Advice re backing

Katd66

Katd66

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I am now starting to back my youngster. He is 3.5yo and is well handled and fairly laid back.

Over the last 2 months I have slowly started backing him. I have been doing all the groundwork and for the last week I have had an experienced rider help me.

He has been (lightly) lunged. Laid on, sat on and walked in hand with rider on for about 6 sessions - all without batting an eye lid.

Today we lunged, laid on, then sat on and then led him round with rider on board. Perfect.

I thought the next step would be to start walking with rider on the lunge, so as I walked away slowly and the rider guided him out, he had a big strop and bucked her off. :(

I made sure she was ok, and then got him lunging again, then she sat back on and we walked around in hand again so we finished on a good note.

What can I do to help with this next step - have I missed something out? He has always been a bit clingy with me - so would someone different on the ground help? I have backed many horses in the past but not for a while and have not really got stuck at this point before. :confused:
 
Between you and the rider you have to get him going forward. Once they are going forwards it's more difficult for him to think about bucking as he'll be concentrating on what he's doing. I've seen it happen too many times when a horse being backed isn't going forward enough and then inevitably the rider ends up on the deck. So I would say a lot of voice encouragement, legs and back it up with the lunge whip if needs be.
 
Aces_High said:
Between you and the rider you have to get him going forward. Once they are going forwards it's more difficult for him to think about bucking as he'll be concentrating on what he's doing. I've seen it happen too many times when a horse being backed isn't going forward enough and then inevitably the rider ends up on the deck. So I would say a lot of voice encouragement, legs and back it up with the lunge whip if needs be.
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I completely agree this is where I need to get to - its getting him back out to the circle without im having a strop that we are struggling. It is worth getting him straight into trot and going forwards? Or do I get a third person to lead him round while I stand in the middle? I think once we get past not being led with a rider we will be ok again as he picks things up really quickly.
 
Katd66 said:
I completely agree this is where I need to get to - its getting him back out to the circle without im having a strop that we are struggling. It is worth getting him straight into trot and going forwards? Or do I get a third person to lead him round while I stand in the middle? I think once we get past not being led with a rider we will be ok again as he picks things up really quickly.
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I am assuming that he lunges well without a pilot on board? The rider has to be capable enough to steer him - has he been long reined and is fine going left and right and doing figures of 8's, serpentines, going around lanes/paddocks etc. I always have mine doing heaps of changes of rein so they are completely used to being told where to go by steering. I wouldn't have a third person personally as I wouldn't deem it as being terribly safe. Sometimes with youngsters you have to over exaggerate the aids and position etc goes out of the window as you need to be encouraging/teaching the horse.
 
I would make sure your rider isnt trying to give him any aids at this stage as this is likely to confuse him. The instructions should be coming from the lunger until the horse is completely relaxed. Once this has been achieved the rider can start coordinating her aids with the lunger's. Hopefully you are able to sent the horse out on the lunge without the assistance of the rider, if not then go back to lunging without rider.
 
I think, as someone else has said, it is all in sending the horse forward, at the expense of looking pretty or correct, and the person on the ground should be doing this initially. I also like a sturdy neckstrap and feet home in the stirrups, this can give extra purchase at times of trouble.
 
You say you've been doing 'all the groundwork', what exactly have you done?

Firstly have you lunged fully tacked up with stirrups flapping and just let him express himself?

Then I do a lot of long reining on a circle (lunging with two lines), lots of changes of direction etc, this is essentially teaching them to be ridden from the ground, you can then progress to going behind them and doing school movements etc. I would do lots of this.

Does he stand next to a mounting block? Teach him to do this and stand totally still always, then you can start leaning over/messing about with offside stirrup/saddle flap etc, generally bouncing around and getting him used to seeing someone on both sides at once and above him.

In my opinion if you get on and they explode you're doing something wrong.
 
I'd take a slightly different tack, agree forward is v important for babies but I wouldn't go about it in quite the same way.
It could be that on smaller circles with you leading he didn't get a chance to view rider out of right hand side eye and out on his own he caught sight of her.
Could be that he needs more prep towards moving freely with weight, go back to laid over or leading and do loads and loads of shopping work, poles, backing up etc so he's moving super softly.
Could be he's too insecure to step out on his own, try short reining from the wither if he has shown no tendency to kick. Practice gently sending him out onto a mini lunge where he walks on his own circuit but not far from you, better he stops when worried then explodes.
Your right, you have missed something, maybe something tiny and subtle that doesn't take long to fix, but it's way better to iron it out thoroughly and properly then hope u can ride it out without making things worse. When u r getting it right, it should look easy, but agree neck strap and heels home in case!!
 
OP this is not meant to be condesending I promise but I am a little bit worred for all your saftey.
The most experienced person should actually be on the floor. The rider is little more than a dummy at this stage.
I back and break all my horses on myself and for other people and never have a 2 nd person for reasons of confusement but thats just my personal choice.
The horse is clearly not prepared if it bucks enough to unseat a good rider and I am thinking it must be a big buck to unseat a rider whom is experienced. Like turning itself inside out. Otherwise the rider should have done absolutely everything not to come off as this is how horses are ruined before they have started.
Maybe the experienced rider should do more grounwork then backing. If you are experienced it is not difficult or unsafe just time consuming.
If bucking happens again under same circumstances then would send away for backing as 2 times would be near enough for a habit.
Take care and stay safe.
 
Have you long reined him at all? (couldn't see any reference to it in your original post)

Until they long rein, walking and trotting away from you, working off your voice and learning what the bit means, they are in no way ready to be ridden.

I always get them lunging on two reins, then get them walking round the school, lots of turns and circles, serpentines etc. Then I get them out round the farm so they see more of the world than the fences of the school, again, walking out comfortably in front of me.

When you long rein, you mimic the position of the rider behind the horse's head, so that getting on and riding forward is an easy step. You have already taught the horse about leg aids from the ground, so the only new thing for the horse to learn is the rider on board.

The horse should only be learning one thing at a time - steering, a response to the leg and moving forward should not be taught all at once!
 
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