Advice please re non payment for horse

E

Endrete

Well-Known Member
Joined
17 November 2005
Messages
77
Location
Bristol
www.severnviewstud.parks.officelive.com
Another legal question please; regarding sale of horses.

My situation is that I ran a small stud and sold two of my broodmares to a guy who sent his mare to me to be covered. Never had a problem with him paying his livery/stud bills or with payment for two broodmares. Knew him for a good two years before problems started!

In July 2009 I agreed to help out a friend by taking her cob to bring back into work and sell. She was with me until Jan 2010 when the above person took her on a three month trial period with an agreed purchase price of £3000. So had regular updates, all seemed to be going well until end of trial when I phoned to see if he wanted to keep her.

He then advised that he had had to get the vet to her and she would now have an ongoing condition which would require careful management and treatment. I gave him the option to send her back or to have her at half price. So he agreed to the half price and send he would send a cheque.

Funnily enough, despite various letters, emails, phone calls, text messages I have never recd the promised cheque- he must have ‘sent’ it five times by now!!! He now will only communicate with me via text. He won’t pick up the phone.

At the end of December he told me that he had now spent over £2000 on vets fees and treatments and that he had also put her in foal???!!!! He was saying how worried he was about the foal being healthy and normal with all the medication this mare is apparently getting?!

So, have now threatened him with police and solicitor and he just text back to say that he doesn’t want her anymore, come and collect?

So what do I do? He has effectively devalued the mare by putting her in foal. Broodmares aren’t worth anything but she was a nice little riding horse. I don’t even know if there is anything really wrong with her and why would you put a ‘sick’ mare in foal in the first place? Surely your vet would advise you against this?

Im really worried about the mare and her welfare and am really annoyed that I am constantly having to chase him. He did have the option to send her back at the end of the trial period. Her owner certainly doesn’t want an in-foal mare back and neither do I!!
 
Was there a written contract? I'd phone the BHS Helpline or a legal advice helpline you may have with your home or business insurance. He's pulling a fast one is my opinion.
 
This sounds rather complicated and it might be best to talk to a solicitor. Do you have any proof (ideally written agreement) of all these different agreements with the buyer? I suspect he may just say that he had the mare on loan and now wants to give it back and although he sounds like a right timewaster and total &^^% you may have a hard time getting the money out of him. Sorry not to be more positive!
 
Ok so neither of you want the mare back at the moment, but have you the room to take her, if so i would go get asap.
To be honest i hink he is pulling your leg a bit her, either:
A) she is ill and then she is not in foal as no-one in their right mind would risk putting an ill horse in foal especially as the market is not there for them at the moment and it is loads harder to get an ill horse in foal
B) the illness is all made up to get the price down and she is not in foal either
C) The illness is made up and she is in foal so you get lumbered with a foal but after 6 months you get the mare back to her condition she was in and sell and sell the foal as well.
So you end up with maybe 9 months of a her being at the yard but at least you will feel better
 
I'm sure i'm right when I say that legally, the horse belongs to him and he owes you £1500.

He agreed to buy her over a year ago in full knowledge of her condition which was considered by the acceptance of it subject to the purchase price being reduced by half.

If you think he has the means to pay, then run it through the small claims Court. If you think you won't get paid, you might be better going with his suggestion to have the horse back.

Hopefully after that, you'll never deal with him again. He's got some cheek
 
I have all his comments on text message - inc agreement on more than one occasion that he would put the situation down to experience and just pay the money and the cheque was in the post.

Since I last posted he has sent another text with his solicitors details and saying that he would now offer £750 for her as he will keep the other £750 to 'compensate' himself for the vets bills he has paid. Apparently if I dont agree to that then he will pursue us for his vets fees which apparently have now cost him over £3000. She is apparently costing him £150 a month to keep? I assume he is referring to vets bills/medication??
 
I know there is all this client confidentiality and his vet is not at liberty to "talk" to you. But is there any way you can get the vet to give you a detailed report as to its supposed problems. Because it all seems a bit far fetched, that some one would spend 3k in vets bills on a horse that isnt theirs' And they seemingly have no intention in paying for. I think he is just trying tactics to get a perfectly nice/healthy horse cheap.
 
Surely if he had the mare on trial with a view to buy he should of sent her back the minute she was ill ? Or at the very least notified you of the fact he was getting treatment for her and what it entailed. You say you were selling the horse for a friend? So does the horse still belong to her or did you buy off your friend before you sent her to this man. Surely he's not allowed to put the horse in foal when she doesn't belong to him. If he has had her on trial he is responsible for her vet treatment whilst in his care, if he wants to send her back then that's tough. He should have given her back when she first became ill.
 
He agreed to buy the horse for £1500. He wont be the first person to have a large vets bill for a newly purchased horse. The fact that he has not returned the horse to you and he paid the vets bill confirms his intent. Unless he offers to show you the vet's report I'd assume he's trying it on.
You could ask for interest on your money, and/or money to cover his hiring of the animal, after all it was never your intention to give the horse away.

dislaimer; Not a legal opinion just ammunition for a discussion/row.;)
 
It is really good you have all his text messages. Type all these out with the time and date received. Definitely go and see an equestrian lawyer but before you do this, ask for him to send a full vets report and copies of all the invoices as I think he is trying it on. This should also prove whether or not the mare is or isnt in foal. Do not promise anything or agree to anything until all the facts are in front of you and then take legal advice on the best way forward.
So awful that people can treat you this badly. Best of luck x
 
jhoward said:
have you not been to see the mare AND asked what is wrong with her?
Click to expand...

I wish I could have done immediately but I was four/five months pregnant at the time she went and now have a young baby, I am also up to my neck in closing my own business with a rather looney ex-business partner and didnt want to leave my horses unattended in case they werent here when I got back!!! No, I am not joking :-(

Unfortunately he is not just around the corner - more like four hours away!

He did have photos of her on his face book and she looked fine! They have now been removed as I just had a look. I was also in contact with his groom about the horses he bought from me personally and she never said anything about the mare being ill. I asked how she was and the groom would say she is fine, they have been riding her and planning to take her showing etc...!

I dont own her, she still belongs to my friend but I feel very bad as I told my friend that he would be fine to have the mare on trial as I trusted him. Hmmmm.
 
thats understandable, have you asked him what is wrong with her?

id be texting right now and then playing along and asking for his vets details.
 
surely he should have either asked permission or paid for her before putting her in foal?? maybe that's a route to take if you go the legal way.

if she's in foal then he should have to compensate the owner for doing something different. sorry i'm not a legal person but that's the thing that springs to my mind.

maybe he tried to put her in foal, said she was ill to get a reduction on the price and then the mare lost the foal or never actually took to the stallion so he said come get her, possibly tried a few times with no success. because of that he thought there was no value to her if she couldn't get pregnant.
 
Sounds like he is really trying it on. I think you may need a solicitor's letter to scare him into action. Even if he claims that he was only loaning the mare, he doesn't really have a right to demand vet fees and livery off you as he was responsible for her care at the time.
 
Mare's full story; my friend bought her four years ago, in foal as she wanted the foal the mare was carrying. Mare lived out, had and raised lovely foal (my friend still has him). Never a problem, straight forward. I saw her a few times when I went to visit. Mare and foal were weaned and mare had winter off. She was then loaned out but the girl was too novice for her. She came back into work lovely but she is a very forward ride, not a kick along cob and girl didnt get on with her.

So friend rode her occasionally until she decided that mare would be better of with more attention in a one to one home. Hence her coming to me to put back into work properly. I had great fun on her!! Galloped her with my ex race horse and had a real turn of speed and brilliant brakes. She lived out whilst with me - never a problem. Lived out over winter. Got her in one day in Dec and noticed she was losing hair and was a bit scabby. Got vet out who couldnt find mites etc and put it down to the rug I had used to keep her clean in the mud. It had just been washed and he said that some horses could be sensitive to cleaning products.

So changed rug over to an older, dirtier one, used a bit of E45 cream on her and she healed up lovely. No change to her management, same hay and in same field.

Anyway, he came to collect her and I had warned him that she hadnt regrown all her hair as yet. Not bothered as only a bit and he took her. Got pics of his OH riding her within a month and loving her.

Anyway, on the end of trial, phone call apparantly all her hair had fallen out and he had got vet to her who did a blood test and said she was allergic to grass and hay and would need special management. At which point I said send her back then. No no will keep her for reduced money. I am afraid that I took him on trust. But was extremely surprised when a month later saw photo of her on face book in field with other horses, on grass and they all had feed bowls? Not a hair out of place!!
 
Hi Tanya,
I'm more than happy to collect mare and bring her up when I come to collect Faith. Give me a call and we'll make the arrangements. I'm now having a similar problem with some people I sold an ex-broodmare to. They paid half the money for her and have now stopped the cheque they left for the balancing payment. I, like you, was far too trusting and did not anticipate there would be any problem. They are now refusing to return the mare and will not pay the balance. I have spoken to the livery yard owner and am going to see MY horse tomorrow. The Police are not interested and suggest I make a Civil claim as ownership of the horse is in dispute. I am fed up to the back teeth with people who think they can just take something for nothing. Anyway, rant over, ring me and I'll pick her up for you x
 
As stated in previous post i think he is out to get a free horse that is a proven broodmare and riding horse.
Collect as soon as possible, but also check who name the passport is in as you dont want him to then say you have stolen her.
If you have a copy of the text with him stating you can come collect her, send it to your email and keep copy on phone as proof that he has offered the mare back to you as he sounds a sly piece of work
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top