Advise for leading - I am at a loss!!

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browbrow

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Poppy has neve been 100% to lead - most of which I can cope with but on saturday it was a joke - I took her to the field at around 4pm so she could have an hours turn out - I put her bridle on (dont dare use just a halter) - my dad was with me aswell - and I have never seen anything like it - she was plunging around - bucking ,skipping, jumping about - nearly doin cartwheels!!! At the time I thought I was funny as she wasnt really pulling and you could tell she was excited but its really shaken me up as it was so dangourous . My dad was so shocked and couldnt believe how bad she was - he said I was eith er brave or stupid to put up with that!!

She is really good in every other way - 100% ride and good in stable 100% with vet and farrier etc .....

I have tried so many things now but she is getting worse and worse.

so far the things I have tired .....

Having a piece of carrot to keep her occupied (she just bullies you for it)
Having the chain of the leadrope around her nose and pull it tight when she starts (makes no difference )
Leading in the bridle (after saturday shows no improvement)
Had the chain/rope in her mouth and pulled tight (no difference)
Alcathene pipe (What a waste of time)
Had two big blokes lead her one from each side and really hold her (no difference)
Ride her to the field - (been loads better but thats not a solution for other people who have to turn her out
had one of those halter things with a long line (joke)
Tried this metal headcollar thing that is metel on the face- so they feel like they are walking into metal (no joy)
The minute she starts messing about I turn around and walk back to the stable and start all over again to see if she gets bored (makes her more wound up)
Tried the bullying tactics but nothing is working!
Tried natural horsemanship - (thought It was one big joke and totally disrespected the person doing it with her although wasnt too bad with me but hasnt made any difference).
Tried super calm supplements - not one made a difference!

She is even worse with another horse nearby - it sets her off even more! I am always really strict with her - If she tries to run off I never let go of the rope - unless I 100% have to, I am in no way scared of her at all but I know one day if she carries on - she will hurt someone.

I am going to try a chifney - but not sure how to use it but I just want her to behave!! I really dont no what to do now - I am totally lost!

She has a clean bill of health - no back or bit problems - she just gets wound up - she has two hay nets a day - no hard feed to make her fizzy - she is just an ignorant pig!!

I am a very confident handler - I am not soft on her at all but I really dont know what else to do!! She is a welsh x adn is very firey but she is taking the mick!!!

Any other suggestions - Please Please help as sometimes I need others to turn her out and no one will!! xxx
 
Groundwork in the school? lots of stopping, backing up,walking quietly, rewarding her for doing so, she will be less excitable in there as she isnt going out into the field, and you can start instilling some manners!
 
Hello

We do lots of work int he school with her as I want to take her to in hands shows as she is beautiful - she behaves ok in the school - defo more manners and knows what to do still pisses about to the field tho - even when I am leading her to the other side of the yard to be ridden/shod she is good!

and the daft thing is she is 100% to catch - youcan catch her after 5 mins of being in the field and she will plod in ! ?
 
Hello

due to being prone to lami only an hour a day and 4 hours saturday and 4 sunday but she didnt get any in the winter as the winter fields were awful and as soon as she went out she wanted to come back in.

She is ridden about four times a week.
 
No wonder she is so excited if she only gets an hour a day, poor thing, can't say I blame her TBH, sorry if that's not what you want to hear.

Do you hold her tight the whole of the time or is she allowed to walk beside you on a loose rein with your arm giving to her> We had one a bit like that, if you held him rigid he would explode but if you give and take, he'd only jog beside you, a vast improvement.

But please, give her more turnout, put a muzzle on her if need be but she needs to go out to relax and let off steam especially if you don't work her a lot.
 
Agree with MFH - lack of turnout is your problem. Any horse with such limited turnout is going to be a bit exciteable. Either get her a muzzle or fence off an area for her.
 
Yep, your problem is lack of turnout. Some horses can cope with such a restricted lifestyle, but it sounds like she can't. So she's sort of being set up to fail from the start. She gets really excited and happy about going out, and as a result she gets severe treatment (I know you have to do this to become safe!), even being taken back towards the stable... she's just getting more and more wound up.
Sometimes with a problem like this you need to deal with the cause, not the symptoms. Devices like pressure halters and things with metal in them just deal with the symptoms.
Can you turn her out on sparse grazing? Can you use a grazing muzzle? I think you need to think laterally around this problem because you have a very stressed horse.
p.s. You say the natural horsemanship didn't work... that would again possibly be because you were trying to treat the symptom rather than cause. Or it could also be because of the "NH trainer" - there are a lot of NH wannabees out there giving the whole idea a bad name through their lack of skill and experience.
 
Hello

the yard will not let me have a small area fenced off and she has had a muzzle on before and it drove her so wild she threw heself all over the place - it was that bad that I wouldnt even leave it on for her to get used to it. she was so upset by it - I have been trying to get her to weat it for a few minute at a time in the stable but she just goes mad - poor thing :-( .

I am really stuck for turnout as the yard is brilliant but the grazing is just too good! She is 13.3 and I want her in the pony field with the other ponies as they are all a cheeky lot which I think she would love but YO say no - she isnt bossy in anyway so I dont know why they wont.

I keep her on a loose rein most of the time as it helps but she will do a runner if she feels really loose - and the yard is so busy - safety is paramont.
 
If you really cannot muzzle her or restrict her grazing then you should seriously find another yard. Your horse is telling you in no uncertain terms that she is desperately unhappy.
 
Without being rude, how old are you and how old is she, also how long have you had her, what did she do before you had her? Sorry for the questions but it will help give us a better picture.
 
sounds like pure bad manners to me..I realise that turnout could be a factor in this but if she's learnt to behave when being ridden then she can learn when being led too. What is she like to lead anywhere else?
I would start leading her out to the field everyday but going straight past and then back again. As many times as it takes for her to learn some respect. Can you lunge or work her before she goes out?
 
No she isnt uhappy at all - I am 100% confident that its not the turnout thats the complete root cause as when she gets away from people who are leading her she runs back to her stable or runs to the the indoor school to see whats going on! with her tail held high and ears pricked!!

The natural horse person was really good - she is quite well known - and isnt a wannabe !

She has lots of stimulation - toys - gets two visits a day - gets walked about etc - gets schooled by YO twice a week - lunged twice - ridden by me 3/5 times.

I do wish she did have more turnout at the moment to be fair tho but its how it goes - the other yard in the area are scrap yards and I love were we are and so does she.

she is very happy in herself - we have tons of fun together and we are a real team - this really is more of a respect thing than anything.

in march she had all day turn out 9-5 for four weeks and was still a monster!!
 
Without wishing to be rude, you may love the yard you are currently at, but your pony's behaviour says otherwise. Horses are designed to live outside 24/7, anything else is techincally unnatural. Most horses get used to being in a stable, but your horse needs more turnout. Sadly, giving her attention is no subsitute for her just being able to be a horse. If she is hard to lead, could she be getting too much feed?
 
Hello

Thanks - I agree with you - as she is 100% to ride !! I do think she knows her strenght

And just to answer the other question - I am 23 years old - she has just gone five - so is bound to be full of it (to an extent).

I have had her for 7 months - know all her previous owners - she has always been a diva to be led apparently.

I have has horses for about 5 years - she is not my first horse and I have had naughty horses in the past like this and got sorted in the end - but she is taking a while!!!

I like the idea of walking up and down to the field - thats good . The thing is aswell is that I will never give up on her - so I have a lifetime to try and get her to improve as she is the best pony ever! even when she is doing it its like she is trying to make me laugh ( i know it doesnt help). When she skips about - I laugh and make her stand and she is really good for abit and then she does it again - and I try to not laugh but I swear she knows I think its funny!
When I let her go in the field she never bombs off she just ambles off and eats.

Thanks for the help.
 
I completely disagree. The behaviour you describe is not that of a happy horse.
Yes you may well be able to force her into submission with your metal halters and chifneys but you will only be glossing over the cracks.
 
I would be inclined to find a more suitable turnout arrangement for your little horse at another yard. It really won't do keeping the poor thing confined like this - and at 5 you are storing up enormous problems for the future.

Put her welfare before yourself. If you can't do that - find something that either is not prone to laminitis and can be turned out, or is happy to be shut up in a stable for 23 hours a day. Your lack of insight is concerning......

Let's face it - horses are not really that difficult to keep - and most of the problems we have are created by us. It's not rocket science really.
 
OMG - I am not trying to force her into anything - I hate the idea of using a chifney bit - it looks awful !!! I f I told poopy that I was trying to make her submit - she woudl laugh if she could!!

The thing is - she will get 24/7 turnout when most of the grass has been eaten away and will get to go out more and more each day eventually.

Please note that this problem has been going on for a while - I bought her off some friends who kept her out 24/7 and she was still very strong - this is why they sold her on as she was a childs pony and it was too dangourous for a kid but something like this isnt going to put me off her as she is so good!!

P.S - she gets turned out into the school for an hour a day and just stands by the gate.
 
We have a 13.3hh Welsh PB mare, so to some extent I can sympathise! They are very clever, and it seems she has got to know that she has the upper hand with leading. I would go right back to basics. Look at what you are feeding her, as she is probably the sort who needs next to nothing. Then, when you are leading, every time she mucks about, turn back and start again. Keep doing that until she walks quietly. Do this when you have plenty of time, and do it every time. Eventually she will get bored and behave. Eventually... (Always wear a hat and gloves when leading, if you don't already).
 
Given her age and history of being strong I would invest in the chifney and a lunge line for leading out. She knows she is strong and no amount of you being nice will change her attitude (as you say she has a history). You need to make her understand that this is Not acceptable behaviour. Wear hat and gloves and be prepared to invest time in this but you will get a battle. She is obviously an opinionated mare when it comes to being led at home and Im afraid your opinion is more important than hers.

I would also find somewhere else to keep her tbh, she sounds as though she isnt happy being out where you are (hence the running back to the stable or the arena), and it really is unfair to ask her to stay in for 23 hours a day and then be relaxed and well mannered when you want to do something with her.
 
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Tried natural horsemanship - (thought It was one big joke and totally disrespected the person doing it with her

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Then you weren't using a good NH trainer. I have been round this a while, and the good trainers will get a horse's attention regardless of how distracted or stressed they start off.
Reading your post I can't help but feel that you are looking at all of this from a human point of view, and putting human emotions and thought processes on to your horse. When a horse lacks socialisation (ie restricted turnout, often also alone) they do all sorts of wierd things. Yes, they do get confused and run back to the stable (where they expect to find company), they get unsettled and run all over the place.
I suppose my thoughts would be that what you are doing obviously doesn't work, so you'll need to try something else. My suggestion would be regular long periods of turnout (daily at least 7 hours) in the company of a small and stable group of horses.
 
"the yard will not let me have a small area fenced off and she has had a muzzle on before and it drove her so wild she threw heself all over the place - it was that bad that I wouldnt even leave it on for her to get used to it"

in which case you need to change yards to one where they will let you have a small paddock or use electric fencing to make a small paddock (poss in a field with others where she can say hello over the fence).
 
Thanks Spaniel and Sooty - advice is very much appretiated.

I have had some really good ideas Pm'd to me - so thanks to that person.

The natural horsemanship in my opinion is just another method that some people like and some dont - I like practising it with pops - we have fun but it hasnt helped with the leading .

I will really push for more turnout but like I have said before - she has had plenty of it in the pastand still acts like a loon.

One thing I do think is making it worse is that its a 10 min walk to the paddock - passing lots of different horses and grass - if I let her take her time and let her graze at the edges of the paddocks on the way up she is dead calm but was worried that this could be deemed as bad habits> she never pulls for the grass I just let her pick her way up and then move her on and she happily obliges should I let her do this?
 
Is her tum fairly full with hay just prior to you leading her out? I have had a similar problem in the past....being dragged to the nearest patch of green en route to the field!


What worked for me was to put a big pile of hay in the stable and wait until the yard had gone quiet before leading the horse out. It took the edge of her a bit plus there were fewer distractions. I actually think it would help you initially to allow a few picks as she wanders but you need to be sure that you arent being held in one place - you must dictate where and when she nibbles.
 
Yes she is normally empty and I really think there is something in this!!! I am going to try it tonight. I pick and choose where she eats so she isnt dictating where she eats etc. thanks - you are much more pro active than alot of people on here - and very helpful!! Brow xxx
 
Could she be lonely and missing company? This can often make them quite inclined to rush towards the nearest available horse.
I'm having a similarly exciting time leading my horse (on box rest post surgery)....she nearly got away this morning....and I reckon she's missing her mates.
Good luck.
S :-)
 
Not sure - its something I have thought about although she is more of a person pony than a pony pony.

She is on a big yard and all the ponies on her block are kept in alot at the mo as they all are a bit lami - so she has company although I know this is no subsitute for real pony interaction ina field

Thanks - and good luck to you too!
 
I echo what everyone else has told you, it is way too little turnout for her, and you really should put that muzzle back on.
Of course she will throw herself about and try to scrape it off, but start in the stable and just keep putting it on again.
You need to ignore any nonsense about her getting stressed, it's far worse leaving her inside to be honest.
Get an adult to lead her out in a chiffney. be careful as it's a very serious piece of kit, and do not jerk hard on it at any time, more a gentle twitch of the hand to reprimand bad behaviour. If she bombs off however use it to pull her to sideways halt and do not let her do that again.
Be careful removing it as they can spin and bolt off hurting their mouths.
We had one who was a master at bolting through gateways, in the end my husband used two headcollares, two lunge lines and tied them to the gatepost before attempting to walk the horse through on a leadrope, when it took off it was hauled to a stop but that is dangerous, so don't try it! (it worked however..) two gos at running off foiled it stopped trying.
In your case however it's plainly your management that's causing the problem, so get that muzzle on and stop being so daft with her, she will get used to it in the end if you are firm.
Also make sure you wear gloves and a hat to turn her out won't you?
 
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