advice re correct use of dutch gag

[Firehorse]

my pony came with a dutch gag. when i test rode him they had it on the snaffle ring and all was fine,. they used it on the first ring for jumping and comps as he can get excitable and is in general very fwd going.

i put it on the first ring while we were getting used to each
other. he will sometimes lean on my hands, but i dont find him particularly strong. he's only skinny and ickle and i had been riding a huge strong cob before! anyhow, one thing i've noticed is that when i use the reins when he wants to keep going, he will stick his head up like a giraffe, he has a martingale on too. he gets v excited when he wants to canter, and will do small rears if i hold him back. although, i can control him and make him walk and we can always stop from flat out gallops too.

my question is, having read that 2 reins should be used with this gag, and the fact it does seem to make his head come up quite high, should i use roundings or maybe try him on the snaffle ring? i am a tad reluctant to do that, as i am a whimpy rider at times, and wouldnt want to loose control and undo the hard work i've put in teaching him to walk our canter routes.

 

[KatB]

3 ring gags will make them put their head up. I'm not a fan of them, especially when combined with a martingale as its completely contradictory, but all too commonly used

I would try a universal or Wilkie snaffle as will be a littlebits tronger than a snaffle, but doesnt have the same "giraffing" effect

 

[Shipley]

a gag is designed to lft the head, i ride out hacking in one and have two reins so I ride on the snaffle and only use the gag part if needed. That might be an idea

 

[ester]

If he is lifting his head I would consider changing the bit as the action of the gag bit is generally (I say generally as mine seems to be an exception to the rule) is to lift the head.

I have also known dutch gags to appear to be the cause of several rears on different horses/ponies.

 

[Firehorse]

TBH 2 reins would freak me out! i like things to be as straight fwd as poss! when i first got to know him, i did think it a bit odd to hve a gag and martingale. i tried without the martingale, but had v little control over his excitement! its like he knew the minute it was off, he could take the p*ss. i'm no expert and hve gone along with what he came with, but the more i think about it, the more my head says maybe try something else, but what??!!

 

[jhoward]

I actually like the gags, and find a lot of horse that lean will lighten up in them, honestly i would try having a play at home in normal tyoe snaffles then find what mouth peice actually suits him as this may be half your problems.

if i honestly need more brakes when im out then i tend to use a slotted kimblewick on the lower setting. bit old fashioned and you dont see them use muched, what i really hate is any type of bit that is used to achieve a false out line.

the hanging cheeks/wilkies do offer a very small amount of poll pressure but not a lot, again i think id go back to the type of mouth piece rather than the actual bit.

 

[Firehorse]

ok, so what i'm thinking now is, my pony is in a bit to raise his head, but he doesnt put his head down anyway! only to toss it a little when he wants to get home faster. i need something with good brakes, but not of gag type...........i looked at kimblewicks on a website the other day and wondered about them. he was in a pelham at one point with previous owners as i have a pic of him in one at a show......but again, we're back to 1,2 reins or roundings. hmmmm.

 

[jhoward]

ok question 1.. how old is said pony.

question 2. do you have a school/field to ride in?

3.. get his back checked. as horses that go in the sort of frame that u discribe will of spent years hollowing, which will of caused muscle issues,

4, start to do carrot stretches to loosen him up.

oh and 5... does he have a horrible bulgie muscel under his neck?

 

[Firehorse]

he is 13. i hve a paddock to ride in. can get back checked. he's not permanently got his head up, its only when bit pressure is applied. no bulgie muscle.......

 

[Firehorse]

forgot to add, he wears a flash, the one day it wasnt done up to the usual hole, he got v strong and wudnt stop cantering round the paddock with my son!

 

[emma69]

A correctly fitted running martingale with a gag isn't that odd. The gag will elevate the head, but the martingale will only come into effect when the head is much higer up (I refer to them as the anti-broken nose bit of kit).

 

[somethingorother]

A dutch gag has a pretty different action to a traditional gag. I would really practice with 2 reins, does anyone have a nice well behaved pony you could practice on, or if you keep things calm with yours could you not practice? It's a useful thing to know anyway and that way you can either use the top ring when he's being good and the next ring down if required. It's very easy to pick up once you start.

 

[teddyt]

[ QUOTE ]
A correctly fitted running martingale with a gag isn't that odd. The gag will elevate the head, but the martingale will only come into effect when the head is much higer up (I refer to them as the anti-broken nose bit of kit).

[/ QUOTE ]

It is odd if the bit is what is making the horse raise its head! Think of the horse that is raising its head because of the bit then it gets so far only to be stopped by the martingale! Unfortunately this combination is far too common.

Only about 1% of horses ridden in this bit actually go nicely in it. Thats because only about 1% of riders ever use 2 reins, which is how it was designed to be used. It is NOT supposed to be ridden in with one rein. Sticking the head up and rearing is quite common in this bit, particularly if it is a single jointed one.

OP- if you cant ride in 2 reins i suggest a french link pelham with roundings or french link kimblewick with one rein are possibilities. But you really need to look at your horses mouth conformationand get an experienced instructor/friend to help you. You need to use a new bit for several weeks so the horse gets used to the different action before you can decide if it is suitable or not.

 

[Dteccytiv]

my horse must be the exception to the rule, because i use a french link, dutch gag with two reins. When he wants to continue at speed he tucks his head in his chest and of he goes. i have to try and half halt him, which i can manage for a stride then he just puts his head back down, pulling me forward out of the saddle. Im not sure if he does this to avoid the action of the bit.

 

[shhdally]

After trying various different bit and noseband combinations with my cob for different activities, I tried a happy mouth dutch gag with double reins and a flash. This works wonders for us as 90% of the time he only needs a snaffle but when he's having one of his moments, we need somethin a bit stronger.
Recently at a show, we had to do a lap of honour and he normally gets excited when cantering in a group (ie going sideways and buckin) but he cantered nicely behind everyone.

The only time he ever has one rein on is if someone else is riding him and gets muddled up with 2 reins and as he'll be in the school and he has it on the snaffle.

Don't know if that is any help or I have just waffled. I find it doesn't lift his head up too far as he is very on the forehand anyway (which we are working on)

 

[Firehorse]

hi all, thx for your advice. i spoke to a lady at the bit bank last night and she suggested trying a universal with a lozenge. she suggested my pony is throwing his head up when the single joint rises and digs into his palate, rather than the poll pressure creating it. he'd also become a little devil tryign to put his bridle on recenetly, so i'm convinced he's not happy with this bit. i guess i trusted his previous owners on whats best for him as they'd had him for 2 yrs and are far more experienced than me. but a little trial and error and im sure i'll find the right bit for him. i'm no expert, but instinct tells me the dutch gag is wrong for him. i'll keep u updated. many thx for all the help!