Advice please!Managing the fatty competition horse-!

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seabsicuit2

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I need some advice on how to manage the weight and energy levels for my Irish sport horse without letting him get miserable and cross through trying to starve him.

He is in plenty of work- he is a 6 year old and is ridden 6 days a week with a variety of 1 hour hacks, schooling, competitions now most weekends, and even short canter sets. He is only doing baby comps at the moment. He does plenty of work, is never allowed to slouch along; he is always working properly in all 3 paces. He always had plenty of energy and gave 100% effort until a few weeks ago.

A few weeks ago to save myself time and money on trips to the yard and on bedding/hay, I started to turn him out 24/7 ( having only been turned out in the mornings up until that point). He would spend a night and a half day in a paddock with good grass, then a night and a half day in a starvation paddock with no grass ( I dont have anything in between at the moment!)
Also instead of 2 feeds a day he just is having one feed a day in the evenings.

The result is that he has actually lost weight despite being on good grass part of the time ( he did look pretty overweight when he was stabled as he just pigs out on his hay ) but now he has less energy, even tho he looks more streamlined. The energy levels are just not good enough for competing, he does as he is told, but he is way too flat- no enthusiasm there at all, when he so wanted to work well when he was stabled.

I hate the idea of going back to having him stabled with all this lovely weather- its just more time,money and expense- but is stabling necessary for this type of horse? And I dont understand why he would have so much more energy when being stabled when he becomes so fat from being stood in all night? ( he actually had cellulite on his bottom/ribs a few weeks ago!! )

He also gets very bad tempered to handle when he's stabled at nights.

He is currently being fed Allen and page power and performance; 1 scoop at night with 1 scoop Alfa-oil. When stabled he gets another scoop in the morning. , when he's out he doesnt get breakfast as the grass he is on is so good.

Any ideas on managing his weight/energy levels/happiness would be great!!

This is him, so you can see the type of horse he is. Big heavy boy.

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I've just gone from a skinny to a fatty!

Mine is out overnight on a paddock with very little grass and in during the day.

He gets 2 small feeds of competition cubes (without any mixer chaff/SB) and 2 slices of hay.

If I had your horse I'd keep him off the grass and have him in the starvation paddock all the time (or in for a spell during the day) and then you have room to add hard feed/hay in a controlled manner.

Not sure why you would give AA oil to a fatty either!
 
I have the same problem - my boy is in a grazing muzzle all year round when he is out on new grass. He is in a sectioned off smallish area & when he first goes on a new bit has grazing muzzle but once down to shortish length he gaers a few days without the muzzle.

When he is stabled he has his net triple bagged to make it last the night.

Using this method I can give him comp cubes, Alpha A light and Redcell which does give that extra energy.

He's also in 6 days a week work & is fit - would be better ridden twice a day but I can't get the time.

I do sympathise as I feel so mean but having him overweight to event isn't fair either.
 
This is my first fatty ever!! I want a skinny back please!:rolleyes:

So unfair because for the first time ever ( I mean ever!) I have all this good grass and what do I have? my first fatty!!:mad::)

Does your horse have enough energy on that diet?

I guess I should change the alfa oil to a chaff, its just force of habit from feeding my skinny TB's!

Allen and Page feeds have to be fed with a chaff or alfa to prevent choke.

The other prob with leaving him in the starvation paddock is that he spends all night kicking water troughs non stop, turning on taps, tearing fencing down etc etc generally being a menance and keeping the neighbours up! he will have to be electrocuted!
 
juliap said:
I have the same problem - my boy is in a grazing muzzle all year round when he is out on new grass. He is in a sectioned off smallish area & when he first goes on a new bit has grazing muzzle but once down to shortish length he gaers a few days without the muzzle.

When he is stabled he has his net triple bagged to make it last the night.

Using this method I can give him comp cubes, Alpha A light and Redcell which does give that extra energy.

He's also in 6 days a week work & is fit - would be better ridden twice a day but I can't get the time.

I do sympathise as I feel so mean but having him overweight to event isn't fair either.
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Yours sounds every bit as much as a fatty as mine! It is a bit of a nightmare!
I'm guessing that he is also prone to loss of energy judging by the feed you give him?
So how much hay do you give him at night?
 
The P&P is a great feed but it is quite high protein/oil, is was what I used to give my skinny!!!

I have to say my chap is carrying less weight than yours and there is no way I would want him on the grass in your pictures.

What about looking at something like D&H competition concentrate (you can add oats if needed), and then feed soaked hay in the starvation paddock.
 
hi i have a horse who would be the size of a house if i let him ;)

i'd cut out the AA oil asap as this is full of calories and will add weight ,if you feed it for a nice shiney coat just add a good vit min suplement instead (i use naff multi vit its fab )

i would also leave him in the starvation paddock ,then you can add a little hay net if needed and have more control of his diet ,i know it sounds a bit mean but he will find little bits to pick on
you could also try changing from the power n performance to a competition mix or add some oats ,i found that power & p was fine for mine through the winter when its a bit chilly and he's clipped but not giving him enough through summer when its warmer.
dodson & horrel comp mix was too much through the winter for mine ,made him mental :D but was fine through summer.
our feed store's own make (farmways) comp mix was a happy medium between the two, but thats my horse and there all different

in summer mine is on oats/sugar beat , naff energy or red cell (red cell is like rocket fuel for some) ,he is on a bare paddock and has hay on night times ,i also clip him all summer as i find this helps as he gets even more lethargic when he gets too hot

in winter he is given a month in a big field to rest and put some weight on as he looses a lot by the end of the season (eventing) then he is on either cool mix or power & P with naff vit & min sup :D

its trial and error really to see what works best for your horse but hope i have given you some ideas :)
 
Interesting about the P&P.... I hadnt thought about the protein/oil levels, I chose it because it was low in starch and thought that it would give him the oomph without the starch but I think some quick release energy feed would work better..

Will have a look at the D&H Competition concentrate.

I know, it is a lot of grass, but I thought I was making things even by putting him into starvation every other night! :rolleyes:
 
angelish said:
hi i have a horse who would be the size of a house if i let him ;)

i'd cut out the AA oil asap as this is full of calories and will add weight ,if you feed it for a nice shiney coat just add a good vit min suplement instead (i use naff multi vit its fab )

i would also leave him in the starvation paddock ,then you can add a little hay net if needed and have more control of his diet ,i know it sounds a bit mean but he will find little bits to pick on
you could also try changing from the power n performance to a competition mix or add some oats ,i found that power & p was fine for mine through the winter when its a bit chilly and he's clipped but not giving him enough through summer when its warmer.
dodson & horrel comp mix was too much through the winter for mine ,made him mental :D but was fine through summer.
our feed store's own make (farmways) comp mix was a happy medium between the two, but thats my horse and there all different

in summer mine is on oats/sugar beat , naff energy or red cell (red cell is like rocket fuel for some) ,he is on a bare paddock and has hay on night times ,i also clip him all summer as i find this helps as he gets even more lethargic when he gets too hot

in winter he is given a month in a big field to rest and put some weight on as he looses a lot by the end of the season (eventing) then he is on either cool mix or power & P with naff vit & min sup :D

its trial and error really to see what works best for your horse but hope i have given you some ideas :)
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Brilliant thank you!! Some great ideas :D. What type of oats do you feed?
 
He has a reasonable size net of haylage (hay net not haylage net)- not stuffed though. He would eat it all in 2 hours if it wasn't triple bagged. He would be on soaked hay but the yard does it's own haylage & that's included in the livery.

Also on shaving as he eats straw.

He would be huge if he had free access to grass - the small sections and muzzle does seem to work. I'll take some photo's tomorrow.

I think very good doers are as hard to manage as poor ones although cheaper!

I have tried him on oats - crushed and naked but he doesn't digest them so ends up as expensive food for the crows who also spread the droppings which makes poo picking hard work.
 
juliap said:
He has a reasonable size net of haylage (hay net not haylage net)- not stuffed though. He would eat it all in 2 hours if it wasn't triple bagged. He would be on soaked hay but the yard does it's own haylage & that's included in the livery.

Also on shaving as he eats straw.

He would be huge if he had free access to grass - the small sections and muzzle does seem to work. I'll take some photo's tomorrow.

I think very good doers are as hard to manage as poor ones although cheaper!

I have tried him on oats - crushed and naked but he doesn't digest them so ends up as expensive food for the crows who also spread the droppings which makes poo picking hard work.
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Thank you & some photos would be great if you have a moment- I'd be really interested to see them. Only had this horse since November & its never even crossed my mind about how to manage a fat horse before! Its hard work!!:rolleyes:
 
angelish said:
:) i'd electrocute him keep him out of trouble or buy some very hungry/greedy sheep :D
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Sheep would be better otherwise I'm going to be too tempted to go and buy lots of skinny thoroughbreds, which would be a very BAD idea!! Especially after fatboys performance at a hunter trial today where he behaved like a proper fatboy and could hardly haul himself around,so I am craving some speed and sharpness, but sheep would make more financial sense!
 
Nice to know there are others struggling to make their competition fat-boys slim too! Mine is not turned out much, fed mainly haylage and just switched to a low-cal Saracens feed of which he gets only tiny amounts for vits and minerals. He does have enough energy for the time being - but you have to motivate it out of him as he's naturally inclined to be lazy.

It's not so much a worry that he is one of life's 'fatties', more that he can add weight so fast it's difficult to keep on top of and notice it creeping back up. Fortunately he has a new bale of haylage that he's not too partial to at the moment, so that will help!!
 
I, I have the exact same problem with Pig. Tried the routine you are on but she just gorged non stop when in the other paddock.

She now is in, in the day out on a minimal paddock at night. With a very small soaked net in the daytime, soaking has made the biggest difference by far!! She also gets hi fi cubes for bits and mins but well below the recommended level as advised by the vet. Oh and I said Harry and his other TB friend can go in the paddocks to eat them well down before she gets a look in.

Who is this one by, I don't recognise him? How is Pops? :)
 
i had a mare who was the same, she got to 2* on a VERY strict diet... paddock with v little grass in, soaked whole oats + balancer, small haynets of over-soaked hay (to leach out any calories, basically), and quite a bit of 'sharp' work - sprints on the gallops, that sort of thing. some good advice here already though. you definitely want to be able to see the outline of at least the last couple of ribs imho.
 
I've a fat dressage horse and also swear by oats to keep up the energy levels without piling on the weight. He's working hard, starting grand prix work, out in poor grazing all the time, and fed oats, hi fi and speedibeet. He's just about ok weight wise, but I can't feel ribs. Bloody good-doers!!
 
When my cob was eventing, I micro managed her diet. She has about 1/4 acre paddock,(maybe not even that) that she was in all day. When the grass burnt away, she got hay out there. In at night with one net of hay at 11pm, and oats, ready grass and vitamins.

I interval trained her weekly, and she hacked out the rest of the time, nearly always fast hacks and schooled maybe once a week on grass. This kept her slim and fit enough to do several unaff 3DE at 90cm.
 
I've got a Polish sport horse who looks a similar shape to your boy. I'm lucky in that I have very poor grazing in my favour but it's still a struggle to manage his waistline. With the grass in that picture you look like you're fighting an uphill battle!! Have you tried a grazing muzzle instead of switching between paddocks? I know mine would simply gorge as soon as he got the chance.

My boy gets half a scoop of of alfa and half a scoop of pasture mix plus balancer and a joint supplement. He's out on poor grazing 24/7 since the beginning of the month and has also been a bit flat since going out 24/7. I keep him in overnight the night before a competition and swap his pasture mix for a competition mix for 4 days or so.

Like your boy he gets ridden 6 days per week and is competing at a low level.
 
My fatty is 24/7 in a starvation paddock, with hay, or out at night & in during the day. i like them in out of the sun & away from the flies anyway so it's not an issue. I hate them, to be really starved & miserable and have only ever fed competition mix for a 2 day event years ago. Never had hard food since then tbh. She can be lazy & stuffy on occasion but I think that has to do with her type & I have to live with it.
 
I have the same issue with my boy he is currently on one of the tiny scoops of pony nuts and 2 and a half of tiger oats. The oats have made a bit of a diffrence but not as much as I had hoped :( I also was told I was crazy giving him oats but he is fine. May try some red cell as someone mentioned earlier.
 
i would work his turnout regime around the riding time. if you ride at night put him on starvation paddock in the day so he isnt bloated and full. if you ride am put him in starvation paddock overnight. split his p&p and alpha to 2 feeds(would drop the alpha oil) and add an iron tonic (red cell, pro plus. liquid blood) approx 3 times a week. when due for comp make sure he has been on rations the night before, but with a quality bucket feed. so use your starvation paddock as the stable hours. short grass is more stressed so strangely has more calorific value due to the sugars.
 
Mine is now out 24/7 on a starvation paddock. I move the fence about a foot every few days so he has a bit of fresh grass.

He then has 1 feed of-

1/4 scoop of D&H Competiton Concentrate
1/4 scoop of Alfa A Oil
1/4 scoop of Hi-Fi Lite
1/2 mug of cooked linseed
Garlic
Selenium & Vit E

And he is just about perfect weight again now after being in 24/7 in winter (his choice, not mine) on ad lib hay.
 
Part of the problem might be that whilst he is in the field he is going for a good buck and a gallop which he obviously couldn't do in the stable, so he maybe burns off some of that competition energy? My horse is super lazy anyway, but with turnout he is practically horizontal!
 
I would agree with the posters above re:oats and oat based feed. My dressage horse is a natural fatty - when he was off proper work and just walking in hand for half an hour a day I fed him hay and nothing else and he didnt lose any weight at all :). I have never seen his ribs either, and when I got him he was vast. I find that what makes a difference is the energy levels when working - he stays the same size but has no energy if he is not eating enough grub so when he is in hard work he gets competition mix with lots of oats in twice a day - a scoop and a bit in each meal.
 
Ive got the same prob with the daughters pony! I can't fence him a section off in the field cos he just jumps out (electrified or not!!) So he ends up having the run of 3 acres of lovely grass! He's in every night & every other day to try & reduce his grass intake, then fed on a scoop of Winergy Equilibrium high energy, a handful of oats & a splash of iron suppliment twice a day, then a small net of half hay half hayledge on a night. I'm so paranoid of him being a chunky lad, but he needs the energy levels! He's ridden 6 days a week competing every weekend over the summer (mainly Bsja 1m-1.10m). The daughters gonna try & ride him twice a day in the holidays, I just don't know how to get the weight off!!
 
Thanks so much everyone!! Lots of ideas. I will have a play around with feed and routine.

Nikki- this is my boy by Cougar ( Cruising!) another bay with a white star! And Poppy is doing very well. Ever so cute and cuddly and has just 3 months to go!
 
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