Advice - re setting up a yard!

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jellyshark

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My daughter has always wanted to have her own yard - she has evented up to intermediatte level and wants to have competition liveries/liveries and do some bringing on and selling - something she has experience doing. She has been offered a small yard 5/6 stables areana good hacking etc the yard would be Ideal to get her started however its very difficult as she would need to rent the yard in a hope of getting the business! (she currently has her own horse and one on livery).

Anyone any experience or advice on this as it seems to be a chicken and egg situation she can't get the clients without the yard - can't afford the yard without the clients.
 
Its too small really, if I were her, I would buy a few good looking childs ponies, mature and not spoiled, but which are up to her weight and bring them on to sell in spring, they can share stabling and just need a lot of handling and some schooling. Best if they can be taken to a few outings showing or jumping.
There is always a market for push button jumping types and for kind ponies for a timid child.
If she wants to take on for example, three competion horses she will find it very difficult financially, and she has three owners to train as well!
She could offer breaking livery at so much per week. that means she has the time and the facilities available if she gets a new competition client.
Best also to have some work part time to keep the cash flowing.
 
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And therein lies the dilemma of all those who set up their own business - where do you get the money to do it from?

When I set up my company I used my savings to tide me over and the business repaid me after about 3 months. But I had little/no overheads.

She either needs to earn and save enough to be able to rent a yard and attract clients without needing it full to start with (or in fact ever - I think 80% occupancy is a good place to start from when working out what to charge), or she needs a donation from a benevolent benefactor (I believe most YR setting up yards refer to this as 'The Royal Bank of Parent') ;) or she needs to have people lined up to fill the stables in advance. There's not really a way round this.

If her business plan is really good then the Princes Trust might be able to help with some seed capital - or even the bank with a business loan.
 
She will need to do her sums very very carefully.
My gut feeling is she will never make a living out of 5/6 boxes - she should break even and get a bit of pocket money but she'll likely have to suppliment this with a PT job alongside or teaching etc.
 
If you're going to bankroll her the it might be an idea to buy a few to produce/finish and sell BUT this is quite a risky proposition.

My actual advice, to someone young and keen, is to go to work for the absolute best rider/stable possible. Learn how they do things, get experience (on someone else's nickle), and get known to people in the industry as a hard worker who can get results. If you can afford to fund it, it would be useful for her to take a competitive horse but you can only do what you can do!
 
TarrSteps said:
If you're going to bankroll her the it might be an idea to buy a few to produce/finish and sell BUT this is quite a risky proposition.

My actual advice, to someone young and keen, is to go to work for the absolute best rider/stable possible. Learn how they do things, get experience (on someone else's nickle), and get known to people in the industry as a hard worker who can get results. If you can afford to fund it, it would be useful for her to take a competitive horse but you can only do what you can do!
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Good advice, it's a mistake to start a yard to soon much better work on some good yards learn , get known then start your own yard.
 
I would second this advice. 5/6 boxes are never going to make her any money and if she's young and relatively unknown (sorry I don't mean to be rude about your daughter, just that it's difficult and time consuming to make your name in horses) she may find it tough to attract owners and sponsors.

Why not take a leaf out of Charlotte du Jardin's book and go work for the best professional she can find? She'll get loads of experience, exposure and contacts.
 
Thanks for the advice - she has been working for a well known rider - although working very hard and gaining knowledge she is not really doing what she wants to do! We weren't thinking in terms of making a living from this small yard but that it might give her a start and be a stepping stone to a bigger yard one day!:)
 
If the yard has enough grazing I'd look at getting liveries to fill the stables then buy a couple of unbacked youngsters to bring on and sell that can live out, they could always borrow a stable for a few hours during the day when her horse is out. With so few stables she'll need to be inventive to break even on the cost of renting the stable, plus any bills that need to be paid on top.

It's not uncommon for a new yard to advertise for liveries before it's actually open so she could put up some adverts in local tack shops or ask around people she knows and as long as the yard is priced right there will always be people looking to move.

I say good luck to her, just don't forget to have a back up plan in case it all goes wrong!
 
jellyshark said:
Thanks for the advice - she has been working for a well known rider - although working very hard and gaining knowledge she is not really doing what she wants to do! We weren't thinking in terms of making a living from this small yard but that it might give her a start and be a stepping stone to a bigger yard one day!:)
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In which case I think she needs a really, really good business plan that takes into account as many of the costs as she can identify.

My hunch is that it will be difficult to make any money and may even be a challenge to break even because of the costs of renting the yard. If you have the buildings and land already it would make more financial sense, but the rent, plus taxes, utilities, holiday cover, maintenance and insurance may not make it worth her time.

She also needs to think about how many boxes she takes up with her own horses as they are a cost in these terms. So if she has 5 boxes and is effectively lost for her own horse, that only leaves her 4 to make a profit from. If she has 2 of her own horses to bring on she needs to make a lot of profit on them to justify taking up her time and two stables (this profit will be the most risky as the horses may not develop as she wants them to, they may get sick/go lame, or the market may be depressed and she may need to hang onto them for longer than expected). That leaves her with just 2 liveries which may not be enough income.
 
It will be very tricky - when there are so many advanced / international riders out there , it's difficult to attract paying horses.

The absolute best money spinner in horses is teaching teaching and more teaching, if you can tap into the pony club and riding club markets, and teach small kids starting out, at £20 a time you're easily bringing in an extra £100 a week at least .
 
I agree that depending on the rent 5/6 boxes is pretty marginal. I have looked into this and usually you need about 12 boxes to be viable.

Also do not underestimate the set up costs. depending on the facilities yo may need rubber stable mats, etc.
The small essential things can run into several hundred pounds, tools, rug racks, hooks, buckets, etc,

Then there is is feed, hay, bedding - to get a delivery there is usually a minimum order - it is rare to be given credit terms so you need to be able to pay up front - this can be expensive.

Then other maintenance arena harrows, muck removal.................. it goes on.

I would not say don;t do it but eyes wide open and understand the outgoings!
 
Also, never rely on selling horses to make a living! It's impossible to make a profit , many pro's never make a penny out of bringing on and selling
 
Thanks - lots to think about - we have done a very comprehensive business plan, a worst scenario one and one we think is realistic. She intends to teach as much as possible - one idea is that with a yard people can come to her too! (just about to take her PPT)! Not really expecting her to make a living from this (perhaps enough to run her car and a bit of spending money) more about a starting point thats affordable!!

It is so difficult to get a start without your own place and of course money helps!!! :)
 
If she doesn't have to draw anything from the business then it's probably workable at least short term. Most of her peers will have significant family support so she should be able to keep her prices etc in line.

It sounds like you aren't the type to go into debt over it, either, which is often when things go very, very wrong. We were discussing this morning how many even quite high profile riders are struggling now because they set up when the economy was much more buoyant and now can't produce enough revenue to support their overhead but are too large to be flexible.

As far as getting clients, it's like any other business. I presume she is teaching now, yes? The best is word of mouth, frankly. But you do need to advertise so people know where to find you. Then it's just doing ANY teaching that comes along, like every other aspect of the industry. The biggest thing I find with horse people is they often forget to say WHY someone should hire them and not the person down the road. What do they have to offer that is special or particularly useful to the client. A lot of people try to be all things to all people - and to some extent you have to be, as you can't turn down work - but there are only so many hours in the day so it helps to have a focus.

The general rule is it takes 5 years or so to build a business so I'd plan on that time frame as a "make or break" window. I've found it about right, both from personal experience and observation. By that point she should have some regular supportive clients (and enough of them not to be at the whim of one person) and possibly be looking at expansion.

Good luck. :)
 
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