advice please. what would you do? sad news

Maesfen said:
I personally would go for getting her out if you can but if you can't I'd seriously consider putting down for her sake. Yes, it's horrid losing a foal like that (I lost one a fortnight before foaling once, mare unexpectedly died in the field) but better that than watching your mare suffer from pain and fright from not being in full control of her body and reactions plus the added danger of flattening the foal or yourself.

Please be aware that mares foaling very often get down and up many times during labour, not just the once, that's going to put a great deal of strain on her body and heart, far more than a 'normal' foaling would.

It's a hard decision but you must do what is best for your mare; if she wasn't in foal, would you still be carrying on?
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thanks. yes im aware she will get up and down during foaling. she can actually get up and down in her own way. yes it wasnt nice to watch but vet assures me she is not in pain and though distressed at the time she got up and started eating straight away, quite settled.

i would still carry on if she wasnt in foal, this has came on pretty quickly with no obvious reason and ive not tried everything yet. if she was in pain and suffering i would have her put to sleep immediately, in foal or not x
 
Wagtail said:
Can you lay bedding acrros the doorway and outside?

The foal would almost be viable now. I would try to get her out and so long as she is happy in herself I would see how it goes. I know some mares do get up and down when foaling, but they don't tend to do this once the foal has started to actually come out. We were lucky when the mare here foaled as she just walked around then we saw the feet coming out and she lay down and didn't get up until 15 minutes after the foal was born.
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we did lay down rough carpet with bedding over for grip but she just wouldnt come near the door. maybe it was too soon after the scare and she may well come out in a day or two. thank you x
 
3Beasties said:
Have you tried putting loads of bedding down in the doorway and out onto the yard?

As someone else said it might be worth blindfolding her to get her out.

I would imagine taking the stables down around her will only stress he out :(
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thanks. yes did try with bedding down etc. but maybe was too soon after the incident. should have said also that would only need to take down 1 wooden partition. shes luckily not a stressy horse anyway so really dont think it would cause too much stress taking the partition down x
 
Oh gosh what a dilemma. I think, if what you say is the case and she's not in pain and she is able to get up and down on her own then I would probably persevere with the pregnancy but not under the same conditions as at present. I would barn-keep her. Put down loads of straw bedding and give her the run of the whole barn. That way she can still get a bit of exercise and the likelihood of her getting stuck or cast should be lessened. I've just seen the photo, that is a lot of muscle wastage going on there, poor girl.
 
Is it possible that the foal itself is pressing on a nerve, and that it will recover when the foal either moves to be born, or is born???
 
cptrayes said:
Is it possible that the foal itself is pressing on a nerve, and that it will recover when the foal either moves to be born, or is born???
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i have no idea! physio thought this might be the case but vet thinks not. if you compare the pictures from the 9th february to now the problem has come on really quickly. just seems a bit strange to me that she would be fine then get get like this in late pregnancy?

waiting on physio getting back to me and also thinking about a 2nd opinion x
 
Wow you're right a lot of wastage in 20 days, could it be a combination of foal pressing on nerves and foal taking a lot of goodness from your mare in the last few weeks when it is growing rapidly? Is there any reduction in weight/ muscle round her front end/ neck? Could she be moving around a lot less given the weight/ discomfort of the foal?

I'd be having 2nd if not 3rd/ 4th opinions, maybe if you send pictures and description/ video of her struggling to get up to the vet schools you might get some alternative suggestions (I seem to recall the guy in Liverpool often looks at pictures of sacroids for people). It can't do any harm to ask.

I'm pregnant and if you saw me getting out of bed/ off the sofa you'd think there was something wrong with me and my muscles are definitely evaporating.
 
monsterwillow said:
i have no idea! physio thought this might be the case but vet thinks not. if you compare the pictures from the 9th february to now the problem has come on really quickly. just seems a bit strange to me that she would be fine then get get like this in late pregnancy?

waiting on physio getting back to me and also thinking about a 2nd opinion x
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If it is trapped nerves due to the foal being in the position it is in at present, once the foal drops, although that would relieve pressure on any nerves (if this is the problem) but would they 'come alive' again?? I'd honestly don't know, I've never seen this in a pregnant mare before.
 
monsterwillow said:
i dont know about the nerves but i was wondering what with the muscles slackening in late pregnancy if that has made it worse? x
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Well yes that certainly does happen, but not usually at the stage your mare is at. My broodmares tend to start to slacken off just a couple of weeks prior to foaling. You've still got 9 weeks left till her estimated due date, and 6 weeks to wait until the foal is viable. Maybe once the foal drops things could look brighter. I really don't know though sorry as I've never seen this before in pregnancy. I wonder if it might be worth your while contacting a reputable reproduction vet; they may have seen this before in other mares?
 
Not the same thing but my mare degloved her hock and was touch and go whilst in foal. Huge putrid 'non healing'

The last month was the worst of my life. The foal put strain on the leg, the wound let in the bacteria, the leg blew from stifle to coronet and the mare started p****ing milk due to infected placenta (from the open wound). Worse still her pain was tangable. It nearly killed us both. Not sure I'd make the same decision again BUT

Foaling was game changing. It was like flicking a switch. She needed help to foal from a vet but I swear you could almost see the wound healing. A year on even my vet (who thought we would lose her) says its the most startling change in a horse he's ever seen - including temprement. Whilst this won't be the case with your girl unfortunately, I'd just have a bit of hope - the power of motherhood may at least get her through six months which will be the happiest of her life. The very best of luck and my heart goes out to you. There are some tough times ahead but hopefully rewarding too.
 
Just wondering, could the leg problem be due to the pregnancy? I know in humans the baby lying in certain ways can cause havoc with the pelvis and lower back. I had terrible problems at the end. Could hardly walk with my second big baby. I am left with SI problems but they are far better since giving birth. If it IS due to the foal, then there is a chance the mare may improve after she gives birth.
 
What an awful dilemma. I'd be getting as many vets' opinions as possible too. Foaling could change everthing for the better or be disastrous but it sounds as though you are prepared for the worst. I've known of a case where both mare and foal were lost in circumstances like this (different leg problem but same effect) but you know the mare best and what she can cope with. The mare in the case I know of was an old mare having her last foal.
Take your time to decide if she's not in pain and, as others have said, see if you can find a specialist maternity vet who may have seen something similar before. Good luck to you and your mare.
 
Can't offer any advice, as I haven't been pregnant OR bred mares, but fingers crossed that this is due to the pregnancy and will improve after foaling or even when she slackens off. Best of luck. This isn't an easy one. :(
 
I am so very sorry to read this, it really brought me to tears, what a truly horrid situation you are in. This is really not an area that I have any experience in but just wanted to pass on my thoughts and prayers for your mare and foal, and of course you.
 
Apart from muscle wastage she looks a bit thin for a mare in foal, no criticism but if she is then you need to up her feed, which could also help with building up the fat at least, speak to a nutritionist, i can see ribs in the last pic. Good luck anyway, she looks really sweet.
 
putasocinit said:
Apart from muscle wastage she looks a bit thin for a mare in foal, no criticism but if she is then you need to up her feed, which could also help with building up the fat at least, speak to a nutritionist, i can see ribs in the last pic. Good luck anyway, she looks really sweet.
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shes really not thin at all! that whole side of her looks poor because of the way she is having to hold herself. it is like looking at 2 different horses from each side.
 
I wouldnt say she is thin, in the last stages of pregnancy the foal drains the mare of nutrients. You dont want an overweight mare because of the difficulties.

What i would be concerned is thats a lot of muscle wasteage very quickly. Last time i saw muscle wastage like that was with a pelvic fracture. I would be wanitng scans etc as foaling could be disasterous
 
thanks everyone for your suggestions, advice and good wishes. i will of course try my hardest to make sure she is as comfortable and happy as possible given the situation.

have decided we are going to dismantle the stable partition which will then give her a much bigger area. just back from seeing her and she is quite happy for now. she has been lying down and obviously gotten up again herself and is eating and drinking and baby is bouncing about.

physio has been in touch and says for now try heat therapy and vigorous massage until she can get out and going to phone a couple of vets tomorrow for more advice xx
 
Delicious_D said:
I wouldnt say she is thin, in the last stages of pregnancy the foal drains the mare of nutrients. You dont want an overweight mare because of the difficulties.

What i would be concerned is thats a lot of muscle wasteage very quickly. Last time i saw muscle wastage like that was with a pelvic fracture. I would be wanitng scans etc as foaling could be disasterous
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the muscle wastage actually started in october last year. it has come on like this in the last few weeks. 1st thing vet did was check symmetry of her pelvis etc. obviously cant tell for sure with scans/xrays etc but he seemed pretty sure if was nerve damage.

cant travel her to get scans etc done anyway, way too dangerous
 
Vets have mobile scanners/x-rays. It may be worth doing just to rule out any breakages.

We had a big mare who when pregnant with what turned out to be an extremely leggy big foal suddenly, started having issues with her off-hind. It presented itself like stringhalt, vet said that he thought it was caused by the foal but even after foaling and infact a year and a half on she's still not right.

Best of luck with your mare. Big barn with very deep straw bed would be best I think.
 
Only you will know if she is coping or if you have to make the decision.

I would be up for her living out and letting her foal.
On grass and sand etc, she is less likely to slips.

Can you have more tests to confirm what's wrong and see if there is anything they can do?
 
Horrible situation I have no advice other than if you do end up with an orphan foal keep it on the milk for as long as you can until normal weaning age I was advised by baileys to wean at 3 months I weaned at 4 but ever since my now rising two year old still obsesses over suckeling its horrible but I didn't know better and did as I was told
Other than that I just wish you some luck
A bit off subject but hey ho x
 
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