Advice

[leanda]

First of all £70/month is amazing - i pay £70/week for my 2 at livery!!!

And as others have already said - sheep are EXCELLENT at restoring grazing! They eat all the rubbish up, and convert it into little ready-made/evenly distributed fertilizer pellets

If your YO was going to have to pay a contractor to do the same work the sheep will, I'd expect your rent to double, and you'd still have to rest the fields for the same length of time, possibly more because the ground would have to be ok to drive the machinery on, which in the UK climate, is not always easy to plan!

Your YO does seem very sensible imo!

That's for DIY grass livery only...Its a small private yard, its a friend that rents it from a family friend but I call her the YO out of politeness really...

Had she had made the comments about keeping the sheep to all of us we'd have been lass annoyed...

 

[Natch]

I'm glad you feel happier about it. At £16 per week most of us would expect a basic field, no field shelter, no tap let alone automatic water and presumably storage, a dry standing area to tie up on, etc. 6 horses living out 24/7 on 5 acres WILL push the grazing past it's capacity, especially after the winter we've just had, and it was very sensible of them to ask you to move to other fields for a while to let the land recover, and I'm not surprised at all that as a result of you choosing to stay more restrictions needed to be put in place. Having to use a hosepipe to fill a water trough and a lack of a field shelter seems like very little to complain about. Do the horses even use your field shelter most horses ignore them unless they are fed in there in winter, and only use it to keep out of the sun and flies in the summer.

All your YO (yard manager may be a more appropriate term ) has done is to act in the best long term interests of the land, and to offer help to somebody in need. There may be a time in the future when YOU are the person in need, so let's hope somebody is willing to help you out if you ever needed help as the sheep farmer did, and that their other liveries are understanding and can see the benefits.

 

[RunToEarth]

The farmer has nothing to with the yard...It was the YO who said he was going to get one as he broke it... I just want what I normally get for my money the same as what I have got the past 3 years...It wasn't compulsory to move fields, in fact she said we either all go or none of us go... 4 moved of, 2 of us stayed...

You just reminded me why we gave up doing livery, you sound like a nightmare.

 

[leanda]

I'm glad you feel happier about it. At £16 per week most of us would expect a basic field, no field shelter, no tap let alone automatic water and presumably storage, a dry standing area to tie up on, etc. 6 horses living out 24/7 on 5 acres WILL push the grazing past it's capacity, especially after the winter we've just had, and it was very sensible of them to ask you to move to other fields for a while to let the land recover, and I'm not surprised at all that as a result of you choosing to stay more restrictions needed to be put in place. Having to use a hosepipe to fill a water trough and a lack of a field shelter seems like very little to complain about. Do the horses even use your field shelter most horses ignore them unless they are fed in there in winter, and only use it to keep out of the sun and flies in the summer.

All your YO (yard manager may be a more appropriate term ) has done is to act in the best long term interests of the land, and to offer help to somebody in need. There may be a time in the future when YOU are the person in need, so let's hope somebody is willing to help you out if you ever needed help as the sheep farmer did, and that their other liveries are understanding and can see the benefits.

...its not so much what she has done its the way that she did it, I'm not the only one to feel this, the girls have all expressed the same...When you've been on the same yard for several years then all of a sudden there a changes without even a mention...

Just a simple: look girls I'm looking after the farmers sheep and they will help the land ready for summer...That is all I don't think that was would have been too much to ask...The girls that moved off are desperate to come back because of their restrictions where they are and there's hardly any grass...

I was feeding in the field shelter but their its now cover with sheep poo and our hay nets for there hay lol...

 

[leanda]

You just reminded me why we gave up doing livery, you sound like a nightmare.

Some people can be so rude, it was advice I wanted not rude peoples comments...Actually I'm often told that I am the best yarder as I do more that most up their, pulling ragwort, sorting the muck pile, generally cleaning around the yard, never have to be chased for my rent, feed 5 horses in winter time ... I do it for the welfare of the horses and not for general gain too...Without me it would be left to the YO/YM/friend who rents the yard...

 

[justabob]

I agree with RTE. Life is all about compromise OP

 

[Natch]

...its not so much what she has done its the way that she did it, I'm not the only one to feel this, the girls have all expressed the same...When you've been on the same yard for several years then all of a sudden there a changes without even a mention...

Just a simple: look girls I'm looking after the farmers sheep and they will help the land ready for summer...That is all I don't think that was would have been too much to ask...The girls that moved off are desperate to come back because of their restrictions where they are and there's hardly any grass...

I was feeding in the field shelter but their its now cover with sheep poo and our hay nets for there hay lol...

I can understand that you feel miffed that YM didn't keep you informed, but it's really not a biggie. Perhaps try counting your blessings that you have a YM who cares about maintaining the grazing, and hasn't increased rent in 3+ years, despite water rates, insurance, electricity, fertiliser, diesel, land rent, National Minimum Wage, cost of living etc etc all rising plenty in that time

 

[pip6]

If she is in charge then I don't see why she has to spend time justifying her actions. Okay your nose is out of joint because sheep 'appeared' where you wanted to graze. Intentional or not, you are the one (or rather yours horses) who will benefit from them being there. Lucky added bonus for you. You were told the fields needed rest, & you've got fertiliser, flattening, weed control & worm control all in as well. Appreciate it.

Yes if you'd had to pay extra for other grazing (as in forced to move) I would also be discussing a reduction in rent. However, you were allowed to stay & as you don't have a contract you have no recourse to complain. Maybe it would be worth in the summer (when feelings are calmer) to suggest drawing up a contract so next winter you know exactly what you can get in return for your livery money? Can't change what is, it's just upsetting you dwelling on it. All you can do is sort what will happen in the future. Consol yourself in that your horse will apperciate the better paddocks in the summer. As for sheep muck on the floor, take & barrow & clean it up if it bothers you. You may not feel it should be down to you, but sometimes life is more productive (& less antagonistic) if you just get on & sort a problem rather than complain/worry that there is a problem.

 

[[69117]]

I'm sorry but I really don't see an issue. I put sheep across my winter grazing in the summer to sort out the grass - they do a better job than any machinery.

You chose to stay, and so if you were unhappy with the terms she gave for you staying then I would have either had a word with her, or decided to move to the other field.

Nobody has any grass at the moment unless they haven't had horses out all winter. I chose to turn my horses and my liveries out all day every day throughout the winter and sacrifice the land as it will recover. I have been haying in the field for most of the winter, and there really isn't a scrap of good grass left in any of my winter grazing. I would rather the horses were out and able to move around and munch hay all day, than standing in their boxes. I won't move horses to my summer grazing until the clocks change - if I moved them any earlier I would run out of grass in the summer and have to hay in the fields, which isn't something I want to do in August!

She sounds like she is being responsible and taking care of her land.

 

[BigBuck's]

When you've been on the same yard for several years then all of a sudden there a changes without even a mention...

Presumably because this previous winter (and the summer/autumn leading up to it) have been wetter than ever which has necessitated changes that weren't needed previously?

It's immaterial whether the YM's primary impulse was to help the farmer out rather than benefit the fields. The fact is it WILL benefit the paddocks, massively so. Short-term pain for long-term gain.

I'm not sure if you appreciate how lucky you are compared to so many other horse owners OP, and that is making you come across as self-entitled. You are paying a pittance (in relative terms) for year-round grass livery, at a time most YOs have placed major restrictions on turnout or stopped it altogether. You were offered a choice of moving or staying when many people have had no such choice; changes to the set-up of many yards over this last winter have been enforced, like it or lump it. Now you have one of the best ecologically-sound methods of pasture management in action on your summer grazing and you're complaining because you weren't consulted beforehand.

Take a step back, think about what you've still got, re-read your posts and try to see objectively how you're coming across, and that might help explain why some of the responses have been less than 100% sympathetic.

And if after all that you still don't like it, vote with your feet.

 

[[69117]]

Presumably because this previous winter (and the summer/autumn leading up to it) have been wetter than ever which has necessitated changes that weren't needed previously?

It's immaterial whether the YM's primary impulse was to help the farmer out rather than benefit the fields. The fact is it WILL benefit the paddocks, massively so. Short-term pain for long-term gain.

I'm not sure if you appreciate how lucky you are compared to so many other horse owners OP, and that is making you come across as self-entitled. You are paying a pittance (in relative terms) for year-round grass livery, at a time most YOs have placed major restrictions on turnout or stopped it altogether. You were offered a choice of moving or staying when many people have had no such choice; changes to the set-up of many yards over this last winter have been enforced, like it or lump it. Now you have one of the best ecologically-sound methods of pasture management in action on your summer grazing and you're complaining because you weren't consulted beforehand.

Take a step back, think about what you've still got, re-read your posts and try to see objectively how you're coming across, and that might help explain why some of the responses have been less than 100% sympathetic.

And if after all that you still don't like it, vote with your feet.

Very well said!

 

[leanda]

Very well said!

Well we are all entitled to our own opinions...

I think its 50/50 tbh...

I have come to terms the sheep, had it been put to us like some of the posts we would have appreciated it a lot more...

The others want to move back on but now can't so they aren't amused either...

I'll park it and move on now ...

 

[leanda]

I can understand that you feel miffed that YM didn't keep you informed, but it's really not a biggie. Perhaps try counting your blessings that you have a YM who cares about maintaining the grazing, and hasn't increased rent in 3+ years, despite water rates, insurance, electricity, fertiliser, diesel, land rent, National Minimum Wage, cost of living etc etc all rising plenty in that time

Thank you...

It's a very small private yard that is rented by them but there aren't really any over heads we all "muck in" tbh...

 

[leanda]

I agree with RTE. Life is all about compromise OP

Yes we certainly have had to compromise...

 

[leanda]

If she is in charge then I don't see why she has to spend time justifying her actions. Okay your nose is out of joint because sheep 'appeared' where you wanted to graze. Intentional or not, you are the one (or rather yours horses) who will benefit from them being there. Lucky added bonus for you. You were told the fields needed rest, & you've got fertiliser, flattening, weed control & worm control all in as well. Appreciate it.

Yes if you'd had to pay extra for other grazing (as in forced to move) I would also be discussing a reduction in rent. However, you were allowed to stay & as you don't have a contract you have no recourse to complain. Maybe it would be worth in the summer (when feelings are calmer) to suggest drawing up a contract so next winter you know exactly what you can get in return for your livery money? Can't change what is, it's just upsetting you dwelling on it. All you can do is sort what will happen in the future. Consol yourself in that your horse will apperciate the better paddocks in the summer. As for sheep muck on the floor, take & barrow & clean it up if it bothers you. You may not feel it should be down to you, but sometimes life is more productive (& less antagonistic) if you just get on & sort a problem rather than complain/worry that there is a problem.

She didn't have to justify it, she offered to look after the sheep and now they are a priority, I've learnt a lot from this post more that what was explained or not as the case may be...

No I will not be cleaning up the sheep pop lol...
Its a shame we have had to all shut up and put up.

 

[AmyMay]

Thank you...

It's a very small private yard that is rented by them but there aren't really any over heads we all "muck in" tbh...

So do you all pay for fencing, insurance, building maintenance, field management? And chip in on the business rates also?

 

[leanda]

So do you all pay for fencing, insurance, building maintenance, field management? And chip in on the business rates also?

Its not that sort of yard, its private...No business rates, no insurance, no building maintenance...They rent if off a friend, who comes to clear the muck heap twice a year...If any repairs need doing our hubby's do it...Mines rather handy as he's a carpenter...

 

[AmyMay]

Its not that sort of yard, its private...No business rates, no insurance, no building maintenance...They rent if off a friend, who comes to clear the muck heap twice a year...If any repairs need doing our hubby's do it...Mines rather handy as he's a carpenter...

A business is being run = business rates must be paid.

Public Liability insurance = a legal requirements

If for no other reason than lack of Insurance, move as soon as possible.

 

[leanda]

A business is being run = business rates must be paid.

Public Liability insurance = a legal requirements

If for no other reason than lack of Insurance, move as soon as possible.

Really? Her partner rents the yard off a family friend, we pay our rent and she hands it over to who owns the yard each month...I suppose really that she isn't the YO maybe an YM by default really...

The partner did say one year that if anything happened to us up the yard ( not as a result of the horses as we have own insurance) that they could get sued as they have no public liability insurance??

I have learned a lot from the posts about the sheep and the benefits now but it went from looking after a couple in the barn that had lambed early to the whole herd/flock?... lol. I don't mean to come across all bitter its just how we feel/felt at the time......

I have fed back to the other yarder some of the feedback about the positives and do appreciate the good advice...I'll certainky be more prepared next winter lol

 

[AmyMay]

Really? Her partner rents the yard off a family friend, we pay our rent and she hands it over to who owns the yard each month...I suppose really that she isn't the YO maybe an YM by default really...

Well someone needs to be paying business rates - probably the 'partner' and the yard owners.

The partner did say one year that if anything happened to us up the yard ( not as a result of the horses as we have own insurance) that they could get sued as they have no public liability insurance??

They need insurance against any type of accident on the yard - regardless of whether it's caused by a horse or something else. Their lack of insurance leaves the liveries vulnerable - as it does them.

 

[leanda]

Well someone needs to be paying business rates - probably the 'partner' and the yard owners.



They need insurance against any type of accident on the yard - regardless of whether it's caused by a horse or something else. Their lack of insurance leaves the liveries vulnerable - as it does them.

Oh I see... The liveries being us then...So if I injure my back pushing a barrow of muck up a plank onto the muck or trip and injure myself pushing the barrow down the field, that sort of thing?

So the man who owns the yard needs to pay then?

 

[RunToEarth]

This is where small private yards doing things on the sly get tripped up. OP you have just admitted that the yard you are on do not pay business rates and have no PI - I would look to getting this thread removed, you never know who is reading.

 

[Polos Mum]

I'd be amazed if a farm didn't have some kind of public liability - we will all have public liabilty on our home insurance.

If a burgler breaks into your house and trips over a broken stair they can sue you for their injuries - even though they have absolutely no right to be there.

All my local farmer friends have huge public liabilty for people that wander ramdonly into the farm yard and could fall in things, get run over by things etc.

If you'r einviting liveries into their yard, and charging you for that they would have no defence if you made a claim (at least with a burgler I'd argue he shouldn't have been there and a court might see in my favour!)

 

[leanda]

This is where small private yards doing things on the sly get tripped up. OP you have just admitted that the yard you are on do not pay business rates and have no PI - I would look to getting this thread removed, you never know who is reading.

I wasn't aware they should be paying rates etc, I'm just being honest...The insurance came up in conversation last summer with the partner...

 

[leanda]

I'd be amazed if a farm didn't have some kind of public liability - we will all have public liabilty on our home insurance.

If a burgler breaks into your house and trips over a broken stair they can sue you for their injuries - even though they have absolutely no right to be there.

All my local farmer friends have huge public liabilty for people that wander ramdonly into the farm yard and could fall in things, get run over by things etc.

If you'r einviting liveries into their yard, and charging you for that they would have no defence if you made a claim (at least with a burgler I'd argue he shouldn't have been there and a court might see in my favour!)

I see, gosh lots of people come on to see the animals, the last couple of years they had piglets and no end of visitors, this year its lambs grrrr lol...

I've had a few things damaged and broken which I guess was part of being there?

 

[Polos Mum]

It's not so much things as breaking people, if someone falls over something on a yard and is unable to walk again the costs awarded would be several million.

Hence why BHS public liabilty is £20 million - if my horse gets on the road and causes an accident in which 4 or five people are killed/ perminanetly injured my bill could easily be in the £10 million + range

 

[1stclassalan]

I've never had any confrontational issues with Y.O.'s no matter how stupid, egotistical, ill mannered, ignorant or illiterate they may have been - hope you get my drift!

I've also been on yards with a huge list of rules and one's with no rules at all but in each an every case I've insisted on being told EXACTLY what they expected from me and either adapted or left.

I've rarely spooked a Y.O. by a direct question - like what are you going to do about the terrible mud? However; before the winter rains, I might have said something along the lines of So&so farm has already closed some paddocks and you should hear the flippin' liveries! Bloggs equine has some liveries complaining after they harrowed with the horses out - couple of them are suing for injuries ( that usually ensured I was warned well in advance). Hay's going to be dear this year - you could get a good few bales off before turn out if you could do with some extra ( prompting, an "oh, I don't think that's necessary").

 

[leanda]

It's not so much things as breaking people, if someone falls over something on a yard and is unable to walk again the costs awarded would be several million.

Hence why BHS public liabilty is £20 million - if my horse gets on the road and causes an accident in which 4 or five people are killed/ perminanetly injured my bill could easily be in the £10 million + range

So if my horses got out for some reason and caused an accident ( I have horse and rider insurance) would I be responsible or the yard? Sorry this is a bit new to me, its never been explained before...

 

[Polos Mum]

I'm not clear - hence why I have insurance on my property and BHS third party cover which covers all horses I own/ in my care/ I am riding or handling.

I'd guess if you horse caused an accident and you didn't have sufficient insurance once they'd bankrupted you they'd move on to the yard owner and try and claim the YO was negligent in fencing (or whatever it was that caused your horse to get out)

Insurance companies will go after the people with the deepest pockets.

More to the point if you have a preventable accident on thier premises and are paralised for life you can sue your YO but if they are uninsured you might get a little but not the £million's you'd need for lifetime care

 

[leanda]

I've never had any confrontational issues with Y.O.'s no matter how stupid, egotistical, ill mannered, ignorant or illiterate they may have been - hope you get my drift!

I've also been on yards with a huge list of rules and one's with no rules at all but in each an every case I've insisted on being told EXACTLY what they expected from me and either adapted or left.

I've rarely spooked a Y.O. by a direct question - like what are you going to do about the terrible mud? However; before the winter rains, I might have said something along the lines of So&so farm has already closed some paddocks and you should hear the flippin' liveries! Bloggs equine has some liveries complaining after they harrowed with the horses out - couple of them are suing for injuries ( that usually ensured I was warned well in advance). Hay's going to be dear this year - you could get a good few bales off before turn out if you could do with some extra ( prompting, an "oh, I don't think that's necessary").

Good point... I'll be more prepared next winter for sure... Thank you!!