Advice with bit please.....clueless!

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Chellery1

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Hi there, first off merry xmas and a happy new year.

Right, I have a 17.2 16yr old TB. Hes good as gold and a real gent....although I sometimes feel that he gets abit carried away and I could do with some more brakes.....hes never gone off with me but there has been times in the school when he would not stop cantering...even though it was not a fast canter. He also always likes to be infront and the other week out on the road he trotted past another rider to get to the front and I could not stop him or hold him. luckily no cars were passing!!!! This was the situation that has got me thinking I need to do something.....

So, hes ridden in a french link snaffle with a flash. Im told he has only ever been ridden in this. Any suggestions???? The problem could very well be my riding so im open to suggestions there as well. Hes got a very soft mouth....and im a quiet soft rider although very in-experienced. Any pearls of wisdom guys?

Its been suggested that I use Fulmer snaffle?? I rerally am clueless when it comes to bits etc...

Help!!

Cheers.
 
I think it is quite hard to say without seeing you and the horse as some horses react to certain bits different to others- there are a variety of bits I could suggest but I wouldn't want to cause your horse to have a reaction to the wrong type of bit.

A fulmer will only help with steering it wouldn't have any more breaks than your current bit.

Do you have an experienced friend or an instructor you trust whom you could ask?

Does your horse stick his head up and out when he runs off? or just long and out?
 
WishUponAStar said:
I think it is quite hard to say without seeing you and the horse as some horses react to certain bits different to others- there are a variety of bits I could suggest but I wouldn't want to cause your horse to have a reaction to the wrong type of bit.

A fulmer will only help with steering it wouldn't have any more breaks than your current bit.

Do you have an experienced friend or an instructor you trust whom you could ask?

Does your horse stick his head up and out when he runs off? or just long and out?
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I think he puts his head up....he rides quite high normally anyway. He has no problem with steering. I just use the slightest bit of leg and hes where I want him.

He does open his mouth and show his teeth alot if that means anything.....obviously the flash prevents this.
 
I, like you, am clueless when it comes to bits, having always ridden in snaffles of one sort or another. However, when I bought my Vanner cob 18 months ago I was having terrible problems with him as he was, and is, very strong (as you would expect). I didn't want to go down the strong bit route - ie Pelhams etc - so I asked my instructor for advice. She told me to try him in a Waterford Snaffle, apparently it has the same "soft action" you would expect from a snaffle, but with the multi jointed mouth piece you have much more "braking power".

She lent me hers to try (she uses hers when eventing her pure TB), and it was a miracle!! He went like a dream and I didn't get off with aching shoulders and neck. I bought my own, and 12 months on I have a very soft mouth Vanner Cob who goes on the bit when schooling, but if we have a good gallop out across the fields I have brakes! amazing!

Also read in the HnH that Tina Fletcher swears by them for her strong show jumpers!

Hope that helps ...
 
Vanner said:
I, like you, am clueless when it comes to bits, having always ridden in snaffles of one sort or another. However, when I bought my Vanner cob 18 months ago I was having terrible problems with him as he was, and is, very strong (as you would expect). I didn't want to go down the strong bit route - ie Pelhams etc - so I asked my instructor for advice. She told me to try him in a Waterford Snaffle, apparently it has the same "soft action" you would expect from a snaffle, but with the multi jointed mouth piece you have much more "braking power".

She lent me hers to try (she uses hers when eventing her pure TB), and it was a miracle!! He went like a dream and I didn't get off with aching shoulders and neck. I bought my own, and 12 months on I have a very soft mouth Vanner Cob who goes on the bit when schooling, but if we have a good gallop out across the fields I have brakes! amazing!

Also read in the HnH that Tina Fletcher swears by them for her strong show jumpers!

Hope that helps ...
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That does sound perfect!! I just goggled it to see a pic and it does look rather unusual but maybe its worth a go. Thanks for your advice.

x
 
Waterfords are great but the step before that maybe try a neue schule hanging snaffle

You need to go 1/4 of an inch bigger when you buy neueschule than your normal bit size and 1/2 and inch for a neue schule waterford...... just the way they come up

I thought they were a con the really expensive bits a fad... however my friend with a tack shopgot me to try one and I take it all back the horses love them

:D
 
Chellery1 said:
That does sound perfect!! I just goggled it to see a pic and it does look rather unusual but maybe its worth a go. Thanks for your advice.

x
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they are a wonderful bit, and they are very easy to get hold of and there is nothing mind boggling when you fit them. A marvellous piece of kit, and means you can carry on enjoying your horse without worrying that you have a) fit it right or b) are hurting him with a severe action!!

Good luck!!!
 
Vanner said:
they are a wonderful bit, and they are very easy to get hold of and there is nothing mind boggling when you fit them. A marvellous piece of kit, and means you can carry on enjoying your horse without worrying that you have a) fit it right or b) are hurting him with a severe action!!

Good luck!!!
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Hes got such a soft mouth....would this bit be too harsh on him if hes only been used to his french link. He does have a paddy if anyones is harsh on his mouth!

xx
 
Chellery1 said:
Hes got such a soft mouth....would this bit be too harsh on him if hes only been used to his french link. He does have a paddy if anyones is harsh on his mouth!

xx
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I can only go by my experience and what my instructor told me. All I know is that I rode my cob in a french link snaffle (it was all I had when I bought him!) and now in a Waterford Snaffle. He is very soft mouthed still and it didn't change the way he went at all, just allowed me to enjoy him without hurting all the time trying to "hold him up" in his french link or pooing my pants when my brakes were on the verge of going when out on a hack!!!

Most good saddlers will allow you to try out first, so speak to your supplier!
 
I believe waterfords are more for the strong willed that grab hold of the bit. I'm not sure if it would work on a sensitive mouth. My boy has quite a sensitive mouth and when he went through a stage of tanking off with me we tried this and he just over bent himself to evade it which was worse as I didn't have anything in my hand! I'd perhaps try something with a bit of poll pressure? Do you use a martingale?
 
waterfords can be very harsh as the 'nobbles' of the chain rest on the soft bars of the horse's mouth. Any lateral action on the reins such as circling where the bit could be pulled sideways in the mouth makes it likely that these chain nobbles are going to be pulled over the bars and cause discomfort and in severe cases schooling.
think about having a bit that is not much more than a chain being tugged sideways along your own gums and you'll get the gist of what i mean!

i would never put a horse in a waterford for a novice rider and i wouldnt recommend using one for flat/school work at all either.


if you really must use a waterford id keep it for riding situations where you may lack brakes such as fast hacking. Waterfords were originally meant to work on hard pulling horses that put their heads down and 'fix' against the rider. The idea being that the chain 'breaks' in the mouth when the rider releases the rein giving the horse nothing to lean against. It is a speciality bit.
I wouldnt say a pelham is harsher than a waterford either, especially a straight bar rubber pelham.

A waterford has much more potential for harm in unsympathetic hands.
 
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lula said:
waterfords can be very harsh as the 'nobbles' of the chain rest on the soft bars of the horse's mouth. Any lateral action on the reins such as circling where the bit could be pulled sideways in the mouth makes it likely that these chain nobbles are going to be pulled over the bars and cause discomfort and in severe cases schooling.
think about having a bit that is not much more than a chain being tugged sideways along your own gums and you'll get the gist of what i mean!

i would never put a horse in a waterford for a novice rider and i wouldnt recommend using one for flat/school work at all either.


if you really must use a waterford id keep it for riding situations where you may lack brakes such as fast hacking. Waterfords were originally meant to work on hard pulling horses that put their heads down and 'fix' against the rider. The idea being that the chain 'breaks' in the mouth when the rider releases the rein giving the horse nothing to lean against. It is a speciality bit.
I wouldnt say a pelham is harsher than a waterford either, especially a straight bar rubber pelham.

A waterford has much more potential for harm in unsympathetic hands.
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Righty, I shall give that one a miss then! My friend has leant me a fuller snaffle.....should I bother givin this a go?.

Thanks for you help,
 
lula said:
waterfords can be very harsh as the 'nobbles' of the chain rest on the soft bars of the horse's mouth. Any lateral action on the reins such as circling where the bit could be pulled sideways in the mouth makes it likely that these chain nobbles are going to be pulled over the bars and cause discomfort and in severe cases schooling.
think about having a bit that is not much more than a chain being tugged sideways along your own gums and you'll get the gist of what i mean!

i would never put a horse in a waterford for a novice rider and i wouldnt recommend using one for flat/school work at all either.


if you really must use a waterford id keep it for riding situations where you may lack brakes such as fast hacking. Waterfords were originally meant to work on hard pulling horses that put their heads down and 'fix' against the rider. The idea being that the chain 'breaks' in the mouth when the rider releases the rein giving the horse nothing to lean against. It is a speciality bit.
I wouldnt say a pelham is harsher than a waterford either, especially a straight bar rubber pelham.

A waterford has much more potential for harm in unsympathetic hands.
Click to expand...


Righty, I shall give that one a miss then! My friend has leant me a fulmer snaffle.....should I bother givin this a go?.

Thanks for you help,
 
I wouldn't have thought a fulmer would make any difference at all. Do you have any other to try? I'd perhaps think of hang cheek snaffle also known as a baucher.
 
holeymoley said:
I believe waterfords are more for the strong willed that grab hold of the bit. I'm not sure if it would work on a sensitive mouth. My boy has quite a sensitive mouth and when he went through a stage of tanking off with me we tried this and he just over bent himself to evade it which was worse as I didn't have anything in my hand! I'd perhaps try something with a bit of poll pressure? Do you use a martingale?
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I've never used a martingale with him....I don't think anyone has (I've only had him since September). He does fling his head up for the odd second but I can get it down normally....

This bit business is confusing! My friends leant me a fulmer snaffle??
I don't even know what a French link is for.....to make the salivate more?? Clueless x
 
holeymoley said:
I wouldn't have thought a fulmer would make any difference at all. Do you have any other to try? I'd perhaps think of hang cheek snaffle also known as a baucher.
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Ive nothing else to try but I'm sure I can get hold of pretty much anything and try it.....I just don't know what is out there and how they work! I like how he rides normally...it's just I know if he wanted to take off I couldn't stop him in this bit especially when we're out for fast hacks!. He's got a French link with a flash...do u know what they're for and why he might have been put on that? He never raced and had a dressage background?
 
French links work on the tongue whereas a jointed bit will work on the sides of his mouth, so it depends really what suits him. Is it a loose ring snaffle or eggbutt? It's difficult to tell without seeing the horse but I ld still say a hanging cheek snaffle in a French link.
 
As someone else said, Fulmers have side pieces so will only help with steering. It doesn't sound as if this is your problem. I imagine that this horse doesn't actually like the French link that he is in atm, or he wouldn't need the flash. When horses open their mouths it is almost invariably because they are uncomfortable.
If he isn't comfortable in a French link, it would probably be worth trying a mullen-mouthed bit. These have a gently curving mouth-piece which conform to the mouth's conformation. I used to use a PeeWee bit on a Clydie with a very thick tongue and lips. It looks like a real monstrosity but because the mouth-piece is thinner than most she found it very comfortable and didn't lean on it as she had in the French-link that she was previously ridden in.
Your best way forward, imo, would be to hire a few bits from your local tackshop and try them out.
 
ro be honest from what you'vw written in your OP, and i dont mean to be patronising, is perhaps some lessons.

what makes me say this is that you say you dont feel he is taking off with you, just that you cant stop him so im wondering if you could just learn some techniques to improve your riding

As i said, please do not take offence, im simply reading between the lines of your own posts.

do you have an instructor, cana you get one to help you? I really think this mighjt help you.

a fulmer snaffle has an ordinary single jointed mouthpiece (although can be found with a variety including frenchlink) but has full cheeks on the rings of the snaffle which will help with steering issues as it puts pressure on the side of the face when the opposite rein is used.

it wont help you with brakes.

I would suggest a mullen mouthed rubber pelham but i dont think your problem is really a lack of brakes but more a lack of knowledge of techniques in stopping.
 
lula said:
ro be honest from what you'vw written in your OP, and i dont mean to be patronising, is perhaps some lessons.

what makes me say this is that you say you dont feel he is taking off with you, just that you cant stop him so im wondering if you could just learn some techniques to improve your riding

As i said, please do not take offence, im simply reading between the lines of your own posts.

do you have an instructor, cana you get one to help you? I really think this mighjt help you.

a fulmer snaffle has an ordinary single jointed mouthpiece (although can be found with a variety including frenchlink) but has full cheeks on the rings of the snaffle which will help with steering issues as it puts pressure on the side of the face when the opposite rein is used.

it wont help you with brakes.

I would suggest a mullen mouthed rubber pelham but i dont think your problem is really a lack of brakes but more a lack of knowledge of techniques in stopping.
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I think you are probably very right and I'm having lessons to try and improve....long hard process where I'm concerned lol!

I was considering the hanging cheek French link as it won't be too much of a change and he's had the same French link bit since he was broken......but now someone's suggested the reason he try's to open his mouth a lot is because he finds this uncomfortable! Oh dear.....what a can of worms I've opened!!

Thanks for your advice

Xx
 
Does your instructor ride him? It sounds as though both you and your horse lack a bit of experience and he needs to learn about contact so that the bit is effective and he's not just evading you.
 
Mistlekins said:
Does your instructor ride him? It sounds as though both you and your horse lack a bit of experience and he needs to learn about contact so that the bit is effective and he's not just evading you.
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My horse is 16 and knows what's he's doing....it's all me! I've been riding most of my life but I'm by no means good at all lol! I know i could do with a little more brakes just for my piece of mind. My friends have ridden him and find him too much.....i find him fine. Hes extremely sharpe and forward. He has never bolted or ran off...there has just been a few times its taken longer than normal to get him to slow which can be unsettling on a 17.2 pure TB. I thought a slight change of bit may be the answer...along with my continual improvement of course lol!
 
TBs tend to have thick tongues which don't leave much room in their mouths. If you're not sure, you could ask your dentist about his mouth conformation but definitely the more you tell us aobut your horse, the more it sounds as if he needs a mullen-mouthed bit. NS do many of their bits in different thicknesses.
 
From what you have said I agree with the person who said tryu a mullen mouth.

I would try a mullen mouth hanging cheek - it doesn't sit on the bars and he might prefer the action :)
 
WishUponAStar said:
From what you have said I agree with the person who said tryu a mullen mouth.

I would try a mullen mouth hanging cheek - it doesn't sit on the bars and he might prefer the action :)
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a hanging cheek isnt really going to add any extra brakes though

although there was a huge debate between 2 posters on a recent bitting thread on whether a hanging cheek/baucher snaffle exerts any poll pressure or not.
when one of the posters launched into an essay on the principles of physics to prove their argument i rather tuned out so not sure what the resulting conclusion was on that one ;)

if it does give a slight poll action a hanging cheek snaffle might be worth a try,. otherwise, it'll be no different than a plain mullen mouth snaffle abeit with slightly better steering given by the hanging cheek.
 
It won't provide any extra breaks in that sense you are right (i'm the no poll action brigade ;)) however they do sit quite different and in my experience do have a different effect on horses to the looserings/eggbutts.

My little mare won't take a contact forward at all in a hanging cheek, she hates the action where it "hangs" in the mouth rather than sitting over the bars the same :)
 
I was waiting for the whole hanging cheek poll action thing to start. Personally I think there is a bit of a stronger action in some way or the other. I used this with my boy when we started dressage as he found it all a bit exciting and it definitely made him listen to me more.
 
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