Advise from experienced trainers please (French Trotter)

[[142807]]

Firstly I think it’s important that I explain that I’m not a novice owner so the answers are not aimed at a beginner. I am a BHS I so have that level of experience. My problem is that I have recently rescued an ex Trotter with some severe issues. I have had ex trotters before and retrain them to saddle. This one is 14 years of age and in the stable is fine and around the yard is fine. Were I live in the world we do not have fields and large turnout areas so everything is usually done on the roads in a sulky, so no point suggesting turning away as no where to turn away to. The issue with this one is when he’s walked out in hand he is ok for about 10 minutes then he totally loses it. He will rear, spin, be bulshy, shy at everything in sight, try to barge you out the way ect, he is just as bad when ridden, does not play up so much in a sulky as pushed forward.
I am the last chance saloon for this chap but have met my match. Maybe I’m missing something or maybe he’s just a bad apple which I can’t quite get my head around. Like I said 10 minutes out and it starts. Any ideas? Just to clarify vet has checked him out, tack fits ect. This is a behavioural issue.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

What health/veterinary checks has he had?

 

[Tiddlypom]

So he gets no turn out at all?

 

[[142807]]

What health/veterinary checks has he had?

So he gets no turn out at all?

So he gets no turn out at all?

Hello, checked for all the usual and no lameness just typical scrapes from trot racing. This is trot racing country so they are not wrapped in cotton wool, all work done on roads so literally bomb proof in traffic ect.

 

[[142807]]

So he gets no turn out at all?

Turned out in small sand paddock daily for at least 5 hours. Stables also have turn out attached to them so can walk in and out of that area as well. Can touch other horses.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

What does 'the usual' mean?

Trotted up?
Bone scan?
X-rays?
Scoped for ulcers?
Teeth checked?
Tack checked?
Blood tested?

 

[[142807]]

What does 'the usual' mean?

Trotted up?
Bone scan?
X-rays?
Scoped for ulcers?
Teeth checked?
Tack checked?
Blood tested?

yes checked for ulcers, blood tests carried out. Tack fits, teeth rasped. This is a behavioural issue so looking for answers regarding his behaviour.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

In my experience there is almost always, a physical issue at the root of so called 'behavioural issues' and where there isn't, it is highly likely that it just hasn't been found yet. To fix the behaviour you therefore need to go deeper with the physical investigations, maybe send the horse to an equine specialist for a full work up with scans, x-rays etc...

It may be possible to bully the horse into behaving, but things invariably fall apart again because the physical issue is still there.

 

[[142807]]

In my experience there is almost always, a physical issue at the root of so called 'behavioural issues' and where there isn't, it is highly likely that it just hasn't been found yet. To fix the behaviour you therefore need to go deeper with the physical investigations, maybe send the horse to an equine specialist for a full work up with scans, x-rays etc...

It may be possible to bully the horse into behaving, but things invariably fall apart again because the physical issue is still there.

Thank you for your answer.

 

[[142807]]

Thank you for your answer.

Certainly no bullying involved and this is definitely behavioural, but thank you for your input.

 

[Nt9]

Hi, is he the same in the sulky after 10 mins or is it only in hand and ridden?
Also in the sulky does he wear blinkers?

 

[laura_nash]

Certainly no bullying involved and this is definitely behavioural, but thank you for your input.

Unless there is some specific trigger to the trouble starting beyond it being after 10 mins, I can't see how it can be behavioural. Horses don't carry stop-watches. Far more likely that something hurts and it gets to the unbearable point after around 10 mins, surely.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

Unless there is some specific trigger to the trouble starting beyond it being after 10 mins, I can't see how it can be behavioural. Horses don't carry stop-watches. Far more likely that something hurts and it gets to the unbearable point after around 10 mins, surely.

Absolutely. I think this part of the OP is possibly important too.

does not play up so much in a sulky as pushed forward.

The whole OP just makes me think of those Sue Dyson videos where horses that don't look lame but are very 'resistant' and 'naughty' are completely transformed with nerve blocks so they no longer hurt.

 

[ycbm]

this is definitely behavioural, but thank you for your input.

I can't see how you can make that assertion.

Has anyone tried taking him 1-5 minutes out, 1-5 minutes back, 1-5 minutes out, 1-5 minutes back, and so on, to test whether it is the time in work or the distance away from home which is the trigger?
.

 

[[142807]]

Firstly I think it’s important that I explain that I’m not a novice owner so the answers are not aimed at a beginner. I am a BHS I so have that level of experience. My problem is that I have recently rescued an ex Trotter with some severe issues. I have had ex trotters before and retrain them to saddle. This one is 14 years of age and in the stable is fine and around the yard is fine. Were I live in the world we do not have fields and large turnout areas so everything is usually done on the roads in a sulky, so no point suggesting turning away as no where to turn away to. The issue with this one is when he’s walked out in hand he is ok for about 10 minutes then he totally loses it. He will rear, spin, be bulshy, shy at everything in sight, try to barge you out the way ect, he is just as bad when ridden, does not play up so much in a sulky as pushed forward.
I am the last chance saloon for this chap but have met my match. Maybe I’m missing something or maybe he’s just a bad apple which I can’t quite get my head around. Like I said 10 minutes out and it starts. Any ideas? Just to clarify vet has checked him out, tack fits ect. This is a behavioural issue.

Hi, is he the same in the sulky after 10 mins or is it only in hand and ridden?
Also in the sulky does he wear blinkers?

 

[[142807]]

Hi, no blinkers worn in the sulky, he raced for 12 years then retired, Premier racer. Very excitable when he used to go out for practice runs in the sulky but no behaviour issues like he does now.

I think I’ve posted this in the wrong place as trot racing horses are kept very differently abroad compared to leisure horses in the U.K.

 

[Tiddlypom]

They are still horses, though ?‍.

If he's raced for 12 years, he's probably got a fair bit of wear and tear.

 

[[142807]]

They are still horses, though ?‍.

If he's raced for 12 years, he's probably got a fair bit of wear and tear.

He has a few bumps but to be fair in very good shape. Thanks for your comments.

 

[[142807]]

Thank you for all your replies , the owner has decided to turn away for 6 months and reassess after this time.

No more comments necessary.

 

[ycbm]

Hi, no blinkers worn in the sulky, he raced for 12 years then retired, Premier racer. Very excitable when he used to go out for practice runs in the sulky but no behaviour issues like he does now.

I think I’ve posted this in the wrong place as trot racing horses are kept very differently abroad compared to leisure horses in the U.K.

We have plenty of trotters in this country, my latest acquisition was pulling a trap two weeks ago.

 

[Midlifecrisis]

I’ve just read this thread and I think the OP has been rather rude and dismissive of legitimately asked questions and advice offered from other experienced posters.

 

[Elno]

I'm not an experienced trainer, so you can take this advice or just ignore it if you like, but I'm well familiar with trotters since in my country trotters are more popular than thoroughbreds, and it is very common to retrain a trotter to a riding horse after its trotting days have ended. I have several friends who had and currently have trotters, one who actually owns and competes several of them successfully, and myself have also owned one before. The most common problems with them are a bad/weak canter and the fact that they are stressy hot heads in general.

Have you tried to plug it's ears? Here at least it's very common to stick cotton in their ears to block out sound both in training and competition, and once they've gotten used to it it can be hard to retrain them to suddently going without.

 

[[142807]]

I'm not an experienced trainer, so you can take this advice or just ignore it if you like, but I'm well familiar with trotters since in my country trotters are more popular than thoroughbreds, and it is very common to retrain a trotter to a riding horse after its trotting days have ended. I have several friends who had and currently have trotters, one who actually owns and competes several of them successfully, and myself have also owned one before. The most common problems with them are a bad/weak canter and the fact that they are stressy hot heads in general.

Have you tried to plug it's ears? Here at least it's very common to stick cotton in their ears to block out sound both in training and competition, and once they've gotten used to it it can be hard to retrain them to suddently going without.

Thank you very much for that advice. Yes he always had plugs in his ears whilst racing, I had totally forgotten about that and he was taken out today without plugs and he played up after 10 mins. That would explain why he is ok in a sulky and not when hand walked as didn’t use plugs walking in hand. Will defo try this and thank you for bringing this up.

 

[[142807]]

I’ve just read this thread and I think the OP has been rather rude and dismissive of legitimately asked questions and advice offered from other experienced posters.

Where have I been rude? I’ve thanked everyone for their comments and I’ve also put my opinion forward where necessary. I’m not currently in the U.K. so maybe comments lost in translation but certainly not rude.

 

[[142807]]

We have plenty of trotters in this country, my latest acquisition was pulling a trap two weeks ago.

I’m sure you have but not 95% I’m sure. Trot racing is the national sport where I am so they are more experienced with Standardbreds here. No rudeness implied just a fact this is why I have perhaps posted on the wrong site.

 

[[142807]]

Once again thank you for all your replies

 

[ycbm]

I’m sure you have but not 95% I’m sure. Trot racing is the national sport where I am so they are more experienced with Standardbreds here. No rudeness implied just a fact this is why I have perhaps posted on the wrong site.

Seriously, there is nothing special in the UK or Ireland about taking a horse trained to race pulling a sulky to do another job. I own three horses. One is bred from an imported Swedish standardbred. One was pulling a tubular steel trap preparatory to road racing 14 days ago.

Nor about a horse which does 10 minutes work and throws in the towel.

Horses are horses.
.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Sweden ?

 

[mariew]

I don't know enough about re training to comment on what to do but I am guessing it would be the equivalent of trying to re train a race horse that had a near 10 year racing career. I'm guessing some you can find a new job for, some you can't. Some of the Swedish trotters I knew from when I was young were very hot and quite hard to handle and you need brave pants on to ride and a love for trotting at warp speed lol. I hope 6 months off will do him good.

 

[Nt9]

Some ex racehorses and trotters I have experienced can be quite institutionalised if they have been racing for a long time and find anything outside the framework they are used to quite stressful because to them everything is new/different/worrying, even to the point of a change in surface. Time, repetition and patience just much more than usual and lots of reassurance. Ear plugs also makes sense if he is used to them, it must be quite overwhelming without.