Advice please!

Randonneuse

Randonneuse

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Hi Everyone,

First Winter in the UK for my Haflinger x Anglo Arab, 13.2hh, 16 year old gelding...
Lives out 24/7, no rug on,(never had one in France as most horses there don't have any!) natural shelter, ad lib hay.
Barefoot trimmer came this morning and confirmed what I thought...he is putting on (too much) weight!
What would you do please?
I ride him 4 times a week at the moment (about 2hours/2hours30 each time-hacking only-).
I would prefer him not to have ad lib hay anymore but he is with 2 mares (they are out during the day, in at night) and the owners have requested the farmer for ad lib hay so I can't restrict mine.
Very annoying as not sure what to do!
He doesn't have anything else than hay but I'm worried about him if he puts on weight all winter as will be worse in Spring :-(

Thanks :-)
 
i would get a weigh tape = work out his weight calculate if he is overweight or ideal - if he is ideal i would carry on and perhaps stick a 20 min lunge session into the week.
If he is overweight I would do more riding and more lunging with him - 20 mins good lunge work is equal (so they say) to an hours ridden work xx
 
Nigsha said:
:eek: how do those horses survive without rugs? :eek: they must all die. Agree with more exercise but if you cant do that what about a muzzle for limited periods?
Click to expand...

Lots of horses live out without rugs? :confused::)

..Im in a sort of simular situation with my mare, she is rather porky and doesnt even have that much to eat, and not even much grass in her field, but she just never seems to drop weight!
 
Hi, you say these horses get adlib hay in the day, whats he out with at night if hes on his own could you limit the amount he gets at night so he more or less gets his intake of hay through the day with the others.
 
As above - restrict night forage or make it very very poor - oat straw or similar, if you are worried about a lack of fibre. In the spring you could try a muzzle when the grass comes through. I would try and continue without a rug so he burns off calories keeping warm. But I own a fat native and cannot bare to see her without a rug as she is grey and looks so uncared for:rolleyes:
 
yikes... i'm in same boat!!

my 6 polo ponies, who have autumn and winter off work, shoeless and rugless grazing in 30 acres, but who work solidly playing polo and kept at slim fighting weight from march thru to august are all on diets before they start walk work in march! they are all TB blood and were imported from new zealand, argentina, chile and ireland are out over winter 24/7 with no rugs (1st yr done it - horses much preferred it, and i honestly believe stayed warmer) with just natural shelter (hedges and trees) and ad-lib hay .. must admit been feeding them all small meals daily of alpha-a, baileys high fibre 'at rest' mix, speedibeat, garlic, vits and minerals. . . but literally only handful of each with a carrot, mainly to keep pecking order (me as boss) luckily i can feed them all in field no bother (well occasional high jinx from the 6yr old), they all line up, in pecking order and wait to be given a bucket. also find this stops them turning completely feral and gives me chance to do daily once over. we are quite rural and they are not taken out of huge field (like i said i let them run free in all our 30 acres) Aug to March . . however 3 wks ago i was asked by couple on public footpath, who walk it regularly, when my horses were going to foal as '''they are huge, they must be ready to drop, and the ginger ones looks like its started nesting in the hay''' ... (3 of them are geldings - including the ginger 'nesting' one ) so asked a couple of horsey pals to take a look. and yes. they are obese. and it isnt their long fur. its fat. i was killing them with kindness. so feed has been weaned off and all but stopped, now they get a large handful of happy-hoof. .. and a carrot.... and they are now on last yrs hay and cut field down to 10 acres. walking work starts mid march so until then, going to try to 'slim' them down by not so much hay (they have two huge round bales every week) and letting them graze the crappy grass. short of chasing them round in my dune buggy once a day i dont know what else to do.

my idea of letting them get a bit porky to get thru winter has backfired on me!!!
 
Hi,

Thanks all for your replies.

Dancing Queen, weight tape is not accurate for him as it doesn't take into account, height, what type of pony he is etc...
I have been using one for around a month now but it always says 425kg and I'm sure even if he is overweight he is a lot less than that but can see he's put on weight on other part than the parts you use the weight tape on (girth parts).
I can't lunge him as there is no school at the farm where he is kept and the field are too slippy with mud to do so.
I can't do more riding as I work full time but when the days go longer I'll be able to go back to riding in the evening after work so will ride him 6 or 7 times a week.

Nigsha no they all live happy and old in France! ;-) I tried the grass muzzle in the Summer lots of times only to find it on the ground few hours later...even tried to put it underneath a headcollar, to find the grass muzzle on the ground no long afterward with STILL the headcollar on.

Zoelouisem the farmer puts a load of hay every other day in a cow hay thing (not sure about the name!) and so impossible to restrict it at night :-(

And all the other people who answered I think I replied in this message :-)

I am going to see the farmer tomorrow to talk to him about this ad lib hay thing and see if he has an idea of what to do.
One person has 2 gelding there in an other field and even though hers are in at night they don't get ad lib hay during the day. I will try and see her at the weekend (she is new so don't have her number yet) and see if mine could go with hers.
Then I could only put hay in the evening and everything would be sorted!
There is a little bit of grass in the field but wouldn't be enough for him to live on it!

Any more advice welcome please :-)
 
Even if not accurate, the weigh tape is useful for seeing how much they gain/lose weight. I do this with my 2.

Can you section off the hay at night? Even though it's in the field - pony can't get it?

By the sounds of it, this other field with the two geldings would be best, if you can get in with them.
 
Thanks Mishaspey.

I don't think I could section off the hay at night as it is in the middle of the field and the farmer moves it about once a week for the field not to get muddy in one place.
I use the weight tape as you do to see how much weight he gains/loses.
I hope the lady with the 2 geldings will agree with putting mine with her horses but won't know before the weekend.
Last Summer I made a little "Paddock Paradise" in part of a field as the farmer was ok with it (and Bilto stayed quite slim all Summer) but couldn't do it anymore in Winter as would have ruined the field!

Thanks again :-)
 
Have you tried a different type of grazing muzzle? It can make a big difference. I've often found the 'comfort' bucket types are easily lost compared to non-comfort bucket types. There's also various greenguard styles. If he's putting on weight in winter you will probably need something to help come spring! Might be worth finding one now.

I hate to break it to you but I don't think your weightape will be that far off. Our 13hh fell pony is 430kg and thats taken by a weigh scale. She does need to loose a bit of weight, but she's currently only 'fat', not obese.

Good on you for being blanketless! That's a good start. Cut out any hard feed; if you're feeding a supplement of some kind then get some low cal chaff (topspec top chop lite seems to be the best around, but dengie hi-fi lite is also good) and mix with just a couple of handfuls.

Up the riding if you can, it's not always possible. Remember a long walk can often burn more calories than a short gallop!

If you do manage to get the hay situation sorted, which would probably be the biggest help, he should only be getting 1.5% of his bodyweight every 24 hours which includes the grass in the field and his feed. If you manage to do this and he's still not losing weight after a couple of months on this regime, then research has shown you can reduce this to 1% if absolutely necessary.

Final tip would be to take a weekly photograph of him. Weight change can be very difficult to see if you're seeing him every day. A visual record of his weight changes is a great tool to illustrate if its working and to keep your own spirits up!
 
We have a haffie x arab and she is the same (hadn't heard of that cross breed till we got her its briliant). Virtually have to feed her fresh air and she will put on weight lol. Only thing we can do is increase the work load including lunging. Mind you I am not as brave as you as she still has a rug on but her weight this year has stayed virtually the same so we must be doing somthing right.

Liz
 
Thanks MissSbird,

He doesn't have any hard feed and only has Himalayan salt as supplement.
I used a comfort grass muzzle I bought (I think) from Equestrian Clearance in May last year (when he arrived in the UK)
I wish we had a weight scale!
I can't up the riding at the moment as I work full time (I'm a nanny with weird hours so managed to ride on Mondays and Fridays morning)
I mostly walk him on Mondays and Fridays (with a bit of trot and canter) for about 2 and a half hours and Saturday and Sunday I trot mostly (+ bit of walk and canter) as my boyfriend comes running with me for around 1hour 30/2hours.
I do take pictures of him most weeks and can see how much he's put on weight!
I hope I can get the hay thing sorted :-)

Smudge99, any picture of your mare?

To give you an idea:

This is last July:

DSCF0195.jpg


This is beginning of November:

DSCF0392.jpg


Beginning of December:

DSCF0429.jpg


End of December:

DSCF0462.jpg
 
NSLN - Your horse is lovely and what a lovely bright colour he is.

Here are a few pics of our pony, her weight does go up and down but the min we can see it going back on she is worked harder. We have tried most of the grazing muzzles on her and she too gets them off so work it has to be and as my 15 yr old is rather active they make a good pair.

This is in April last year and she had started to put a bit on again with the grass coming through
susan_062.jpg


A few of her over the summer as the weight came back down again.

susanandjess5-1.jpg

susanandjess1-1.jpg
 
Not sure how well this will go down, but this is what I was advised by my BF trimmer, when we used one, with regards to my 'live on fresh air pony', I didn't like the thought of it but it may be worth a thought! She suggested we clipped him down the front of his throat to his chest to make him have to work even harder to keep warm. I have been thinking about it recently as said pony seems to be banging weight on despite the cold and I cannot limit his hay any further because of his paddock companions.
 
Thank you Smudge99,

Lovely pictures :-)
Grrr the fact they take their grass muzzle off must be in their weird crossed breeding! Clever things they are though...who would like to wear one!? ;-)
I've never done anything else than hacking with him (he is 16 and I've had him since he was 4...).
Would love to learn a bit of dressage and do a bit of jumping as he's never done any...never had the chance of being somewhere with a school :-(
He is good at jumping fallen trees though and goes for it!
I had few jumping and dressage lessons when I was about 10 (I'm 25 now) but that was before having Bilto and I hated it!!! (instructor was horrible so I gave up and as it was the only riding school around where I used to live, never had the opportunity of learning more)
There is a school you can hire about 20minutes hack away, I'll go and see how much it would be for an hour and also see how much it would be for the yard owner/instructor there to give lesson! (don't have a lot of spare cash but will ask anyway!)
Not sure they would accept to give lesson to a barefoot and bitless bridle pony as it is quite a posh yard! :-)

How could I work him harder while hacking?
 
hch4971 said:
Not sure how well this will go down, but this is what I was advised by my BF trimmer, when we used one, with regards to my 'live on fresh air pony', I didn't like the thought of it but it may be worth a thought! She suggested we clipped him down the front of his throat to his chest to make him have to work even harder to keep warm. I have been thinking about it recently as said pony seems to be banging weight on despite the cold and I cannot limit his hay any further because of his paddock companions.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure about this :-) But if anyone have done it before please give me your opinion it would be much appreciated!
I just wouldn't like him to get ill during a heavy rain because of the fact of being clipped.
 
Noel Sous La Neige said:
I'm not sure about this :-) But if anyone have done it before please give me your opinion it would be much appreciated!
I just wouldn't like him to get ill during a heavy rain because of the fact of being clipped.
Click to expand...

I know exactly what you mean, I was worried he would get too cold and just didn't like the thought of it so I would be interested to know if anyone else has tried it too (and if it does work or if it will just make them uncomfortably cold)
 
Hi, I did this clip (chest and throat) on my 10 yr old 14.2 Connemara X at the end of Oct and she has lived out all winter rug-less with no ill effects, certainly hasn't lost condition; she is still protected from the worst of the weather by the thick winter coat on her neck and back (and we're in the Scottish Highlands!). Am thinking of doing the same just now with my 14.2 cob (who is like a woolly bear in winter!) as will be bringing him back into (light) work soon and he could do with losing a bit of weight before the spring.
I have 3 living in the field together and this winter they are just getting 3 big haynets each per day due to running out of hay when fed adlib last winter!
Also, could you bring your horse in some of the time, with small haynet (small holes), to stop him stuffing himself constantly? ;)
 
Aeg123, unfortunately I can't put him in the stable with haynets as he has never been used to be in and always try to break it down (literally) and he would hurt himself at keeping trying to get out so too dangerous!
Pain in the b.. he is, will send him back to my mum in France!!! ;-)
I'll think about the clipping thing and ask for more advice to my barefoot trimmer and see what she says.
Thanks a lot :-)
 
leonh said:
yikes... i'm in same boat!!

my 6 polo ponies, who have autumn and winter off work, shoeless and rugless grazing in 30 acres, but who work solidly playing polo and kept at slim fighting weight from march thru to august are all on diets before they start walk work in march! they are all TB blood and were imported from new zealand, argentina, chile and ireland are out over winter 24/7 with no rugs (1st yr done it - horses much preferred it, and i honestly believe stayed warmer) with just natural shelter (hedges and trees) and ad-lib hay .. must admit been feeding them all small meals daily of alpha-a, baileys high fibre 'at rest' mix, speedibeat, garlic, vits and minerals. . . but literally only handful of each with a carrot, mainly to keep pecking order (me as boss) luckily i can feed them all in field no bother (well occasional high jinx from the 6yr old), they all line up, in pecking order and wait to be given a bucket. also find this stops them turning completely feral and gives me chance to do daily once over. we are quite rural and they are not taken out of huge field (like i said i let them run free in all our 30 acres) Aug to March . . however 3 wks ago i was asked by couple on public footpath, who walk it regularly, when my horses were going to foal as '''they are huge, they must be ready to drop, and the ginger ones looks like its started nesting in the hay''' ... (3 of them are geldings - including the ginger 'nesting' one ) so asked a couple of horsey pals to take a look. and yes. they are obese. and it isnt their long fur. its fat. i was killing them with kindness. so feed has been weaned off and all but stopped, now they get a large handful of happy-hoof. .. and a carrot.... and they are now on last yrs hay and cut field down to 10 acres. walking work starts mid march so until then, going to try to 'slim' them down by not so much hay (they have two huge round bales every week) and letting them graze the crappy grass. short of chasing them round in my dune buggy once a day i dont know what else to do.

my idea of letting them get a bit porky to get thru winter has backfired on me!!!
Click to expand...
hey leonh,

a fellow polo person!! its always the way when they go out they get v fat lol! better that than thin i guess! Roll on 1st march there will be a mass of lorries everywhere bringing thousands of feral polo ponies in for the summer lol! where abouts are u based in the south?
 
this is the moment to act to avoid laminitis you only get one chance with this terrible disease, to avoid it forever by not letting it start.
i would put him indoors for 12 hours, say 7 till 7 bring him in at 7 give hand full of hay, feed small feed of hay at 8 pm, then more at 10 pm, then make a limited grazing paddock of electric fencing, let him graze 1 hour in the morning, then put in paddock , lunchtime small feed of hay, 4 -5 pm let him graze with others, up his work acording to fitness, but minimum of 3 lunge sessions per week including cantering, ride as much as possible, long slow hacks are good for fitness, its not easy to lose weight but if you start now you can control it, its only 8 -10 weeks till the start of the grazing season.
 
Tristar,

I work full time and the farm where he is kept is 15 minutes drive away so wouldn't be able to do what you are suggesting unfortunately.
+ as said in a previous post it is impossible for me to have him in a stable as he would kill himself trying to break it down as he never has been used to be stabled (he only had field shelter in France since he was little)...I think he is probably claustrophobic ;-)
 
hch4971 said:
Not sure how well this will go down, but this is what I was advised by my BF trimmer, when we used one, with regards to my 'live on fresh air pony', I didn't like the thought of it but it may be worth a thought! She suggested we clipped him down the front of his throat to his chest to make him have to work even harder to keep warm. I have been thinking about it recently as said pony seems to be banging weight on despite the cold and I cannot limit his hay any further because of his paddock companions.
Click to expand...

Exactly what I do with my native each winter, works really well, also being brutal with resticting all forage. He gets the muzzles off to but I just put it back on again. I am JOKING about the rugs by the way, love the fact that the french dont use them, supports my view that we use them too much here! ;)
 
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