Advice Wanted - It's all gone wrong!

[Adniolo]

Hi there. I'm a newbie desperately seeking some advice!

I have recently bought a pony through a private sale and it has quickly gone so wrong. Despite making it absolutely clear that I'm a novice rider and handler, I have been sold a pony with a problem which was undisclosed by the seller.

Although he is reasonably well behaved and an easy ride, he does have an unusual problem. On the day he arrived a friend was leading him across the field and he tanked off to the side, kicking his heels up and striking out at her head! I put this down to the stress of being moved, etc but was wary. A few days later he did the same thing while being led along the road.

The third time was a couple of nights ago as he was being led to be loaded. Unfortunately, this time he made contact and I ended up in hospital! He kicked me in the face and ran over the top of me..... Ouch! So I now have some facial injuries and a pony I'm scared of.

In each instance there was nothing obvious that had spooked him (he's not a spooky pony). He goes along really calmly then, totally without warning, pulls sharply to the right, turns to look at you and aims to kick you in the head. It is a very deliberate aim - he knows exactly what he's doing!

The first time he was in a Be-Nice, the next two times he was in his bridle with the bit in his mouth.

I'm now torn between trying to sell him, which is going to be difficult given this problem, or keeping him and trying to work through it, again difficult because I will have a hard time trusting him out of the field. I've grown very fond of him and am reluctant to let him go but cannot live with this!

Have any mambers had experience of this and is there anything I could try to cure him of this problem?

 

[Ravenwood]

What do you do when he does this?

 

[scally]

Yes, totally did what you describe was a sweetheart to ride you would trust him with your granny, but on the ground had learnt some very nasty habits. Including trying to squash you when grooming, kicking out when tacking up and doing what yours does when being led in hand.

I got one of Kelly Marks RAs out to help as I am not a novice but he totally beat me. With a Dually and a longline, and me moving him rather than him moving me where he wanted.

Please please wear a hat and body protector when leading, and get help if you intend to keep, it can be cured with time and patient in fact sold ours by pure chance when he jumped out the field (another of his tricks) when someone was on the yard looking to buy something different and fell in love with him and his bad habits.

I cant recommend getting an RA out strongly enough, this is not something you can deal with yourself, and arming yourself with the correct knowledge to deal with the problem really helps your confidence.

 

[miss_bird]

If you are going to keep him, get some help.
Have you tried a chifney and a lunge line, that way you have the room to move without letting go of the horse

 

[LauraElise]

Having been kicked last week by a horse on our yard who does exactly this I would suggest you try a chifney. That is the only thing that will stop this horse from spinning and deliberately kicking out to get you. He is 12 years old and owner has tried everything, the chifney is the only thing he respects. He was not wearing it when he got me unfortunately.

 

[Kallibear]

Selling him will be difficult so if you otherwise like his, it would be worth fixing (and it is fixable). BUT GET HELP. Proper, proffesional help.

Ask around to find someone who deals with groundwork problems (a normal riding instructor probabaly won't be up to the job). Someone who will train YOU to deal with and fix it, not just fix the pony. Kelly Marks would be a good place to start.

 

[AndySpooner]

Selling him will be difficult so if you otherwise like his, it would be worth fixing (and it is fixable). BUT GET HELP. Proper, proffesional help.

Ask around to find someone who deals with groundwork problems (a normal riding instructor probabaly won't be up to the job). Someone who will train YOU to deal with and fix it, not just fix the pony. Kelly Marks would be a good place to start.

Sound advice here, this can definately be cured with proper groundwork skills, its basically a lack of respect and he is making his own decisions, but, you do need someone to train you how to deal with it rather than just training the horse.

 

[MrsMozart]

Ditto the others. Ground work and gaining his respect for his handler.

I hope you are okay! Poor hun. It's very scary when something like that happens. If you're going to need to be leading him in and out before you can get someone out to help you, ditto the hat, body protector, lunge line - I'd add gloves and a schooling or driving whip. The whip isn't to thrash the pony, it's to make your space bigger, so the whip is like an extension of your arm and you can say 'this is my space, back off buddy'.

 

[Aces_High]

What a naughty pony. I used to have a colt who would do the same thing. I resorted to leading him always in a bridle, lunge line and with a roller and side reins. If he hooks off to the right then have the left one tighter to keep him turning towards you. Might need someone with a little more experience to try this for a few times and you watch and get the jist of how it works. Is there someone where you keep him to help you? How big/what type is he? Sounds like he's got into the habit of doing it and it needs curbing straight away.

 

[diggerbez]

i think there are a lot of horses that will do this especially with novice owners (they very quickly learn that they can take the P and so play up more frequently than they would with someone more experienced....) he's probably not doing it to be malicious (horses don't think like that i don't think) - he's just asserting his authority over you/your friend- he sees himself as higher up in the pecking order if you get what i mean? so what you have to do is show him that YOU are higher up the order than him- so yes i think some sessions with a kelly marks/ michael peace type person would be a VERY good idea. in the meantime use a chifney bit and wear gloves and a hat- chifneys are often used to control racehorses and stallions- don't be frightened of giving him a really quick, sharp jab in the chops before he's tried to spin on you- this will show him that the chifney can hurt- even my ignorant TB (he's not ignorant most of the time but is a sod to clip/load) respects it! also i;d use a lunge line at all times- that way you can keep hold of him- if necessary, at first, have 2x lunge lines and 2x people...

 

[ginadrummond]

I totally agree with the other posts. It sounds like he has been allowed to form this habit. It is quite bad that he is kicking out though. My hubby's cob does this tanking but would never kick out on his way past. I use a chifney when he does it but please remember it is possible to break a horses jaw when you use one. All horses I have used them in have responded well. Hubby's cob did actually get away from me once with chifney and lunge line but it must have really hurt him cos he never did it again. Sounds worth persevering with though.

 

[Tinypony]

Unless the handler is experienced a chifney etc won't stop this. Whereabouts are you op? I'd just get this sorted by a professional if he's the right one apart from this. Hope you're doing OK, very scarey!

 

[farriersmum]

It's not a cobby 14.2 coloured gelding by any chance? Aged about 6/7?

 

[EquestriVan]

get some prof help, it can be stoppped. But I would never advise a novice to use a chifney, you could make things much worse.

 

[KS1]

This is the problem with a private sale, you have little or no come back but the seller should have been honest with you regards the ponies behaviour.

Please ignore advice on using a chifney, these are very severe bits to use on the wrong hands and as you say your a novice it could go against oyu.

The pony could become more dangerous in avoiding the chifney and you could damage the ponies mouth.

Using two lunge lines and leading with two people is restricting the pony and it does not solve anything with regards you handling the pony on your own.

People are trying to give sound advice but I see some advice IMO is not so good.
The best advice I have read is to get help from an experienced instructor. Someone who can not only teach the pony manners but also one that will help you learn how to handle your pony in a positive way.

The pony needs to learn YOU are the leader here not him, get his respect and your half way there.

The last thing you want to do is turn to gadgets and restraints, these are quick fix methods that don't last.

I know one person who uses a chifney and a chain wrapped around her horses nose when leading and still gets dragged where as I can lead the same horse in a simple headcollar.

If you really like this pony I'd stick with getting an experienced person to help you. Beware though of who you ask for help, many people think they are equine professionals and in fact know very little and could make matters worse.

The good thing here is this is not a difficult thing to sort out and you will have great times with your new pony.

In the meantime, wear gloves, hat and body protector.

 

[better half]

How long have you had the pony as it sounds like a long standing problem and you could send him back. Also why did you have a 'be-nice' on him,
these pressure halter cause more problems and it sounds like he has learnt to run through the pressure which will make him very dangerous. Horses seem to know that these pressure halters are linked to the handler and cause resentment hense the kick out at the handler.

I would be intersesed to see what an RA or KM would do I think they have created horses like this with pressure halter training.

 

[Chobham1]

Have you contacted the seller?

 

[Colleen_Miss_Tom]

Ks1

I agree with you when you say that the OP needs to get an experienced professional on board(not literally) .

As for saying that
"
The last thing you want to do is turn to gadgets and restraints, these are quick fix methods that don't last " ....I'll have to disagree with you, my 4 year old now loads fine after meeting up with Charlie Chifney and we have never looked back, But like I say I agree that the OP does need someone who is experienced in this sort of behavour .

We have a very naughty 14hh cobby type pony at the riding school which did precisely what the op described, It took several weeks of ground work with this pony and teaching him respect, he was an ignorant so and so that had got away with it for far too long . In the end he is learning that he will not get away with it , mr blue pipe was also brought into action .


Op bottom line is .....get an experienced person to come and help you .

Good luck .

 

[better half]

You do have the option to send him back speak to the Citizens Advice it is the same law as if you bought a washing machine. The sooner you start the process the better. Speak to the old owner and stay safe.

 

[Honey08]

This is the problem with a private sale, you have little or no come back but the seller should have been honest with you regards the ponies behaviour.

Please ignore advice on using a chifney, these are very severe bits to use on the wrong hands and as you say your a novice it could go against oyu.

The pony could become more dangerous in avoiding the chifney and you could damage the ponies mouth.

Using two lunge lines and leading with two people is restricting the pony and it does not solve anything with regards you handling the pony on your own.

People are trying to give sound advice but I see some advice IMO is not so good.
The best advice I have read is to get help from an experienced instructor. Someone who can not only teach the pony manners but also one that will help you learn how to handle your pony in a positive way.

The pony needs to learn YOU are the leader here not him, get his respect and your half way there.

The last thing you want to do is turn to gadgets and restraints, these are quick fix methods that don't last.

I know one person who uses a chifney and a chain wrapped around her horses nose when leading and still gets dragged where as I can lead the same horse in a simple headcollar.

If you really like this pony I'd stick with getting an experienced person to help you. Beware though of who you ask for help, many people think they are equine professionals and in fact know very little and could make matters worse.

The good thing here is this is not a difficult thing to sort out and you will have great times with your new pony.

In the meantime, wear gloves, hat and body protector.

Best advice I've read on this thread.

Get someone to help you learn how to handle him. A regular qualified instructor WOULD be capable of helping you, despite what some people on here said!

Don't have the horse on too long a leadrope/lungeline - this puts you right in the kicking zone. You need to stay close to a horse that is kicking out to avoid getting kicked.

As people have said, wear a hat at all times.

Get someone more capable to lead him in the meantime. Its not your fault, and you shouldn't be putting yourself in a position to get hurt until this problem is sorted out. My own horses are good as gold to lead in and out, unless one particular friend does it - they drag her all over just because they know they can and have no respect for her. Yet my young son can handle them without problems and he is much weaker than my friend. Sometimes horses try it on because they don't think that you are the "herd leader" and they don't have to respect you.

Good luck, I hope it works out because it sounds like the rest of your time with the horse is going well. As Diggerbez said, new horses look for oportunities to test you and work out if they are above/below you in the pecking order, and I think this is what he is doing...

Hope you heal soon.xx

 

[Aces_High]

I agree Colleen Miss Tom! Having been bought up with racehorses and worked with them for over 20 years I've never once seen one led or handled either in my care or other professional peoples care with a nose chain and a chiffney. I am shocked that KS1 has mentioned that an associate of hers does this. I still believe that a roller and side reins are a very good preventative and like I said get someone experienced to help if you are novice. A horse can not run through it's shoulder if it's neck is bent the other way. You are also having it in it's normal bridle so if you do jab it in the mouth it's not going to harm his as much. I've seen horses with scarred tongues and bits of tongue missing from being yanked around with chifneys. Not that I'm suggesting you'd do this - but if you don't correct him before he turns his head and goes chifney or no chifney you won't win the battle! I think for this small problem I wouldn't be spending the pounds on getting Kelly Marks etc involved until you've spoken and got the help from an experienced person at your yard or a pal who's maybe had horses for a bit longer. I think he needs a few sharp reminders as to who is boss and then he should be ok. You'll also need to follow suit and show him that you're boss too!

 

[lar]

I haven't really got a solution but I have to disagree with the poster that advised AGAINST a lunge line. IME having them on a lead rope is MORE likely to put you in the kick zone - at least with a lunge line you can get them sufficiently OUT of your space whilst they have their paddy.

This happened to me this week - pony for some reason had a major melt down whilst being led in from the field - bucking and kicking out - luckily I had him on a lunge line so was able to let him go out of my space whilst still being able to keep hold of him. After a couple of minutes of impromptu lungeing I got him back under control and to his stable with no more harm than a few shredded nerves on my part. If he'd only been on a lead rope I would either have been kicked or I would have had to let him go

 

[Weezy]

You say you are now scared of the pony, therefore you do need professional help to sort this out. You cannot do this alone if you are scared and wary, nor is it wise to enlist just anyone.

I would call Richard Maxwell or someone similar ASAP. This behaviour is very dangerous, as you have found out, and I really do think you need someone at the top of their game helping you out. Written advice is all well and good, but you need someone on the ground with you, reading the pony, it is impossible for any of us to give you SOUND advice without watching the pony and the handling of it.

If money is a problem, and I appreciate no one is rolling in it ATM, then contact HORSE magazine - they have a feature that helps people with problem horses, and they may well want to cover your story and have someone out to help you ASAP.

Good luck and stay safe. I would be getting my hands on a polo helmet with a face guard too in the meantime....sounds stupid but it would give you more confidence if you know the horse cannot kick your face.

 

[Starzaan]

I would echo the chifney and lunge line idea - never fails!

 

[Weezy]

I would echo the chifney and lunge line idea - never fails!

You aren't advocating attaching a lunge line to a chifney are you? Each to their own, etc, but this is not something I would ever like to see...v dangerous IMO!

 

[smac]

A lot of advice here and what works for one, doesnt always work for another.

How long have you had the pony? Heading through the legal path may be worth it. As for selling him on, it is possible but you have to be honest about his habits and remember there is always someone who wants to take on a problem but you may take a hit from a money point of view. You say you are attached to the pony but this is a v.nasty habit and one you have to be able to get under control. Be honest about your capabilities this is a long road to head down and owning a pony is meant to be fun!

Im so sorry to hear it hasn't been a smooth time. And the most important thing is make sure you wear hat gloves etc when handling. and get some help

watch the vet/farrier next time they are on the yard, they stay as close to the horse as possible, if you are going to get kicked you want to be as caught as soon as poosible as when the leg gets up it has force and power behind it.

 

[Katkin]

I agree with Weezy. We had a problem with a newly bought pony who would, for no real reason, snatch and run dragging whoever was on the end of the lead rope or holding the reins of the bridle. Luckily she didn't kick out which was a blessing as my 9 yr old daughter was on the receiving end the first couple of times.
In the past I'd consulted a natural horsemanship person who helped me with other issues and I used the techniques he taught to put an end to the behaviour. This was using a simple rope halter (of a good length to put you out of harms way) which tightens when they pull back and releases immediately when they stop pulling. However, the horse has to be taught how this works and includes lots and lots of ground work to establish your leadership on the ground. I would highly recommend seeking out a similar person who can sow the seeds and give you the support you need. Best of luck and don't despair, it is curable.

 

[AmyMay]

In each instance there was nothing obvious that had spooked him (he's not a spooky pony). He goes along really calmly then, totally without warning, pulls sharply to the right, turns to look at you and aims to kick you in the head. It is a very deliberate aim - he knows exactly what he's doing!

Did the vet pick up anything wrong with the horses eyes upon vetting?

Does he do this when led on the right hand side? (which you've presumably done if you've led him out on the road??)

When you lead him ensure you keep him close (close is safe - distance is not) and always wear a hat.

Have you spoken to the vendor about it?

What breeding is he?

And age??

 

[nicknick]

hi just to say thanks for the advice but OP is having trouble posting today but wili get back to you soon. x

 

[NW1]

Post like these are good becuase it shows everyones different techniques of training - whether we agree with each others or not, it shows there are lots of different ways of trying and one will work!

I dont have any additional advice but I do think you should persevere, you may have more knocks and bumps along the way (hopefully not!) but just think how satisfying it will be when you look back at this time in years to come and remember how much of a little bugger your pony WAS and how it was down to YOUR hard work that changed him.

Dont give up - it will be worth it