Advice please?

Sanolly

Sanolly

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my YO rang me last night to say that she was going to look at a horse today. horse in question is an 8 year old stallion that by the sounds of things has been running with mares for the last 2 years at least. Obviously he will be gelded before coming to us (if she gets him), but there are two mares on the yard and my gelding - who is field boss. One of the mares will be going soon anyway but I am slightly concerned about the implications for my two - do you think the new boy will be ok with them?
 
If you chuck them alll in together you may as well shoot the lot cos it will be the same result!!! However, with careful introductions (and a wait of at least 8 weeks after gelding) it MAY be ok but I wouldn't bargain on it.
 
Well obviously the new boy would be kept separate to start with! Plan was to turn him out in the school for a month which is opposite the field so that they can get to know each other first (and also keep him out of the mud whilst his wound heals!). Also when introducing him into the herd would you put him in with my gelding for a week or so and then add the mares?

Should probably add at this point that I have handled and worked with various stallions and colts, an I am confident around them. It's how gelding him at 8 will affect his behaviour that I am not too sure about, also the fact that he has covered mares.
 
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I would be a little bit concerned - 1 mare, 2 geldings (1 just gelded) = recipe for distaster unless carefully handled.

If introduced gradually it could work, im not the biggest fan of mixed herds at yards.
 
IMO your not going to know until it comes down to it.

My old riding school had a stallion, a scary one lol, none of the helpers were allowed near him. He was about 16hh and a heavy weight cob. we used to sneak into his field and then do a runner when he came flying towards us... very aggressive and just not a nice guy......when he was 10 he was gelded....totally different horse!!!! he was turned out with geldings after about two months and into a mixed herd a month after..... he is such a happy chilled out guy and is being used for the RDA....
As said introduce then gradually and take it from there.
 
Stallions are the natural leaders of the heard and as this one "knows" that he used to be boss he will almost certainly try to lead or dominate your horses as he has been used to doing with others. That said I think it also depends on the temprement of the horse in question. I think VERY gentle introduction is key and take it from there.

Hope I helped a bit :)

Elliot
 
SlideWithPride said:
Stallions are the natural leaders of the heard and as this one "knows" that he used to be boss he will almost certainly try to lead or dominate your horses as he has been used to doing with others.
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On the contrary, stallions are very rarely herd leaders. This status, more often than not, is taken up by an established mare within the herd. It's the lead mare who generally says how things will be. The stallion is the one who does the protecting and keeping others away from "his" herd.

Sanolly, no-one can say how it will work out as we haven't met any of the horses. It entirely depends on the disposition of each horse involved in this "marriage". It could turn out absolutely fine or it could become a nightmare. If you know your herd well then once you meet the other horse you should be able to easily grasp where everyone will fit in with this small herd.

I like mixed herds. I don't like small herds. There's often more trouble in a mis-matched small herd than there ever is in a well matched large herd.

I think the most important thing is to have alternative accommodation for the new horse if things don't work out as well as you hope.
 
Thanks guys.
As I said, my gelding is currently field boss, however he is quite laid back and would probably happily give up leadership. My mare - the one who will be staying - keeps herself to herself and is bottom in the pecking order. The other mare can be a little bolshy but being turned out with Olly has helped matters somewhat. She is the mare that will possibly go.
The only problem I can foresee is that my two have been turned out together for a couple of years now, so he might be protective over her?
 
Update from YO. She went to see "Hercules", apparently he is around 14hh big chunky cob. Stabled for the last 6 months, in between 2 mares (and just flimsy plywood between 'stables'), one of which was in season and he was pretty much non reactive. Also there was another stallion a couple of boxes down which he didn't react to either. I am thinking that this means that he should be ok after gelding with my mare and gelding?
 
Spring Feather said:
On the contrary, stallions are very rarely herd leaders. This status, more often than not, is taken up by an established mare within the herd. It's the lead mare who generally says how things will be. The stallion is the one who does the protecting and keeping others away from "his" herd.

Sanolly, no-one can say how it will work out as we haven't met any of the horses. It entirely depends on the disposition of each horse involved in this "marriage". It could turn out absolutely fine or it could become a nightmare. If you know your herd well then once you meet the other horse you should be able to easily grasp where everyone will fit in with this small herd.

I like mixed herds. I don't like small herds. There's often more trouble in a mis-matched small herd than there ever is in a well matched large herd.

I think the most important thing is to have alternative accommodation for the new horse if things don't work out as well as you hope.
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My bad. Sorry
 
Sanolly said:
Update from YO. She went to see "Hercules", apparently he is around 14hh big chunky cob. Stabled for the last 6 months, in between 2 mares (and just flimsy plywood between 'stables'), one of which was in season and he was pretty much non reactive. Also there was another stallion a couple of boxes down which he didn't react to either. I am thinking that this means that he should be ok after gelding with my mare and gelding?
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I wouldn't assume anything. He is somewhere he knows - he has a routine and - no doubt - a place in the hierarchy. Is he actually turned OUT with these horses?

When he comes to a NEW place, chances are he WILL try and take top place in the hierarchy (DON'T think of him as a gelding - he is a stallion without balls!!) People think that gelding a stallion will change it - IME, it doesn't - or at least not for many months/sometimes years! The horse LEARNS to behave like a stallion - fuelled by testosterone. When you take away the testosterone, he doesn't know he is no longer a stallion! If he was a quiet well-mannered stallion, then chances are he can learn to be a quiet, well-mannered gelding!

But stallions who are ratbags, almost always REMAIN ratbags after gelding and require a lot of time and firm handling to teach them new behaviour!
 
JG thanks :)
He hasn't been turned out AT ALL :( Having not met the horse, (all my info comes from YO) apparently he is quite biddable. We do have a contingency plan in place incase it all goes to hell and we have to get him off the yard quick, and as previously stated he will be on individual turnout for at least a month, possibly longer to give him a chance to really settle (and get used to being turned out again!). Just wondering if there is anything else we haven't thought of.
 
Spring Feather said:
On the contrary, stallions are very rarely herd leaders. This status, more often than not, is taken up by an established mare within the herd. It's the lead mare who generally says how things will be. The stallion is the one who does the protecting and keeping others away from "his" herd.

Sanolly, no-one can say how it will work out as we haven't met any of the horses. It entirely depends on the disposition of each horse involved in this "marriage". It could turn out absolutely fine or it could become a nightmare. If you know your herd well then once you meet the other horse you should be able to easily grasp where everyone will fit in with this small herd.

I like mixed herds. I don't like small herds. There's often more trouble in a mis-matched small herd than there ever is in a well matched large herd.

I think the most important thing is to have alternative accommodation for the new horse if things don't work out as well as you hope.
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Hear! Hear!

Except that I think small herds can work fine, provided there is a clear leader and everyone accepts that fact. Introducing a new horse in a small herd has more impact than if that same new horse was introduced in a big herd... because in a big herd that individual has more chance of being "drowned" and absorbed within the existing hierarchy.

Anyway, I agree with Janet, the fact that this new horse is/was a stallion is not an issue. His temperament and how easily he slots in the existing herd hierarchy will be the deciding factors (wherever he slots in doesn't matter as long as everyone else accepts it - even if he becomes the new leader).

I have always had small mixed herds with occasional changes as horses have come/gone or I have had to switch things around for any reasons (ie weaning foals...). The only problems I have ever had were when no clear leader emerged... then horses carried on squabbling forever (best recipe for injury!!!). I have a great alpha mare, who will always be top of the pile AND will sort out any differences between the others if they can't decide for themselves. Sound leadership in a small herd is the most important thing.

My advice is keep him separate but in touching/smelling distance of the others (mind if you have electric fencing, stallions have a habit of striking out with front leg and can pull fencing down!!!), then introduce the others one at a time, starting with the horse at the top of the hierarchy of your existing herd, then working your way down.

Good luck & keep us posted x
 
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