Advice to hinder broncking?

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GreenEyedMonster

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I have a new youngster who is a saint on the ground ( a little highly strung at times but aren't they all at that age?) but is a little challenging to ride

Compared to most horses her age (5) she is a star, the perfect first youngster, her first hack was done completely solo and she didn't look at a thing except one arrogant defender driver! And we were riding round a small town!

Moving on, she has recently learnt that broncking will get her out of work as it deposits the rider! She spooked when I mounted recently and I fell off as a result of her panicking, bolting (a little) and broncking.

Working with her breeder we went down to the school following that occasion and she was fine until we turned circles where it started all over again (I was only leaning over her) it's a naughty trick as she is fine with her saddle, bridle and happy to accept the contact when ridden normally!

My problem is that she is going to the breakers so that someone experienced can get on and show her it is not acceptable, I'm going too so that I can learn and help etc. but what if she tries this when she's back home and I haven't got a madman to ride it out of her?

I'm not much a fan of training aids but she does where a martingale, any suggestions? Other than an RS Tor handle?!

Thanks in Advance :)
 
There are several points in your thread that I am concerned about, you say she was almost perfect until the day she spooked and you ended up on the floor when mounting, that she was ok with you leaning over her until she was turning on a circle and started off again. If it is only when turning and not in a straight line then has her saddle and back been checked recently as it may be that it is uncomfortable for her to bend so she is bucking for that reason, horses that have been good and easy do not suddenly decide they can dump the rider as a trick to get out of work, it is nearly always due to pain or fear, she may have got a real fright when you came off, not thought that is a good idea I must try it again, they really don't just decide to be difficult.

I hope the breaker is more than a " madman who can ride her out of it" she sounds too nice to be ridden roughly and if that is how he deals with her you are likely to have a horse come back that still lacks trust in her rider, a sympathetic approach is usually best for a horse that has had a bad experience, if he does his job well you should not require gadgets to enable you to ride her she should be a relaxed willing partner like she was before.
 
I find sitting deep and back and keeping their heads up soon teaches them that it's not worth it.

Yes you don't want to be harsh on baby mouths but they need to know that broncing isn't acceptable and it does t get them anywhere.
 
Please don't take what I say too literally!

I say he is a madman because I would never have the confidence to get on her and just try and cling on, I would jump off! And I've never met him but heard plenty of good things, I was not asking for gadgets but maybe things to improve my confidence in the saddle...

And as for her circle, I would hardly say it was bending that caused her pain as it was merely cutting the corners at the far end of the school. She is a little spooky and can be nervy.

Please don't assume I am completely ignorant :( I know how a saddle should fit including all 7 key points and her back is sound as she is very well attended to, this is down to naughtiness because being quite lazy when she is actually ridden and a little distracted usually, I would say she doesn't find work very interesting and would probably prefer to be with her friends!

But thank you for your advice, I appreciate what you have said!
 
GreenEyedMonster said:
I have a new youngster who is a saint on the ground ( a little highly strung at times but aren't they all at that age?) but is a little challenging to ride

Compared to most horses her age (5) she is a star, the perfect first youngster, her first hack was done completely solo and she didn't look at a thing except one arrogant defender driver! And we were riding round a small town!

Moving on, she has recently learnt that broncking will get her out of work as it deposits the rider! She spooked when I mounted recently and I fell off as a result of her panicking, bolting (a little) and broncking.

Working with her breeder we went down to the school following that occasion and she was fine until we turned circles where it started all over again (I was only leaning over her) it's a naughty trick as she is fine with her saddle, bridle and happy to accept the contact when ridden normally!

My problem is that she is going to the breakers so that someone experienced can get on and show her it is not acceptable, I'm going too so that I can learn and help etc. but what if she tries this when she's back home and I haven't got a madman to ride it out of her?

I'm not much a fan of training aids but she does where a martingale, any suggestions? Other than an RS Tor handle?!

Thanks in Advance :)
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I have a stopbuck and it works well - but don't think they make them anymore
 
I had a few issues with my horse bucking when i first got him.
I ended up terrified of riding him, we went right back to basics with groundwork and I spent a couple of weeks just building up my confidence again on the ground and bought an australian stock saddle. When i started riding again he still bucked now and again, but you just can t fall off a stock saddle with polleys. This gave me confidence to stay calm and in turn the bucking stopped. I went back to an english saddle for the last couple of years i rode him with no further problems.
 
I was going to suggest a stock saddle aswell. Perhaps you could borrow one or buy secondhand. I realise they are not common in the UK. Wintec do one with a changeable gullet. As Luckyoldme says they are very difficult to fall out of so you should feel confident. Mine has saved me from "biting the dust" on many an occasion! Failing that a western one would do the same job but not so easy to get the leg on due to the fenders if you want to do flatwork.
 
To improve your 'stickability', is there something else you can ride while she is being worked on? Riding without stirrups helps tremendously, so if you can hack and jump without stirrups then you would feel more confident and secure in the saddle (start with being lunged at the walk if you are not used to it).
Another alternative is growing longer legs, which certainly worked for people like Andrew Nicholson - LOL!!
 
I bought an irish horse that was very bad. Whilst several saddle fitters said the saddle fitted and I have a pretty good idea too it was the saddle and the shape of the horse. The horse had a very wide spine and he needed a whole hand in the gullet ples a high cut back head, he too exploded just after turns and didn't do it on the lunge. The saddle moved forward and hit his scapula as he turned, plus he needed a very short saddle despite being 16.3hh. The third saddler sorted it , he had been sold as unrideable but was fine once the saddle was sorted for him. he too appeared very nervous and it was put down to temperament but nothing could be farther from the truth, he was actually bombproof and not lazy as he first appeared, just couldn't move in the saddles that were fitted to him. Food for thought?
 
luckyoldme said:
I had a few issues with my horse bucking when i first got him.
I ended up terrified of riding him, we went right back to basics with groundwork and I spent a couple of weeks just building up my confidence again on the ground and bought an australian stock saddle. When i started riding again he still bucked now and again, but you just can t fall off a stock saddle with polleys. This gave me confidence to stay calm and in turn the bucking stopped. I went back to an english saddle for the last couple of years i rode him with no further problems.
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Thanks that is great to hear, I'll do try more ground work!!
 
wkiwi said:
To improve your 'stickability', is there something else you can ride while she is being worked on? Riding without stirrups helps tremendously, so if you can hack and jump without stirrups then you would feel more confident and secure in the saddle (start with being lunged at the walk if you are not used to it).
Another alternative is growing longer legs, which certainly worked for people like Andrew Nicholson - LOL!!
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I have another horse who is a real handful who I've owned for four years and he can rear and squeal and bounce but he doesn't bother me! It's silly, he could bronck and spook and as long and I stay in control and I still feel safe!
 
old hand said:
I bought an irish horse that was very bad. Whilst several saddle fitters said the saddle fitted and I have a pretty good idea too it was the saddle and the shape of the horse. The horse had a very wide spine and he needed a whole hand in the gullet ples a high cut back head, he too exploded just after turns and didn't do it on the lunge. The saddle moved forward and hit his scapula as he turned, plus he needed a very short saddle despite being 16.3hh. The third saddler sorted it , he had been sold as unrideable but was fine once the saddle was sorted for him. he too appeared very nervous and it was put down to temperament but nothing could be farther from the truth, he was actually bombproof and not lazy as he first appeared, just couldn't move in the saddles that were fitted to him. Food for thought?
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The thing is when I ride her in the saddle she is lovely, her circles have actually improved and she responds to my leg really well and is happy to try poles and things, that is why I doubt the saddle is a real problem! It seems strange that if it was the saddle it is only happening when I lean over her and not when she's lunged in it or ridden in it??
 
GreenEyedMonster said:
The thing is when I ride her in the saddle she is lovely, her circles have actually improved and she responds to my leg really well and is happy to try poles and things, that is why I doubt the saddle is a real problem! It seems strange that if it was the saddle it is only happening when I lean over her and not when she's lunged in it or ridden in it??
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It could be that when you are leaning over or turning that your weight is applied to her back asymmetrically and that causes her pain. Can you borrow a different saddle or lean over her bareback to see if there is any difference? I'd at least get her looked at by a chiropractor.
 
Shorten your stirrups so you can get your heals right down. If she broncs get up and out of the saddle and bridge your reins on her neck. As she's doing it kick her on and growl at her - don't try to pull her up whatever you do! She needs to know that a) she can't deposit the rider like this, and b) it doesn't mean she can stop working.

IMO sitting back and in the saddle is a bad idea. You're going to fly off this way like a catapult. If there's nothing in the saddle though, there's nothing to fall out of it.
 
SkewbyTwo said:
OP my youngster did this. It was wolf teeth.

Please, all physical checks before the "madman" :)
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As I said the madman broke her in before hand so he would not hurt her, especially if I'm going to be there for each time he works with her!

I had not thought of wolf teeth! She had he dentist recently but I will check again!
 
SpringArising said:
Shorten your stirrups so you can get your heals right down. If she broncs get up and out of the saddle and bridge your reins on her neck. As she's doing it kick her on and growl at her - don't try to pull her up whatever you do! She needs to know that a) she can't deposit the rider like this, and b) it doesn't mean she can stop working.

IMO sitting back and in the saddle is a bad idea. You're going to fly off this way like a catapult. If there's nothing in the saddle though, there's nothing to fall out of it.
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What brilliant advice! I will have to put it into practice when I get back on her again, she isn't going for a few weeks as I have exams so I want to be able to give her my undivided attention but when I do get on again I shall do just that! X
 
Digger66 said:
It could be that when you are leaning over or turning that your weight is applied to her back asymmetrically and that causes her pain. Can you borrow a different saddle or lean over her bareback to see if there is any difference? I'd at least get her looked at by a chiropractor.
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That is a good point.... She has been using two different saddles but he original was too narrow and synthetic which I didn't like, we will do a but of an MOT!
 
My gelding was badly broken before I had him as a 3 year old. He learned to rear, bronc and dump the rider & never trust people again.

He had a couple of months off & then I started again when he arrived and took him very carefully, everything done till it was a bore and he was absolutely calm & confident. He was always fine after that, (sadly he can rear now), but there is hope, they can be re educated.

A good nagsman nipping this in the bud should sort this. I would ensure you really control getting on and off in future. Maybe always have someone holding her and ensure you have a good solid mounting block and she learns to stand quietly while you faff & make lots of noise at it & around it.
 
siennamum said:
My gelding was badly broken before I had him as a 3 year old. He learned to rear, bronc and dump the rider & never trust people again.

He had a couple of months off & then I started again when he arrived and took him very carefully, everything done till it was a bore and he was absolutely calm & confident. He was always fine after that, (sadly he can rear now), but there is hope, they can be re educated.

A good nagsman nipping this in the bud should sort this. I would ensure you really control getting on and off in future. Maybe always have someone holding her and ensure you have a good solid mounting block and she learns to stand quietly while you faff & make lots of noise at it & around it.
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Thank you I will remember this, i think it probably hasn't helped not having more people to help! Good to hear you understand where I am coming from!
 
Is she only just backed?

I would also recommend that you rule out any pain.

I wouldn't personally be taking a youngster that reacts in this way into the arena, I have found that these sort of antics are far better worked through out hacking. Use a neck strap and ride her forwards at all times, if this means trotting the whole ride then so be it, do not let her think backwards.

Ultimately if it is naughtiness then you will have to find the way to work through it yourself, good luck.
 
LJR said:
Is she only just backed?

I would also recommend that you rule out any pain.

I wouldn't personally be taking a youngster that reacts in this way into the arena, I have found that these sort of antics are far better worked through out hacking. Use a neck strap and ride her forwards at all times, if this means trotting the whole ride then so be it, do not let her think backwards.

Ultimately if it is naughtiness then you will have to find the way to work through it yourself, good luck.
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She is usually very happy in the arena, I would never do something like it out hacking as it's quite dangerous if she has plenty of places to run to and we traffic but I see where you are coming from regards having somewhere nicer to settle in.
 
As everyone has already said to rule out pain....I will share my experience of a very young horse who panicked when being mounted (plunge forward and rodeo). Following a nasty fall from my newly purchased and just backed 4yo where he spooked while i was getting on (I was past the point of no return but arse not quite in saddle), then shot across the arena bucking. I had no chance and came flying off, luckily unhurt.

I sent him to Jason Webb to re-start. He told me it was highly likely he was reliving a negative experience following or during breaking. Perhaps stemming from an ill fitting saddle, so remembered pain, or just a scary experience. Anyway, he gave me some valuable lessons to deal with him during mounting:

1. Lead around before mounting, turn left, turn right, stop (if horse walks into you, back them up - see Monty Roberts demos!). This ensures their attention is on you.
2. Always mount from a mounting block (he's a big sod)
3. Only get attempt to get on when horse is standing quietly, attention on you, and is aware you are getting. I.e. distraction / element of surprise not good! If it takes 3 attempts great, if it takes 30 attempts, keep persevering. Just keep going back to the mounting block. Dont get cross, just keep trying.
4. As soon as mounted, first thing to turn a couple of small circles left and right. Difficult to buck with much conviction when turning on a circle.
5. If horse does buck, one rein stop, get that head up and right around sharpish! Dont try and ride it out / sit it out.
6. At the end of the session, get off, get back on again, get off again.
7. Avoid prolonged time off in the early days, so be very wary when coming back from holidays for example.

I spent many an evening in the pi**ing rain in the winter trying to get on, but i carried on and he did come through it. He is 14 now and is perfect to mount. The only time the old issues reappear is if we are at a comp / somewhere very very exciting and he can get a bit flighty.

I also traced his owner (the one who had him backed) several years ago and found out she had an awful fall, as in life changing, while trying to mount him. Which is why he ended up for sale. So 'ole Jason was right!

And of course prior to sending him to Jason i had a vet check / saddle check to make sure it wasn't something simple like pain causing the response. : )
 
OP in your post you say anything ‘other than an RStor’... any reason why? An RStor is the one thing that enabled me to stick on my broncing youngster and give me the confidence to work through it :) I had broncs like a mustang too, bourne from nappiness and being naughty (saddle, back, teeth all checked). I got the RStor and the next time he tried it I was so much more secure it gave me that moment you need to gain the upper hand again. Also, a very good RI told me to think about riding with my weight spread wide, more into the stirrups than bum down into the saddle and into his back and to keep my shoulders back. That way if anything did happen I was less likely to be pinged !
 
can i ask why at 5yo you are still leaning over her? suggests she has not been at all easy to break as once ive been on mine and got trotting i do away with leaning completely.

all i can say is that i would triple check the saddle. i am backing my 3yo and he was fab, walking tight circles each way and straight lines with me leaning over him but then out the blue dumped me on my back and from then on wouldnt let me back on, kept swinging his head round and really tensing his back. swapped saddle for a W (rather than MW) and hes been fine. so even the tiny bit of lunging hes been doing has bulked him up! they change shape SO quickly.

we leant over bareback a few times to 1. decide if it was saddle and 2. build confidence up and it was immediately apparent that he was ok with that.
 
Hi sorry didn't read the post properly, just lost my favourite horse ever so a bit of brain fog. Not quite the same but I had a very safe reliable horse go totally beserk after i mounted him one day. the saddle had moved at the back and touched his spine , girth not tight enough! I wnet twenty feet into the air backwards. Landed on my air jacket so I was OK. Could your saddle be moving across when you lie over her? Sometimes if they have round ribs it is difficult to get on top of the saddle without shifting it?
 
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