Advice please re: failed vetting

metalmare

metalmare

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Hi all,

I know a failed vetting should probably mean case closed on a potential purchase, but the decision doesn't seem so simple.

I've had a 2 stage vetting completed on a 7 year old mare, that I would like to purchase for hacking and as a family horse. I'd be riding probably from 1-3 hours as a general rule, at a gentle pace, off and on roads.

The horse performed fine in the vetting until it came to flexion tests, which threw her up as having low grade lameness in her hinds. The vet couldn't be more specific and said that if she were already my horse, she'd advise continuing work and monitoring the lameness, but that she couldn't recommend a purchase on the basis that the lameness could worsen.

The current owner has been using the mare as a light hack for 2 years without any issues. Worst case scenario might be that the mare has to retire young and be a companion, I suppose... Although worse case scenario could alternatively involve lots of vets bills.

I really like the horse in every way, in terms of personality, etc. She has many good points, such as rock hard feet and I'll be gutted if I have to say no, but I'm really in a quandary.

Any advice from anyone with experience of lameness and vetting would be much appreciated, thank you.
 
hmmmm, tread carefully. It could be something or nothing. I guess it depends on you only ever wanting to hack and not decide you want to do more with her later on and if she should become unridden, could you keep her til the end of her days and still pay for her whilst buying something else to ride (if thats what you want). I should think it will knock the asking price down somewhat!
 
forgot to add, both her back legs will be excluded in any insurance policy and possibly her pelvis area, depending on the vets report. So you will have to stump up the cash your self.
 
We had a pony who failed on front flexion tests, both legs, hopping. Vet failed as not suitable for PC eventing. I begged my parents to take the chance - best pony I ever had, did 6 years of county WHP / PC eventing with me then went on to do 6 years of dressage before spending his older years introducing a 12 year old to "proper" competition. The lameness detected on the flexion tests never resurfaced.

But that's just my story. Failing a vetting wouldn't necessarily put me off, as you'd alluded to it depends what you want the horse for and whether you have the facilities/resources to manage things if it goes wrong.
 
I asked the same question 2 years ago and got similar replies. Went with heart and not the head bought the horse and learnt my lesson.

Like people said to me it costs as much to keep a bad horse as it does a good one (or sound / unsound).

You could have many years of happy hacking or she could break down and you be left with huge vet bills, a field ornament you cannot ride and the monthly expenditure.
 
amymay said:
You had the horse vested for a reason.......

I would probably walk away.
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+1, if you have it vetted then listen to what they say.

Personally I wouldn't have a flexion test done as they are known to throw bad results.

If it was a 20yo horse I would ignore it, not in a 7yo. I'd walk away. Not worth losing your insurance at that young an age

Pan
 
Its difficult though when your heart says yes ... but if I paid for a vetting then I would take note of the advice - personally I wouldn't go ahead - like above there are lots of other horses around ...
 
Yes, I know this is the logical thing to do. It certainly would knock the price down a lot as she is to be readvertised as a companion if I don't have her. If it were just the chance of her being out of work it wouldn't be so bad; I could live with her being a companion. I don't want high odds of huge vets bills though; as someone said there will be an insurance exclusion.
 
walk away. Low grade lameness in the hocks at 7 is VERY bad news. I might take a chance on a much older horse putting it down to wear and tear but in a 7 year old? if the mare broke completely then you could be looking at 20 + years as a field ornament plus as already mentioned, insurance exclusions and the cost of the intermediate vet treatment when it does go wrong.

The only way to really find out what is the problem is to x ray the hocks. That will set you back anything between £240 - £340 but if you paid for a 2* and hacking only suspect it will not be worth your while.

I found Mr Perfect in August. He failed the vetting on the flexions and vet wasn't happy. Pushed ahead with x rays as he was meant to be my eventer again and they were horrendous. If I had ignored a pretty low grade stiffness I could well have bought an 8 year which - after looking at the xrays, my vet thought had less than 18 months soundness left - with injections. Not the owners fault and she has lost out financially very heavily too.
 
Yes, it looks like I have to move on. It's pretty heartbreaking after weeks spent getting to know her and all the investment of time and money for nothing. Grrr, bad luck lately... Need some good news!
 
metalmare said:
Yes, I know this is the logical thing to do. It certainly would knock the price down a lot as she is to be readvertised as a companion if I don't have her. If it were just the chance of her being out of work it wouldn't be so bad; I could live with her being a companion. I don't want high odds of huge vets bills though; as someone said there will be an insurance exclusion.
Click to expand...

This and your later post describe the situation with my mare (advertised as for sale as a broodmare) I also invested a lot of time, money and heart into her before purchase. I bought my mare for 75% what she was advertised at and said I would be happy just to keep her as a companion but the more I put into her the more I wanted to be riding her and getting her out and about but I don't think she will ever be up to jumping. The bills started with a huge vet bill a week after she came home to find out what was wrong with her to fail the vetting, not to mention re-starting jabs etc!

Next horse I am not going to put so much heart into, it will be a head decision and the heart can follow later. My first horse who sailed through his vetting is still going strong 17 years on at age 22...
 
umm these vets do have to cover their backs these days, I must admit that it wouldn't bother me, these test are proved to be not that reliable anyway !:(
 
Well, I thought the vet was excellent, but I almost felt that between the lines she was saying that she couldn't technically pass the horse, but that it probably wouldn't affect my plans... Off record. In reality, I was probably just hearing what I wanted to hear.

And, as much as I say I wouldn't mind keeping her as a companion, do I really want to pay for a second horse for the sake of it? I don't know whether I'm being really honest with myself. I said to the owner, if I had my own land, as is the plan in the coming years, I'd give her a go... But that doesn't help now. And although she has excellent pedigree and has bred a foal I wouldn't personally breed from her, not knowing what's wrong.
 
I was in a similar position a few years ago and again got similar responses but it was for a 10 year old ex racehorse who was pretty high mileage. I got him and its all turned out ok but saying that, still not sure i'd do it again. Horses get so many problems along the way- you'll soon have your fair share of new things to worry about so why go into it with problems in the first place.

Heartbreaking after getting to know them and falling in love though.
 
I have to say, like others I would probably walk away, especially at her age. Know its heart wrenching when you have found one you like but I'm sure Mr/Miss Perfect is out there somewhere!
 
Yeah, I have tried to argue with myself that buying a horse is always risky, but some risks you can't help and I realise this risk I can... So it's a bit daft really. She is so low mileage, which is what makes me think it must be some conformational weakness and therefore no future for her as a broodmare. As we know from dog breeding, having a good pedigree doesn't mean a healthy animal!
 
Everything happens for a reason - trust the vet. I did and let a gelding go as he failed in exactly the same way. I cried for hours as I had fallen in love with him.....

Turns out a Vet bought him but only as she was sure she could treat him - for free!

I bought my mare and I had only been after a hack too, as she is capable of more it turns out we will be at our first shows this Summer!

Hold out, the right one is out there x
 
I would walk away - but just to add, if you do decide to take her on (at a very reduced price) you don't always have to show the insurance companies a copy of the vetting if they are not insured for much.
The last horse I bought passed a five stage with flying colours and I insured him for £1,500. When I asked about sending them a copy of the vetting they told me they didn't need to see it as he was low value.
 
I know you are all right and objective - thank you all for the detailed responses. I think I might have a fox and the grapes moment and convince myself of the things that weren't right anyway :-)

And as you all say, there will be another one out there.
 
and the other side of the coin is that you can have a horse pass a 5 stage vetting only for it to go wrong very quickly after you get it! This happened to me. I only owned the horse in question for 3 years before he had to be PTS at the age of 10 with a multitude of problems

The best horses I have owned I bought without having them vetted. Didn't pay a fortune for them and they had their problems but not major ones.

My daughters horse failed his vetting at the age of 6 with a grade 4 heart murmur. We still went and bought him. He is 14 now and still going strong!

You pay your money, you make your choice amd it really depends on what you want to do.

ps Even though I have a horse vetted I never tell the insurance company that I have. I consider the vetting for my benefit and not theirs.
 
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I would be wary. My sister's lad failed the flexion test first go round, but passed a few weeks later when re-vetted. Turns out he has navicular :(. I don't know if that was related to the failed flexion test, but it wouldn't surprise me if it was a sign of things to come.
 
There is more to her hinds which I didn't go into for simplicity, but it's very chicken and egg. They haven't been handled much and she's awkward about picking them up (though rapidly improved as the vet explained very patiently). Her owner has a bad back and finds picking them up hard. Is she funny about having them handled through lack of practice or discomfort? The vet plumped for a combination of the two. But how does a horse that never has to lift its hinds for the farrier (unshod behind) then respond to a 45 second hold for a flexion test? Are the muscles prepared for that? I don't know and I think it more likely the problem leads to the tricky hind legs, rather than the other way round.

I feel really sad to be letting the owner down as she'd se her heart on her coming to me as I was really open to her visiting, etc. time to be selfish though.
 
If you've really got your heart set on her why not offer to work on her and get her used to having her Honda's picked up and get flexion done again in a couple of weeks ? You've given her every chance then.
 
If you explained to the current owner you want her on 6 month trial in light of the failed vetting do you think they would go for that?
 
They have offered a 6 month trial already, which is really tempting... Although I don't know how much bearing a successful 6 months has on her long term prognosis.

As for working with her, her owner and I would both love that, but she's nigh on a hundred miles away and it's an hour and a half drive each way, so it's not much of a goer with fuel prices and time constraints.
 
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