Advice wanted, how do you stop a reared?

[JanetGeorge]

I've had quite a few rearers in my day (they're cheap, lol) One I had was virtually cured before I came to the UK (he was an ex hurdle-racer I evented). Cured him by spinning him hard on the spot every time he tried (you've got to be quick and kick, kick, kick.) After about 6 months of that, he never reared wih me but reared with anyone he didn't know. Luckily I found a buyer who was keen enough - and smart enough to follow instructions.

The first horse I bought in the UK was a 4yo, half Cleveland Bay. He was meant to be backed. I found out after I'd bought him that he'd been sold 8 weeks earlier for £1200 MORE than I paid for him - so figure it out. He reared when he didn't want to go forward, or if anything spooked him, but by the time the poppet was 14, he only reared if a bigger horse came alongside him who was bigger than he was! So he was only partly cured - by the same method - but he was incredibly well balanced and only went over once in 10 years - and that was with my husband who pulled him over (not deliberately, pure incompetence!)

I did have oe of my home-breds - perfect manners when she left here - come home after a 6 week trial period with the Met. (She allegedly didn't like pedestrians.) The first two days back she reared several times - but stopped damn quick and didn't ever do it in her new/current home.

You need to consider WHY they do it - and go on from there. But a neckstrap is vital unless you can be sure of perfect balance!

 

[Auslander]

I don't think that the falling over bit is the worrying part. It's the fact that the horse reared high enough that it went over backwards with no external provocation that would bother me. If their isn't something wrong (that can be resolved), then there are worse things that can happen to a rearer than PTS. I'd try and find an old fashioned nagsman to get on and assess him, once pain is ruled out. If he said he didn't fancy riding it again, I'd listen and take heed.

 

[rachk89]

I think a lot of people forget what it's like to be 17. Most 17 year olds won't listen to a word their parents say even if they respect them.

Get him checked over by a vet definitely to rule out pain. I don't think you will find many pros willing to ride him but maybe try what Janet George said. My horse has become nappy in the arena only and does pathetic mini rears but I have to just push him forward out of it. Once I do he is fine although still tense. He will only relax in the field now. No idea why.

 

[showley1]

Will speak to vet this morning and back person and go from there, this obviously has a cause as this is not something he does all the time, last time his saddle was too tight, saddle was sorted rearing stopped, ( he had done 2 mini rears ) Sunday obviously was scary and I do need to get to the bottom of this but pts is NOT an option, unless it turns out to be something medically wrong that pts is the best option for the horse , we have owned him 4 years and he will stay with us till the end of his days

 

[elsielouise]

http://australianhorsetraining.co.uk/why-do-horses-rear/

Recommend this trainer. Have seen him train many times and several friends have used him including one with a rearing horse. Would not ride until established clinically sound first.

Would not let my child ride before a pro.

However I saw a pony club mum shout at her child to get back on the pony who had just dumped her by rearing with her at a rally the other day.

Amazingly the instructor allowed her to continue riding it too. Was speechless!

 

[Michen]

Maybe time to get the vet?

I think a lot of people forget what it's like to be 17. Most 17 year olds won't listen to a word their parents say even if they respect them.

Get him checked over by a vet definitely to rule out pain. I don't think you will find many pros willing to ride him but maybe try what Janet George said. My horse has become nappy in the arena only and does pathetic mini rears but I have to just push him forward out of it. Once I do he is fine although still tense. He will only relax in the field now. No idea why.

 

[JillA]

I have cured one, who went on to be a fantastic horse - all that determination used FOR me instead of against me.
But it was my decision and my timing is good. I used the German "mill" - an instantaneous TIGHT, nose to boot type circle as soon as I felt the brakes go on and the front go light, you have to do it with intent and BEFORE the rear actually happens, otherwise you will overbalance him and he and she will come down sideways. With mine it was napping, and after a handful of times doing that, on the next one I just took a feel on one rein and she immediately offered forwards. It is a very harsh form of aversive, which you must not use if there is an underlying pain reason, but if it is napping or excitement it can work well.

 

[Auslander]

I think a lot of people forget what it's like to be 17. Most 17 year olds won't listen to a word their parents say even if they respect them.

I haven't forgotten wha it was like to be 17, but I am a mother, and if my child had a horse who reared and went over backwards, I would do eveything within my power to make sure my child didn't get back on that horse until the problem was identified and dealt with. I know full well that teenagers often don't do what their parents tell them to - but in this instance, if I couldn't trust my child, I would be taking the tack home, and telling the owner/manager/staff where the horse is kept that it is not to be ridden until the issue is investigated.
Incidentally, Im not coming at this as a nervous nellie mum. I've been there! I rode a lot of rearers in my younger days - it was a bit of a specialist area for me when I was younger, fitter and more stupid! I quickly learned which ones were "safe" and which were likely to kill themselves/me, and I advised the owners accordingly.

In this scenario, it's possible that the rider may have lost her balance and accidentally pulled the horse over (very easy to do if you don't have experience of HiHo Silver style rears) which would worry me less than if it was chucking itself over backwards. Still shouldn't have been high enough to go over backwards in the first place, and OP is doing exactly the right thing by getting the vet involved.

 

[Regandal]

OP, I'd push for a back xray, only way to rule out kissing spines.

 

[ycbm]

Had my daughters ish almost 4 years and whilst he has sometimes threatened at times to rear it has only been small. until this summer, he has just gone 8, it seems if he is not getting what he wants he will go up, ( mainly in a show situation but has been known to do it on a field hacking) all usual checks done, has anyone any experience of this and how did you solve it? He is going up to the point this sun he fell over backwards, this is getting dangerous for them both, but when they go for lessons he is fine????

To me this sounds like it could be a classic for kissing spines, which can only be found by x ray. A surgeon who operated on one of mine said that there are three ages when they show - on breaking, at 7-8 And at about 12 in dressage horses asked to do pirouettes, for example.

Your daughter's horse is not rearing in lessons, where presumably he is being worked with a correctly stretched spine on a consistent flat surface . But in other situations, he does.

I would be asking for x rays no matter what the physio or vet think.

 

[0310Star]

She certainly won't be riding him in a show situation until we have gotten to the bottom of it, she says he lost his footing which is why he went over, but he really is her best friend and of I knew how to post pics on here would post many to prove this 95 % of the time they are a perfect partnership... we need to get to the bottom of why this is happening the 5% of the time, am getting his back and saddle checked again this week to 100% rule this out ( 3 months since last check) also thinking maybe thermo imaging? Daughter has also suggested a horse whisperer? Would not know where to start with that though?

A friend of mine had a horse that was 95% of the time absolutely fine, but when the 5% came out she was dangerous. She had her 10 years with a few near misses but the horse never went all the way over, she persevered and last year we went on a charity ride (we had done loads before with no issues) the horses ended up going up and losing her footing on tarmac up a hill and went straight over, my friend is lucky to be alive and get away with a badly broken leg (open fracture). Both rider and myself (I was directly behind her and witnessed it all) were also left with confidence at rock bottom. But once home the horse done it again on a lunge line. As far as I'm concerned a horse that will go over and not scare itself enough to not do it again is a danger to itself and others.
Don't let your daughter get back on that horse! My friend is 35 and her mother threatened to take her tack if she even contemplated getting on the horse again... you should do the same for the safety of your daughter!

 

[showley1]

Thanks, vet is phoning me back this morning, will ask for xrays to at the very least rule kissing spines out, and no he has never reared in a lesson, rearing is not a daily or even monthly occurrence, arounder 2 years ago, he had point where he had done a couple of half rears, we got his back done and new saddle and that sorted the problem..... until now , the last time we went show jumping he was perfect all day, at the end of the day he put in a half rear when asked to leave the field he had been waiting in, we just put it down to excitement, then this on Sunday, could have been napping as his turnout field is next door to the show field so his playmates were in full sight, he certainly did not throw himself over he lost balance either wrong footing or daughter unbalanced him but agree the fact he was high enough to do that is what worried me, will just see what vet suggests, they have known him the whole time we have had him so hopefully we can get a solution

 

[oldie48]

We had a lovely ISH but he had a tendency to nap out hacking. Always the same routine, stop, spin to the right and if checked, would rear. Horse was a 6 yr old, daughter was 16 and she sorted it very quickly. He was just trying it on and was basically a very nice safe horse but rearing IMO is a complete no no because even a very well balanced horse can slip and go over. He went over with daughter on one occasion, he was not napping and it was the combination of a new bit and her mistake, we changed the bit and she learned a lesson she never forgot. TBH I think it's very difficult to assess what's going on with the horse unless you can see it happening and there's a lot of difference between a young horse having a bit of a paddy and a confirmed rearer that has no sense of self preservation but unfortunately if the horse goes over onto the rider the result is the same. I'd have got professional help if it had continued perhaps your daughter should do the same.

 

[Suelin]

I had a horse that did this sort of thing, exactly as you describe, really randomly. She was put down in the end and pm showed a brain tumour. Do be careful, and hope you get to the bottom of it all.

 

[Merrymoles]

Its not him I worry about! When I was about 14 , the head lad at the racing yard took me to one side and told me "there isnt a horse on this yard that is worth getting killed for!"This is a lesson that I try to keep in mind even after nearly half a century.

I was also given this advice when working with valuable TB youngstock at a stud. The very experienced stud groom said to me "Don't let them kill you - if in doubt let go, there isn't a horse in the world worth it" and that is advice that has stuck with me ever since.

 

[scats]

I would definitely get him thoroughly checked out- xrays, back, teeth, tack etc, all things I'm sure you will be doing anyway.
You might find the cause of the issue there, but if not, it may well be a behavioural issue that has stemmed from napping. First and foremost, don't let your daughter put herself in any danger (which I'm sure you won't), it sounds as if this horse has a lovely home with you regardless of the outcome, which is fabulous.

Once physical problems have been ruled out, I would look for a professional who deals with this sort of thing to see if they can help you find the triggers for the behaviour. A lot of rearing behaviour stems from napping that has got out of hand, they may start with some bunny hopping behaviour- front legs lifting ever so slightly, sometimes with a spin and gradually over time or with an increase in pressure, this turns into rearing.

Unfortunately it is very difficult to give advice over a forum as each horse is so individual that there really is no one set way of working with these problems. My jumping pony when I was a teenager had an incredible rear on her, and had gone over backwards with the previous rider. A lot of people were terrified of getting on her, but to this day she was the pony I trusted most over anything I've ever ridden. I just knew which buttons not to press and I've never felt as safe on a pony as I did on her. She bunny hopped occasionally with me, but it never escalated. I can't describe why or how, but that pony and I clicked (she'd had a sad earlier life) and when we found each other we had this incredible bond that I don't think I'll ever get with anything again.

But equally, I've been on rearers and known full well that I do not want to be on them anymore for fear of my life! In those situations, I have got off and known when to call it a day. As someone has said, no horse is worth risking your life.

Get some help, don't take any silly risks and do keep us updated. I wish you, your daughter and her horse all the best.

 

[Cortez]

I recently had a horse come over backwards on me, it wasn't even a serious rear - she slipped and went over. To be honest I don't really care why she went up, there isn't an excuse for it and any horse that decides that standing up beacause it doesn't want to do what you ask is not a suitable riding (or driving) animal. I was lucky to get off with a badly broken femur, it could have been much, much worse.

 

[cundlegreen]

To me this sounds like it could be a classic for kissing spines, which can only be found by x ray. A surgeon who operated on one of mine said that there are three ages when they show - on breaking, at 7-8 And at about 12 in dressage horses asked to do pirouettes, for example.

Your daughter's horse is not rearing in lessons, where presumably he is being worked with a correctly stretched spine on a consistent flat surface . But in other situations, he does.

I would be asking for x rays no matter what the physio or vet think.

Absolutely this... I had a 6 yr old mare this year who was competing successfully, but was tucked up and not happy. I rode her bareback to the field one day, and she reared three times and tipped me out of the back door. She was very upset, and it was totally out of charactor for her. Had her xrayed, and scanned. Bone spurs caused by horrendous tearing of the supra spinous ligament. The vet thought I was fussing until he saw the xrays. For the cost of approx £200 you could get this ruled out.

 

[Slightlyconfused]

I would.just like to point out a back person can't tell you if the horse has KS or sacroiliac problems

My wb mare kept rearing and went over with my sister, luckily she fell sideways and missed landing on my sister.
We had back and saddle checked was told all was fine but I got vet out to xray her back and he found she had four processes completely fused and another four partially fused.

So I would ask for a vet work on based on his behaviour and take it from there.

 

[ROMANY 1959]

My friend , who bought a "safe cob" a month ago, so she thought...is in Stoke manderville flat on her back with broken back after being thrown from the said cob when it reared with her , threw her off, and also reared when some one tried to catch it and kicked them in the side putting them in hospital too with broken ribs and ruptured kidney!! And she is a veteran horse owner, appears horse had done this in previous home but was sold on as a safe happy hacker. It's not worth the risk. I think my friends horse will be meeting its maker when she is on her feet.

 

[applecart14]

My horse has only reared three times in 12 years of owning him, each time a different scenario. Once when he was led in hand after 10 days box rest and it was a very slow rear, his feet were aimed away from me, prior to that he'd been grazing for ten mins while I chatted to someone over the fence.

Another time I tried a saddle on him from a supposedly decent 'saddle fitter'. He took three steps away from the mounting block and went very slowly up in the air, I'd say three quarters of the way up. Clear indication the saddle didn't fit, I have never got off a horse so fast.

There is always a reason, a horse rarely rears for 'pleasure', except in his case in the last scenario - the horses at a previous yard had to be stabled due to heavy snowfall for a couple of days, I did some playtime with him in the indoor school, having a run around, I was running towards him and away from him and he was chasing me, I was chasing him, I was diving to the side, he did the same, it was a bit of innocent fun, horse has never kicked or been silly. But as I went towards him and raised my hands, he reared full height. I did a girly scream and ran out of the school! When I thought about it after it was clear he was just playing with me, he certainly meant me no harm, he adores me like I adore him, but I cursed myself for my stupidity, as I'd not had a hat on at the time.

I know Richard Maxwell uses a wip *** which is like a few bits of material sewn together and when the horse rears you slap his belly with the wip ***. The timing has to be spot on though and should really only be done by a professional because it can be dangerous. The idea is that the horse in the wild is vulnerable to predators around its stomach area. When wild boars and other animals attack and kill a horse in the wild the only way they can bring the animal down is by goring at its stomach which releases the intestines and the horse dies. So 'according to Max' if the horse is slapped by a wip *** at the precise second it rears it will instill enough doubt in its head that it won't do it again. How reliable it is I am not sure. Ring Max is my advice and get him to come out and offer you some advice.

If you are prepared to spend some money you might sort the problem out. I think its more a physical problem with it, like KS that others have suggested though, than a mental problem.

 

[applecart14]

The second word meant to say W (initial of orange) and P but its been deleted, I believe it is slang for something sexually offensive - sorry peeps! Whoops

 

[poiuytrewq]

I was also given this advice when working with valuable TB youngstock at a stud. The very experienced stud groom said to me "Don't let them kill you - if in doubt let go, there isn't a horse in the world worth it" and that is advice that has stuck with me ever since.

Wish my boss had this attitude! It's so true

Op- just a thought get his eyes checked. Ours started rearing when his eye problems were bad

 

[OWLIE185]

Excellent advice from everyone.

 

[smja]

She is away working ( she works on an event yard ) will tell her after discussion with vet it has been decided better to not ride him at all until any physical problems can be ruled out , that she won't have a problem with, she is not stupid, confident but not stupid and certainly would not risk harming him

If vet doesn't turn up anything, why not ask the pro she works for to give some advice? She might listen to them, and they may be able to tell what's happening.

There are several techniques for a horse that rears, but which one(s) you use depend on WHY the rearing is happening and the personality of the horse. Using the wrong one, or having poor timing, can make the situation so incredibly much worse.

 

[Dunlin]

Nothing really to add as there's been some excellent advice on here but I will repeat what my Father said to me almost 20 years ago when I had a horse who started rearing and bolting suddenly. I was 16 at the time and very stubborn. He said if I rode him he would have the horse shot, despite thinking "no, he wouldn't do that" I genuinely did not want to test that theory. Now I am sure there will be many who will recoil in horror at someone saying that to their daughter but my god am I now grateful for that shock. The horse was eventually pts as thousands were spent with no answers, post mortem showed a brain tumour.

I hope you manage to find a way forward and please please, to your daughter, it really is not worth it, would you rather not ride for a while or be paralysed or worse dead and never know the love of horses and your family ever again.

 

[YorksG]

OP, who paid for the horse and who pays for the keep of said horse? If it is you, then you tell the rider that until the possibility of physical problems is properly investigated, then no-one rides the horse. At 17 had I been told by my parents that I didn't ride the horse they had bought for me, then I would not have ridden it, I think you need to take that tack with your daughter.

 

[MiJodsR2BlinkinTite]

A long long time ago when I was a kid in Pony Club there were three pieces of advice for anyone with a rearer:

- Get off

- Stay off

- and ring kennels

We are now in more enlightened times, but unfortunately once a horse has learnt to do this then it is a devil of a problem to break. I went to view a nice little NF pony recently - only been backed last autumn - and when it was asked to go out the yard solo it reared up, had obviously done this before and the habit pattern was ingrained. My traddie cob went up at a show once with me, in hand, and it frightened the *****e out of me, but I've always suspected that his background was an abusive one - i.e. chased around various markets by rough men as he hates guys with hi viz jackets on and I think shows etc remind him of this - and so realise that probably this is what he felt he had to do to protect himself when he was in situations in the past where he felt vulnerable and frightened. I simply avoid shows and places where there are going to be a lot of people and horses all together, he's fine as a happy hacker but I know he'd blow all his fuses in the wrong situation and accept that.

But OP PLEASE don't let your daughter ride this animal until this is sorted.

You say you've "done all the usual checks" - OK, so I'm presuming this is teeth, saddle fitting, bit & bridle, physio and/or vet??? Yes, yes, yes & yes??

My advice in the first instance would be to seek professional help with this........ please don't even try to sort it yourself and particularly not your daughter. You may have to spend considerable money on getting help with this - and even then the habit may well re-establish itself.

Sorry to be giving a gloomy prognosis - but at the end of the day there is the safety of someone you care very much about.

What I am saying is that whilst it may, just may, given time & experience, be possible to sort this horse out, it will undoubtedly cost you a fair bit of cash and even then there is no sure guarantee of success; yes appreciating your daughter is fond of it, but if anything happens you will have to live with your conscience for a very long time - soooooo, it may be time to be decisive and move this horse on.......... there WILL be people out there who will no doubt be able to tackle the problem and will relish the opportunity of a project to work on, but personally if it were my daughter I know what my decision would be.......

 

[rotters13]

Going slightly against the boat here but when I was 17 i had a horse that reared as an evasion. I'm still alive and it certainly never scared me. He always reared to the left so we spent a lot of time doing pirouettes away from the left leg and whenever he wasn't sure I made sure we immediately went forward. You need to keep their feet moving.

 

[Merrymoles]

Just a light-hearted addition but not meant to be advice in any shape or form - I still say any risk isn't worth it - but my old horse reared twice as a four year old, not getting very high either time. The first time was when he was learning to open a gate and I think it was sheer frustration of not understanding why I kept re-presenting him.

The second time was when I had ridden him to an evening show to watch another friend jumping. We were not taking part, it was just part of his education. He was a bit anxious with all the activity and I took him to a quieter area where he promptly reared. I was so shocked and surprised that I bellowed in his ear and he never did it again in the 16 years that I had him.

However, the difference between this and your experience is clear: I was dealing with a young horse who had been pushed out of his comfort zone and could not mentally cope and the rears were definitely his infantile way of saying WTF? Your situation is completely different and obviously needs a very different approach.