Advice please - picking up poo

Nancykitt

Nancykitt

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I've just had an email from the chair of the local community council. There was a meeting last night and apparently three people raised concerns about the amount of horse manure in the village, especially on the lane running down to the main road through the village (which we need to ride down every time we go out). The email says that the Chair has written to all horse owners in the area to ask if we can 'clear manure from public areas'.

Re. horse owners, there's three of us in the village, with a total of seven horses between us (including two miniatures that don't seem to go out much).

The lane down to the main road is about a quarter of a mile long. The only one of our horses to have pooed there is Ozzy. In total, since June, he's done three poos on that lane.
The other two horses tend not to poo there but have been known to go on the dirt track (no vehicles) that runs alongside the coast.

Has anyone had similar complaints? How would you respond?

1. Completely ignore the email and don't pick up anything.
2. Don't reply to the email but pick up droppings on the lane after riding - but no picking up poo on the main road through the actual village.
3. As above, but reply to the email and say that this is what we're going to do, basically we will clear up after our own horses on the lane.
4. Try to speak to the other horse owner(s) and come to some sort of agreement. Could be tricky (and I don't know what they'd say).

I am ruling out going round in a car after a hack to pick up poo from the main road running through the village.

One issue is that I don't think it's reasonable to expect me to pick up other horses' droppings on the lane, but I could then get blamed for muck on the lane that isn't actually ours!

This is a bit delicate so I want to think through how to deal with it.

TBH there are much more major issues for the community council to deal with (eg, camper vans emptying chemical toilets etc) but it is what it is, I suppose.
 
Amymay Again said:
Is the lane particularly narrow?
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It's essentially a surfaced single-track road with a couple of passing places. It's quite open on both sides, with crofts at either side of the lane.

I suppose they're complaining because lots of people go for walks down the lane, but it's not as if the droppings take up the whole road.
However, I think there are more drivers than pedestrians and the poo gets squashed by the tyres pretty quickly.
 
Oh god guess they have nothing better to worry about.

I had a guy (with a walking stick and those nice velcro slipper type shoes on) chase us up through the village to make his feelings known about Reggie leaving a present in the road. As we didn't bow to his demands he shouted up the road 'you only ride those horses for your own s#xual gratification' he was attending an under 11's football tournament on the rec at the time or at least the was one going on and in ear shot. We turned off the road just in time to see a few parents heading in his direction - I do hope he had a dressing down for his language and a least one of them owned horses.

As far as your email is concerned I'd ignore it. With winter coming the manure will be washed of the road with rain quite quickly anyway. By spring they'll hopefully have moved on to Mrs Jones and her overhanging rose bushes.
 
In the village (township) where I loved and rode for many months in New Zealand, we always went and picked up any poo left on residential streets after we’d been by. Yes it was a faff but it kept everyone happy and it’s not especially nice looking at a pile of poo slowly disappearing over many weeks outside your house.

Brits tolerate low standards too often, good for them for asking you to take action.
 
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Nancykitt said:
It's essentially a surfaced single-track road with a couple of passing places. It's quite open on both sides, with crofts at either side of the lane.

I suppose they're complaining because lots of people go for walks down the lane, but it's not as if the droppings take up the whole road.
However, I think there are more drivers than pedestrians and the poo gets squashed by the tyres pretty quickly.
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If it's a 'road' too. Ignore.
 
There are no houses at either side of the lane so no-one is looking at it from their homes. There are grass verges at either side, then wire fences with crofts at either side.
If I was going to go and pick it up from the lane after a ride I'd need to be quick as the (very speedy) cars flatten it very quickly. Some people, including one of the complainants, drive at a ridiculous speed down that lane but obviously the horse poo is more of a problem...

OH has just met one of the other horse owners outside and discussed the matter with her; she says that she always kicks the droppings off the road and into the grass verge. It wouldn't surprise me if she was actually one of the people who complained.
It also emerged that last week, when the massive rattling lorry was thundering through the village and we pulled the horses over into a parking bay, Ozzy's reaction was a 'stress poo' in the parking bay. Apparently this was a massive problem...

I feel a bit rubbish about it, especially as we now know that we haven't got (at least one of) the other horse owners on side.


I am now thinking along the lines of saying that I will pick up our own horses' poo from the lane but not the main road through the village. The village is pretty quiet a lot of the time but we do get some enormous lorries - plus the local bus, which is effectively a coach - going through every day. It is simply not safe to keep getting off and there are limited places to remount.
I think this is reasonable.
 
Hmm, I wouldn’t reply to the email I don’t think. If Ozzy poos in a similar spot along the road do you have an old poop scoop fork or shovel you could leave along the lane to chuck it into the verge?

I’ve removed muck depending on where it’s been done. I’ve had to make grass gloves a few times as there was nowhere I could kick it out of the way but I do try to be considerate if I can and clear up any mess near someone’s drive etc.

I don’t think it’s up to you to speak to the other horse owners unless it’s something you’d speak about anyway.
 
Those that matter don't mind and those that mind don't matter.

Practically - other than driving around and collecting it (which isn't really practical) there isn't much you can do. You're also not breaking any rules so nothing they can do either.

I think this year with the drought it has been worse as poo has stayed on the roads longer than usual. I ride in a housing estate a lot (no other choice in poor weather) and I've had Facebook moaning.

I would ignore it - if you happen to feel him start to poo, perhaps walk on the verge for a bit so most of it is on there. and if you happen to be walking on the lane then kick it to the side (if it's still in big lumps).

I think it is more car drivers who have it flicked onto their precious vehicles - rather than pedestrians who can easily walk around it.
 
Peglo said:
Hmm, I wouldn’t reply to the email I don’t think. If Ozzy poos in a similar spot along the road do you have an old poop scoop fork or shovel you could leave along the lane to chuck it into the verge?

I’ve removed muck depending on where it’s been done. I’ve had to make grass gloves a few times as there was nowhere I could kick it out of the way but I do try to be considerate if I can and clear up any mess near someone’s drive etc.

I don’t think it’s up to you to speak to the other horse owners unless it’s something you’d speak about anyway.
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He's not pooed in the same place twice, unfortunately! Last time he went out he only did the one, but it was the stress poo in the parking bay. That is some way from home so we'd have to go out in the car to shift it.
The other two horses (Snoopy and AJ) haven't really caused a problem at any stage.
So we're talking about a total of four poos (all by Ozzy over the last few months) in about six years. I think that's why I'm a bit annoyed. It's not like we've been polluting the area consistently.

The thing about kicking it onto the verge is interesting because when cars appear pedestrians have to move on to the grass verge to get out of the way.
So the other horse owner isn't actually shifting it, she just moving it off the track.
Still, if that makes everyone happy...
 
How tricky!
To be honest, as it is a road, and not a particularly suburban road either, I would suggest perhaps respond in a polite way and say that it is not a requirement to do so and seems a bit both unreasonable and unnecessary to request it. Perhaps offer to monitor.
I wouldn't want to set a precedence and start clearing the road!
 
Tarragon said:
How tricky!
To be honest, as it is a road, and not a particularly suburban road either, I would suggest perhaps respond in a polite way and say that it is not a requirement to do so and seems a bit both unreasonable and unnecessary to request it. Perhaps offer to monitor.
I wouldn't want to set a precedence and start clearing the road!
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This! I would not put yourself at risk clearing poo off a narrow fast moving road. It seems totally unreasonable to expect you to do so.
 
We had this but on a village discussion forum.

Most people, riders and non riders, thought it a ridiculous request. The moaning Minnie who stepped in a poo got more stick than the horses! Most commented that we couldn't be held to account for a) him not looking where he was going and b) a horse daring to do what come naturally! Lots of comments also about free manure for compost bins = no need to buy it bagged from the garden centre and think goodness he didn't live here when we still had a riding school!

TBH I'd be ignoring the email. How'd they get your address anyway?
 
I'd ignore it. I don't know exactly where you are, but I know those NW Hghland roads that go through a village with crofts on the side, usually set well back from the road. It's a public road. You have no legal obligation to clear poo, no more than the owner of the free range sheep. What are they gonna do?

We had a thing a couple years ago. Mugdock Park allegedly contacted the local yards in the area and asked them to tell horse riders to clear up poo on the trails. If we were out with a foot soldier (aka, my husband), we had some half-a*rsed compliance because he could just kick it off the trail. But when hacking solo or with a group of riders and no foot soldiers, it was impractical, and we ignored it. Someone went through the trouble of spraypainting white circles around piles of poo. God knows. Then little laminated signs appeared, stapled to trees, demanding that riders remove poo. OH and I started removing the signs. We'd take down a few, then more appeared. This went back and forth for a couple months. We collected 22 in one evening! It was a bit over the top. We didn't know if the park was putting them up, or a concerned citizen.

Finally (22 signs was getting ridiculous), I contacted the park, quoting the 2003 Scottish Land Access Law and the BHS advice on horse poo (which says it's nice if you can safely clean it off busy trails, but not necessary because horse shight isn't toxic, yadda, yadda, yadda, and the 'safely' part is key). SOAC, among other things, says landowners can't do stuff that would be seen as off-putting to access takers, and I said that the demands and all the signs about horse poo could be seen as a barrier to equestrian access takers with tall horses, nervous horses, or any issue that made it difficult/unsafe to be getting on and off all the time.

My mate also contacted them, as a concerned dog-walker, to complain that all the signs stapled to trees were tacky; it marred her experience of the beautiful woodland, and it's really bad for the trees (she included some sources backing that assertion).

The park responded, denying that they'd ever asked us to remove horse poo, and saying they were not restricting equestrian access in any way. Good! My YO wouldn't have sent us the initial message out of nowhere, so who knows what really happened there. But the signs my OH, and I hadn't got round to nicking promptly disappeared. Never heard a word about it again.
 
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Indeed! Who broke GDPR and gave them your email address or used it for a purpose it wasn't given for? That is far more serious than a bit of horse muck on a road.
I would ignore the email but maybe put a poster up in the village hall/local shop offering manure for a small fee. Then the complainers will be running out to collect it thinking they've got something for nothing. I might also put up a poster explaining that as horses are herbivores their muck doesn't carry disease.
 
3OldPonies said:
TBH I'd be ignoring the email. How'd they get your address anyway?
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It's a very close community and we know the Chair pretty well. We don't know the identity of the three people who have complained.

Thing is, we have a new horse, he has a few issues (but is improving) and he's a bit nervous when he goes out. It's not like we've been soiling the area for years because we haven't.

What a pity people have to make such a big thing out of it.
 
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Hmm I used to have a bucket and shovel and pick anything obvious up on way home when it was on the village street if I wasn't in a hurry. Is it completely dog poo free?

I'd probably just not respond but grab a shovel and stop and fling in the hedge if you had time on the little country road. Might stop the odd speed merchant too if you are in the way.
 
A number of years ago BHS Scotland had a campaign with posters about this. We have a multi use path that people use to access hacking areas and to leave the path they have to cross a pavement. We also have a secondary school that hackers pass so have had quite a few complaints over the years. In order to maintain good public relations all my liveries are asked to dismount if on the path and can safely do so and kick the dung off the path or failing that go back later and do so. I can understand people don't want it on pushchair wheels and the school don't want pupils bringing it into school on their shoes. On the road it is usually dispersed by car tyres. This is the BHS Scotland guidance.

BHS Scotland encourages horse riders to be considerate and clear up horse dung on shared paths for the benefit of other users, though there is no legal requirement for them to do so in Scotland. While horse manure isn't harmful like dog faeces, it can be an unpleasant nuisance. Responsible access takers should aim to move their horse off the path before it dungs, and if it dungs on a shared path, they should dismount and move the dung to the side if it is safe to do so. Riding schools are also encouraged to organize "poo runs" to clear any accumulated dung on popular routes.
Why there's no legal requirement:
Unlike dog faeces, dung from a healthy horse is not considered a risk to human health.
For a rider, dismounting to pick up dung may not be practical or safe, although it is more feasible for a horse-drawn carriage.
BHS Scotland's recommended good practice:
Dismount and move it:
If your horse dungs on a shared path, dismount and safely kick the dung to the side.
Organise "poo runs":
Riding schools or groups can schedule regular clean-up rides to clear popular routes.
Consider others:
Be aware of the potential impact on other path users, especially those with wheelchairs or pushchairs.
Responsible behaviour:
Remember that the Land Reform (Scotland) Act 2003 grants access rights but also emphasizes responsible behaviour from all users.
 
mariew said:
Hmm I used to have a bucket and shovel and pick anything obvious up on way home when it was on the village street if I wasn't in a hurry. Is it completely dog poo free?

I'd probably just not respond but grab a shovel and stop and fling in the hedge if you had time on the little country road. Might stop the odd speed merchant too if you are in the way.
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I'll move it onto the grass verge (there isn't a hedge), because it appears that this is what the other horse owner does. If pedestrians complain that the grass verge, which they have to step onto to avoid the cars, has horse droppings on it, there's not a lot I can do about that. I am only considering picking up the stuff on the lane as a gesture of goodwill, but if anyone kicks off I'd probably stop picking up any of it.
There's no way we could safely pick up poo from the main road running through the village.
 
I wouldn't ignore it.
I'd be more inclined to respond explaining why horse muck isn't the same issue and doesn't have the same health hazards as dog poo. Also explain why getting off to pick it up is neither practical nor safe.

Ignoring it smacks of high handedness to a non horsey person.
 
dreamcometrue said:
Surely you would have to close the road while clearing up the poo. That’s what happens on the roads when the council is clearing rubbish thrown from cars.
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Well I’d certainly have to move onto the grass verge (which could feature other horses’ poo as well as my own horses’ poo…) - but clearly they’re not really bothered about that!
 
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