Advice, suggestions or otherwise please... (bit long, sorry)

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catdragon

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Well, trying to keep this short. In the 6.5 years at my previous yard I didn't have too many issues, if my girl lost a shoe, or a rug got damaged - I'd get a text - a small wound - the same, anything more serious a call...

Moved home not so long ago, so moved my girl -after much searching for - a new yard, I've gone from part to assisted DIY livery (cost at new yard is too much for me to stay part livery:( )

Couple of weeks ago, got to the yard- my new LW turn out rug has a huge "L"shaped tear in it - I'm pretty certain that the puncture hole above said tear is from horses teeth - but no conclusive proof - so put it down to one of those things. A quick text would have been nice to enable me to make some kind of running repairs - but fair enough.

Well tonight - I arrive - my girl was clipped Friday so she's in a 200g T/O - to find another bl**dy great rip complete with mouthful of filling bitten out and another huge bite mark further along - my girl has a corresponding lump under this one - so that's one hell of a nasty bite to raise a lump through a 200g thick rug :(

YM is away - due back at the weekend, I am going to raise this with her then. Once again - no text - my horse cannot have been checked for wounds - she could have been bleeding under it. No pre-warning to enable me to repair it.

She's turned out with another mare who is spirited and I have seen this mare "rounding my girl up" putting her head on her bottom etc etc, so I think its pretty obvious who's the biter is.

For tomorrow I've asked for the LW to be put on top of the 200g - it's got no fill - is a size bigger and should hopefully offer some extra protection as well as weatherproofing ( I have checked it doesn't restrict in any way).

Do I approach the owner of the other mare - is it down to them to pay for my repairs?

Would it be unfair to ask for individual T/O for mine - if she's being bitten hard enough to raise lumps - what else may occur - it's not just the cost and inconvenience of getting rugs repaired- I am now wary of my placid girl getting hurt.

I'm dreading putting on her next rugs - they're all new - and I loathe the thought of my expensive rugs getting trashed by another horse.

What would you do? Sorry it's long, but never been in a situation such as this before.

Thanks for taking time to read.
 
You should have definitely been informed and you should ask/demand individual turn-out for your horse. She is obviously being attacked by the other mare, who could seriously injure her.
Responsible yard managers often keep new horses in individual turn out until the horse settles in as one of the herd. To put her straight in with another obviously agressive horse is not on.
Be forthright about this; the management of your horse should not put it in danger, and make it clear that you expect to be contacted when anything such as you describe happens.
 
I would ask for the turnout situation to be changed, not to avoid rug damage (that happens) but to avoid injury to my horse.
 
Thanks Jaquelin and Bess - she was introduced over the fence with the mare - and in general they get on. But... I am not happy that my mare seems to be bearing the brunt of her high spirits and biting, I worry now she may get kicked.

I desperately don't want to come over as "overprotective mummy", but neither do I want to come down to the yard to these "little surprises".

Will think on how I approach it and try to sort something out - my mares welfare is paramount to me full stop.
 
If there is only two of them in the field then you could ask for repair costs, but personally I'd chalk this up to part of owning a horse and not do so.

Definately ask to be moved fields, either to an individual paddock or a different companion.
 
When I first moved my boy in to a new yard he came in with a few nicks on his bum for a few days. I accepted this as horses live in herds with pecking orders and he needed to be put in his place! However, had he come in with more serious injuries I would have been concerned.

I do not think you can say 100% confidently which horse is doing this. Unless all the other horses are coming in with the same issues, I think it would be unfair to single out the owner and ask them to pay costs. If no other horses are having the same issues, it may not be a bad tempered horse...you never know, yours might be pushing her luck a bit to try be pack leader! (Not suggesting you own a violent loony, just making a point :p)

I would raise concerns with YM and have yours back in connecting field to give them more time to become acquainted. Maybe stable them next to each other if they come in at all? But again remember you cannot say for sure which horse is causing the issue.
 
No I do not think that is reasonable to expect or ask the owner of the other horse to pay for your rugs, neither would I ask for individual turnout. Horses are herd animals, they require company. A horse biting another is not necessarily going to lead to the horse kicking. The only horses that will never bite or kick are either model or rocking horses.
 
Echo YorksG. Horses are horses and one of the normal behaviours they exhibit is that they faff about in the field. Any new horse joining an established group will have to find its place in the herd heirarchy. Rug ripping, nips, bites and even kicks are always going to happen unless you keep the horse in isolation full time. Isolation is NOT a natural state of being for a horse. I've seen plenty of minor field injuries caused by 2 best-of-friends horses fooling around with each other. Are you 100% certain your horse doesn't start these heirarchy-jostling episodes? I'd check your livery contract too. Best practice is of course that owners are immediately informed of any problems but assisted DIY often only means bring in/turn out and tracking down a working owner because of a rug rip would be dedication indeed!
 
Horses are horses, and it's a consequence of livery that we may get a rug ripper - I certainly wouldn't be looking for compensation from the owner of the other horse. Likewise if I was the owner I wouldn't offer, and would tell you to go whistle if you approached me.

However, you may want to chat to the YO if you think that the rips are the result of your horse being bullied, as she may need to move to a quieter field, with different company.

As for texts - your horse cannot be watched 24/7, so not really sure why you expect that, as presumably you see the horses yourself daily anyway....
 
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I go every evening, weekends at least once if not twice per day.

My point is this - a rug is quite clearly ripped - surely to expect it to be lifted to ensure there's no injury is not much to ask? As it was there was a lump on her flank - 4 hours after she'd been stood in - so thats a substantial bite - remembering it's through a thickish ruig.

As for saying nothing - I find it irritating - we get notes about every other little thing left on our racks... I don't like "surprises" the first time I let it go - 2 weeks later I'm back to finding this.

I understand horses and their heirarchy - and yes - I have spent time watching them both out together. Mine is not the instigator - she looks for the way out - she was kicked twice by the first mare she was in with - I didn't complain - just took it as part of horse ownership - even though the other mare was vile to her - I was glad when she left.

The current field companion is new to the yard - they were introduced over the fence - they get on fine most of the time. Her companion flirts with the gelding next door and herds my girl... she pushes her along with her head on my girls rump...

Will get some nasty cribox spray and douse the LW with it... that on top of my expensive rugs should hopefully sort the problem...

I will discuss with the YM, if despite my attempts to curtail the biting it doesn't stop - I will be asking for individual turn out, or for an alternative fieldmate.

And yes, I'm pretty sure its her fieldmate - the others can't reach her where she's been bitten -esp over elec fencing... But I won't be approaching them - there's nothing they can do to prevent it.
 
My point is this - a rug is quite clearly ripped - surely to expect it to be lifted to ensure there's no injury is not much to ask?
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Do you have people on the yard whose job it is to lean on the fence and watch the horses all day then???

Sorry, I think you're being a little bit over optimistic that this sort of attention to detail goes on - and perhaps a little over the top.
 
amymay said:
Do you have people on the yard whose job it is to lean on the fence and watch the horses all day then???

Sorry, I think you're being a little bit over optimistic that this sort of attention to detail goes on - and perhaps a little over the top.
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No, and that, to be truthful is being quite pedantic.

When my horse is bought in- she's in her stable - it takes less than 2 minutes to look at a horse - its called having a duty of care.

Or is it only me when bringing in a horse that takes the oppotunity to cast an eye over any equine charge to ensure all is well??
 
catdragon said:
No, and that, to be truthful is being quite pedantic.

When my horse is bought in- she's in her stable - it takes less than 2 minutes to look at a horse - its called having a duty of care.

Or is it only me when bringing in a horse that takes the oppotunity to cast an eye over any equine charge to ensure all is well??
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But you go up in the evening - so will see your horse. Unless there was a serious problem I wouldn't expect my YO to be phoning or texting me.

Yes, I was being pedantic :p But it does sound as if that is what you expect.
 
I would request turnout arrangements are changed as I wouldn't be happy with my horse being bitten that hard.

I would not ask the other horse owner to pay for repairs though.

If part of your livery bill includes the yard owner/staff bringing your horse in from the field I would expect a quick check over for injuries to be part of this- particularly when there is clear evidence there has been a bit of argybargy with a damaged rug.
 
amymay said:
But you go up in the evening - so will see your horse. Unless there was a serious problem I wouldn't expect my YO to be phoning or texting me.

Yes, I was being pedantic :p But it does sound as if that is what you expect.
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I expect I have been spoilt with my last yard YM who did give 100% attention to detail... I looked long and hard before I moved - it was a tough decision after being at the old yard 6.5 years - but the distance was just too much for me to stay there, fine in summer - but an evil journey in winter (miles of untreated country lanes) ...

So yes, I agree, maybe my expectations were set higher, I will just have to learn to live with it or vote with my purse.

Cheers all for the advice / comments.
 
millitiger said:
I would request turnout arrangements are changed as I wouldn't be happy with my horse being bitten that hard.

I would not ask the other horse owner to pay for repairs though.

If part of your livery bill includes the yard owner/staff bringing your horse in from the field I would expect a quick check over for injuries to be part of this- particularly when there is clear evidence there has been a bit of argybargy with a damaged rug.
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Hi MT. Yes, my livery does include turn out / bring in, hence why I am annoyed not even a cursory glance seems to be made - as I said earlier, I have had notes for all sorts of things (non urgent kind of stuff, mundane even) but never a mention left of this sort of thing - I suppose thats why I am feeling annoyed.

And no, I am not approaching the other horses owner for recompense - I accept, its all part and parcel of sharing fields. Having never had anything like this happen before was guaging what others thought (again at old yard other owners either repaired or paid for repairs on other folk's rugs if it happened) I am just going to try and prevent it from happening again.
 
:DHi,

Just thought I'd add a little vote of sympathy here as I think some of the replies to your thread are a little harsh!

I agree these things happen, but it is annoying I have to say!! I have been in this situation, I'd spent a year before getting my horse saving so I could buy him the best rugs on the market. All fine to begin with as he was on his own but in a paddock next to others, then he got a field companion who promptly destroyed ALL of his lovely turnout rugs. I could have cried as I'd spent so much time and hard work saving for those rugs and have never been able to replace them with ones that are the same standard. So I know how you feel. No there isn't alot you can do except grit your teeth unfortunately. My irritation was that the other owner could turn her horse out happily knowing no harm would come to her horse or rugs while mine came in with shredded rugs day after day. To be fair she was kind enought to offer to lend me her gaffer tape! I was very controlled and polite when I declined :eek:

As a family we own 3 horses, and have since managed to rent a yard to ourselves where only our horses share the field, so no more hassles. Doesn't mean there will be no more kicks, bites or rug tears but it never grates quite as badly when your own do it to each other!

Sorry to hear about your hassles, I agree with the others not much you can do, but thought I'd offer you a bit of sympathy :D
 
hollyvictoriab said:
:DHi,

Just thought I'd add a little vote of sympathy here as I think some of the replies to your thread are a little harsh!

I agree these things happen, but it is annoying I have to say!! I have been in this situation, I'd spent a year before getting my horse saving so I could buy him the best rugs on the market. All fine to begin with as he was on his own but in a paddock next to others, then he got a field companion who promptly destroyed ALL of his lovely turnout rugs. I could have cried as I'd spent so much time and hard work saving for those rugs and have never been able to replace them with ones that are the same standard. So I know how you feel. No there isn't alot you can do except grit your teeth unfortunately. My irritation was that the other owner could turn her horse out happily knowing no harm would come to her horse or rugs while mine came in with shredded rugs day after day. To be fair she was kind enought to offer to lend me her gaffer tape! I was very controlled and polite when I declined :eek:

As a family we own 3 horses, and have since managed to rent a yard to ourselves where only our horses share the field, so no more hassles. Doesn't mean there will be no more kicks, bites or rug tears but it never grates quite as badly when your own do it to each other!

Sorry to hear about your hassles, I agree with the others not much you can do, but thought I'd offer you a bit of sympathy :D
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Thank you, that's very kind. Thankfully I have a thick skin, sometimes you have to, to post on an open forum such as this...

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and what annoys one falls like water from a ducks back for another - that's life.

And yes, it grates - I work hard and sacrifice things for myself to make sure my horse never goes without, so I can empathise with you about the shredding!

I am hoping a cribox soaked LW no-fill one size up rug slung on top of the good ones will save getting them damaged... Failing that, as said earlier I will request individual turn out.
 
Just thought I'd add a little vote of sympathy here as I think some of the replies to your thread are a little harsh!
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Hang on a minute. I am not being harsh - just a little realistic.

I fully sympathise with the OP's situation - no one likes their rugs ripped, or their horses bitten or damaged in any way.

I have put forward my thoughts on the situation, i.e no, don't ask for any money from the rug rippers owner - but do seek out different turnout solutions as the horse may be being bullied.

I have been on some excellent livery yards. All whose attention to detail have been second to none.

I have yet to come across one who will text me, though, because my horse has come in with a ripped rug or a bite mark. To my mind that is expecting rather too much.

The OP has, though, stated that she has been on a yard where this has happened in the past - which is brilliant service (but to my mind costly and unnessary).

Obviously if a horse comes in on 3 legs, or with a very obvious injury that is going to need prompt attention - then I would expect to be notified, and appropriate action to be taken.

And as for the OP having a thick skin. Really, get a grip!
 
As a yard owner, this is one of those things that occasionally occurs and causes distress to owners who are on the receiving end. I have to say that owners differ greatly in their attitude to this. Some are extremely upset and changes to turnout arrangements have to be made. Others just accept it as part of owning a lower ranking horse and tirelessly and patiently just get on with mending the rugs. The horses themselves do not seem at all bothered. Yes, if a bite is quite bad then it is unpleasant for a day or so, but horses soon forget and learn to keep out of the way of the bossy individual. I view biting and kicking as two entirely different things with horses. Kicking is extremely serious and horses are watched like hawks if any occurs to make sure that it is an isolated incident. Known kickers are turned out in separate paddocks.

Biting can become excessive, and if it doesn't settle down within a couple of weeks, then turnout arrangements are changed. Most biting only lasts a week or two whilst the hierachy establishes itself. Once a herd is stable, then it tends to deminish with only the occasional nip.

I have it written into the livery contract that no other livery can be held responsible for damage caused by their horse to others or their equipment.

I would not expect the same amount of care for a horse on assisted DIY as one on part livery. When stable staff have loads of horses to bring in, then they are going to spend the most time on those that they have full resonsibility for and not those whose owners are coming up later to attend to them. I only have full and part liveries and stay in daily contact by text with all owners for everything I think they need to know about, but I would not expect to be able to do this for DIY clients if I had them in addition unless there was an obvious problem.

I would give it another week with this mare (so long as she isn't kicking your horse) and if you are still experiencing problems then I would request a new field mate for your girl. I really do sympathise. No one likes their horse being bitten or theor rugs ripped. I've been there often enough.
 
I have got a grip AmyMay..

I've been on this forum a long time now and tbh, you never know how a thread will be taken, I didn't point anyone out as saying anything bad - BUT as I said you put ANYTHING on an open forum you're going to have all sorts of different points of view.

I asked for advice and suggestions and I am reading them all and taking a view on what I will do - again I have posted this also.

As Wagtail has said - it should hopefully settle down - hence my attempt to protect my horses rugs with the top rug with Cribox. IF it doesn't in the next few weeks - then yes, I shall be asking for alternative field arrangements whether that be individual or alternative field companion - that is between me and the YM.

I will tell my YM on her return, just so she is aware of the situation, and if it continues she'll be "up to speed" with what I am asking.

And this is a small yard. less than 10 to bring in - over half are assisted. And I am not saying it is a bad yard - never said that - just this issue arising - that I haven't experienced before - hence the post - to guage other folks opinions - good - bad or indifferent.

Thanks Wagtail for your comprehensive reply - nice to get it from the YO's perspective- as you'll note - I am not wanting to "rock the boat" but neither do I want to ignore a potential problem.

Thanks to all again who have taken the time to read and/or reply.
 
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