ADVICE PLEASE ON POSSIBLE STRANGLES

[SACHAPIGER]

Is there anyone who can answer me on the following question, have logged onto many of the strangles sites, but cannot get a definitive answer. A new horse arrived on very good friend and neighbours yard, off colour, low, tired, not eating and with swollen glands under jaw, the swellings moved up to around the temples and below the ears in the Eustachian tube area, and then gradually subsided over two to three weeks. Said horse now fit and well and bonny. Yard owner baffled and upset, he is a very careful owner, always on the watch for problems. 2 weeks after her arrival, other horses on the yard started going down with full blown properly diagnosed strangles. All the other horses on the yard have not been anywhere, do not hack out, and nothing else new on yard.

Too many differing opinions: One vet states that the swellings on new mare would definitely have come to a head and burst if it was strangles, another vet says no, - she may have had a degree of immunity, and although infective, recovered without abcesses. Any clues, or comments, or experience passed on would be very gratefully received. Thanks so much!

 

[Bananarama]

It could be from people coming onto the yard that have been in contact with other horses else where. But I reckon its the newbie

 

[mandk]

Hi,

Some horses can carry strangles and have no symtons at all, yet share it around and pass it to everyone else.

Like with any illness, each horse shows symptons to different degrees.

The only way to confirm ANY strangles case is to take a swab (taken by a Vet). To know for definate either way they will have to get a swab done.

I hope this helps & that they are all okay?

Kate

 

[SACHAPIGER]

Thanks Kate, yes they are doing fine, - one was very unwell with lots of abcesses, two not too bad, and YO doing a fantastic job of quarantine and isolation. Vets being brilliant too, very upsetting though, as you can imagine. (one of the worst hit was a valuable foal - but he is coming out of it now, and hurtling round his isolation box wondering what all the fuss has been about). The more you read about strangles though, the more contradictory information you find. Tks for your kind thoughts.. (I have been drafted in to help and now have Virkon coloured hands and my clothes which are boil-washed have long since lost colour!

 

[Tia]

As mandk says, horses can be what is known as "silent carriers". They show no symptoms but are still capable of passing the condition onto other horses.

The one bright light about horses catching and recovering from strangles is that about 75% of those horses develop immunity to it...often a lifelong immunity.

My yard caught a form of strep a number of years ago, put down to a horse who arrived being a possible carrier. They were tested for strangles and the return was negative but they did have a different form of strep.

 

[Tierra]

You can have silent strangles carriers; usually those who have suffered with strangles but still carry it in their gutteral pouches (this is why any horse with strangles should be swabbed a couple of times after its cleared up. Mine was done twice, first at three months after then at 6 months after)

You can also have horses with strangles that will not have any absesses at all. Mine had the temperature and an awfully runny nose but he never had any absesses. His glands were slightly up, but not excessively so and there was no swelling under his chin at all.

If the horses have been no where and in contact with nothing else, id say its quite obvious where its come from tbh

 

[GreedyGuts]

I would say with 99% certainty that the horse that came onto the yard had strangles. Worth getting it scoped to have a look at the lymph nodes, they might be pussy and go on to burst out, and GP washes can be obtained for culture. If the mare was given antibiotics it might have affected the course of the disease and prevented/slowed rupture of the abscessed glands. Also not all horses get the full blown disease but can still spread it. The symptoms you describe are characteristic.

 

[SACHAPIGER]

Hello, and thank you all for your input. Have just had it confirmed by two specialist vets (who have done a lot of research into strangles) YES, a horse can present with fairly swollen glands under jaw, up around face, no nasal discharge, and only vaguely under the weather, and recover with the aid of antibiotics, and swellings need not - necessarily, become abcesses which then burst. This explains a LOT, - (owner of said mare adamant she was only suffering from "some kind of allergy" ) - clearly she was not, clearly she carried strangles in... Please all be warned, there need not be terribly raised temperature, there need not be a lot of "snot" (sorry) - indeed any, - there need not be abcesses, and swellings can fade away without bursting...

So if a horse has a swollen face, and is slightly off colour BEWARE, don't wait for the more serious signs ... this can quite easily be STRANGLES, and go through your yard!!

Good luck to anyone else out there struggling with this - hope you are not on the receiving end of some of the very unkind comments that have come our way this last few weeks! As though YO went out "looking" for strangles to bring onto yard, for fun huh? GOD there are some spiteful, spineless ignorant, unkind - holier than thou folk out there!

 

[Tia]

I expect they are upset at having to be quarantined for a couple of months. Hopefully you are all on a decent sized yard with riding areas available on-site.

I personally would never ever go down the Penicillin G route though.

So has the vet swabbed all the horses? How many of them have shown positive swab results?

 

[SACHAPIGER]

Hi Tia, and thank you for this. 5 tested positive, owner of mare refuses tests. May well get marching orders, but YO too responsible to do it just yet, until all-clear is received. Big mistake this YO taking on a horse/owner he does not have control over -(long complicated story) said mare owner now also claiming that his vet CONFIRMS it is <font color="red"> </font> all right for him to hack the mare out. Any comments ANYONE? YO vet agog at this suggestion, the yard is supposed to be in quarantine... rather makes a mockery of all the hard work of isolation, quarantine, disinfection, etc.
A very tricky position. Any of you know of a vet that would happily recommend an owner hacks a horse OUT of a quarantined yard, in a very horse populated area, knowing the yard has 5 confirmed cases of strangles? STEPS very clearly says absolutely no. Nothing should leave the yard,
BHS ditto... but a vet? from a fairly large practice? Happily recommending the mare can go out hacking? Surely not, or are we over-reacting.... ? Is all the isolation work, quarantine, disinfection, just for fun?

 

[Tia]

Sorry no I can't ever imagine ANY vet saying that any horse, from a yard with strangles on it, can go out. No just isn't done! The woman cannot be telling the truth and if I was the YO I would be going straight to this vet practice in person and asking for him to put that in writing!

As previously said, a handful of horses on my yard contracted a strain of Equi Strep, which was not strangles but similar, however the moment I realised this I placed our whole yard on quarantine. My liveries were very responsible and yes they did ride their horses during our self-imposed quarantine but they remained on our land and did not venture off.

I discouraged visiting people from coming to the yard during this period and kept any who did, well away from the horses. I set up disinfecting stations and changed where people could park their vehicles etc.

It was amazing how quickly the 60 days was over and done with though. I believe we were very responsible with dealing with this case. Out of over 40 horses, and with the quarantine being done in fields rather than stabling, there were only 5 horses infected. I went through a lot of Povidone and we were helped dramatically by the weather and temperatures around us at that time, so it was very short-lived.

Tell your woman to do the honourable thing - keep her horse at home.

 

[SACHAPIGER]

THANKS TIA, WE ARE VERY SORELY TEMPTED TO CONTACT THIS VET AND ASK IF THIS IS THE TRUTH..
NONE OF US CAN BELIEVE IT. OWNER ADAMANT THEIR VET SAYS IT IS PERFECTLY ALL RIGHT TO HACK OUT. WATCHING THE HORSE GO OUT MAKES ME WANT TO TAKE A SHOTGUN (TO THE OWNER, NOT THE HORSE!!)

WE HAVE INSISTED THE HORSE MUST NOT GO OUT, - BUT SHORT OF GETTING PHYSICAL, NOT SURE WHAT ELSE WE CAN DO! THIS IS OF COURSE HOW IT SPREADS AND HOW INNOCENT CAREFUL OWNERS BECOME THE VICTIMS.
AM CONSULTING WITH OUR VET LATER - PERHAPS OUR VET WILL RING THEIR VET AND GET TO THE TRUTH....
PERHAPS THE AHT MIGHT LIKE TO KNOW? ....
THANKS FOR YOUR KIND WORDS OF ENCOURAGEMENT.

 

[kerilli]

Spa, if you know his/her name, ring the vet who has allegedly said this and politely ask the question, say that this woman is claiming that he has given her the all-clear to hack out a mare (which is/was very probably the carrier) from a quarantined yard, and if this is correct, you need to see it in writing (or YO does, to protect her from claims etc.)
it is absolutely ridiculous, i cannot believe any equine vet who knows anything at all about strangles would give permission.
perhaps think of calling Royal College of Vet Surgeons for advice?
if i kept my horse locally and it was at risk because of this woman's total stupidity i would be absolutely LIVID.

 

[brighteyes]

Out of four, one of mine was classic, one had high temp, stiff neck no visible abscess but got a serious secondary infection, one had the snots for two days but wasn't otherwise ill and one showed nothing whatsoever.

Sadly, strangles isn't notifiable and you can legally wander about giving it to whoever you like

 

[SACHAPIGER]

Hi Kerilli,

Thanks for that, it was the back-up push I needed, rang said vet, no reponse, left a message, eagerly awaiting response.
If Vet not prepared to answer me, then I shall most definitely contact some official bodies, RCVS and AHT first, followed by DEFRA and anyone else I can think of.

I cannot believe human nature..... I am alright Jack, my horse has been through it, infected your lot (because I managed to keep it a secret until your horses started going down with it!!) and now, I am happy to hack out and infect the locals.

I cannot tell you how disturbing this is. A local Hunt (YES HUNT) field master backing owner and saying perfectly all right for owner to hunt on Monday! Watch this space anyone interested...

Isn't it about time this became a NOTIFIABLE DISEASE???

THEN one telephone call from us, and this person would be stopped dead in their tracks! - before more horses are ill, and more businesses are ruined!

Perhaps we should lobby for this to become notifiable?? Any thoughts anyone. Also have to say, as a newcomer to this forum, I am moved to tears by the private supportive emails I have received. Thank you all, (many of you, with their own private tales of woe.... strangles is vile, but the secretive owners who think it best to keep schtuummm are more vile.)
Thank you all!

 

[flowerlady]

Hope your yard is not to near this one as I've heard it carries in the wind. Also all bedding and swabs from bathing nostrils etc should be burned. affected horses should not be turned out with healthy animals as bacteria from the nasal discharge will remain infective for at least a month. When the horses are recovered all rugs, headcollars should be disinfected including the stable. And protective clothing and disposable gloves should be worn to stop the infection speading.

If this lady was on my yard and wouldn't listen. I would have to say if you take the horse off the yard you will not be allowed back on.

GOOD LUCK