the problems.

My main issue now is trying to get him more forward as he is very lazy off the leg and I think because he is such a big horse to move around, I am having to ride much more positively compared to my last horse so it will be a slow journey I think but he is a lovely big horse with a lovely nature so sticking with him.

thanks for your reply.
 
I think you need to get regular lessons as you need to build your confidence and get to know him better, if you are unable to ride more than two hours per week, I would question whether your fitness or riding will improve.
 
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