Advise on rude horse??

[Jesstiggs]

Im looking for some advise on how to deal with my gelding, I have owned him for around a year and a half...he is 7 years old.

The problem is, he has always been abit rude and bloshy with me, which i have manged to deal with most of, but now this winter I have a problem when i put his rugs on, he is fine for me to do the chest straps and underbelly straps but when i do the legs straps, he turns his bum right into me...I have manged to deal with this by sticking my elbow out at his leg and as soon as he hits this he backs away...but tonight he actually kicked out at me.

I would just like some advise on how to deal with this before i get hurt..

Hoping someone can help
x

 

[noodle_]

tie him up - if he kicks you fwiw do the same back/use a crop/good smack and use the word no.

When i first bought my 4 year old she kicked me accross the yard, i smacked her bum (not even hard)! she never kicked again as she was so shocked.... she dosent get smacked often but she knows when she gets one shes gone way to farr.

i dont like smacking my horse - but i do when its necessary - they can do us far more damage....

 

[Foxhunter49]

I agree that the moment he turns his backside to you then you go into attack mode.
Take something heavy into the stable, like a pitchfork and whack him, with the handle, really, really hard on his backside with it two or three times. This will not hurt him on top of his rug but it makes a lovely thwacking noise and will let him know that you mean business.

 

[Fellewell]

Have you checked that the straps are comfortable? Are there any signs of rubbing?

 

[TigerTail]

Jesus the two replies on here are prehistoric If and when the OP gets kicked I hope you two are happy to be liable!

I would be desensitising him to have ropes around his legs and being used to being handled and touched everywhere without a massive over reaction.

I hate rugs with leg straps, theyre accidents waiting to happen tbh.

 

[opinionuk]

Some of the comments about 'hitting' the horse aren't acceptable, I also had a bolshy mare who took the mick for the first 6 months that I had her, I spent time on the ground working with her, long reining and generally trying to get a rapport with her. I used a Dually headcollar to install manners with her, I also spent a long time getting her to trust me and getting a bond, she still has her moments she is tied up in her stable to be groomed, rugged and dealt with, I never muck her out in the stable.

Under no cicumstances is violence the answer, this will turn the whole situation in to a battle where there will be no winner.

 

[opinionuk]

I agree that the moment he turns his backside to you then you go into attack mode.
Take something heavy into the stable, like a pitchfork and whack him, with the handle, really, really hard on his backside with it two or three times. This will not hurt him on top of his rug but it makes a lovely thwacking noise and will let him know that you mean business.

This response is unbelieveable violence is not the answer!!

 

[only_me]

Lol I was wondering when the opinions would change

Time is a great thing - but spending days desensitising horse is not going to prevent horse from kicking out atm at OP.

I would suggest taking the leg straps off and putting a fillet string on to remove the risk.

A loud "no" or a thump on the rear when he does this should be enough for him to realise that this isn't on and you are in control. Lets face it, a thump on his rear is going to hurt him far less than a kick will on you!!
However, it does depend on how your horse reacts to a thump - if it makes him crosser then I would advise against doing that and just using your voice instead. Positive reinforcement in this case is very hard to do - unless you give him a pat or reasurring voice everytime he stands still to have the leg straps on which is quite difficult imo.

And for those that think I am barbaric, I don't hit my horse if possible as he is such a sensitive sod that he gets all stroppy and upset when I tell him off let alone tap him with the stick - however he has good ground manners so never needed to. But he is of a size that if he did start to misbehave on the ground, he could cause some real harm/damage so anything that starts is nipped in the bud early on.

 

[niagaraduval]

Fly swatters are the best They make a really loud noise as they swipe the rug and do not hurt at all.

 

[TigerTail]

So how is the OP to know if her horse is sensitive or frightened of being hit? Or to the loud noise on his rug? Without doing it and praying she doesnt get double barrelled through the stable wall!?

It doesnt take days to desensitise to something if you know what you're doing and do it right. You simply use a long rope and start by gently flapping it all over the horse. When he stands still you reward by taking it away. Whilst hes moving you keep going. Make sure as soon as he stands still you remove it not 10 seconds later. You build up to it being there longer.

Then when he's falling asleep as you waft the rope up and down his body you can start gently flicking it around his legs. Id start with fronts as you know hes a bit quick with the backs. Same principle as above. Id then be taking the end of th rope so that i had a loop around the leg and gently see sawing it up and down so its all over his leg without him panicking. Rinse and repeat with all legs.

I did this in 40 mins with my mare. But dont put a timescale on yourself as you just pressurise the situation and the horse knows it.

 

[only_me]

So how is the OP to know if her horse is sensitive or frightened of being hit? Or to the loud noise on his rug? Without doing it and praying she doesnt get double barrelled through the stable wall!?

I knew within 10 minutes of riding my horse that he dosen't like to be told off. In any shape or form! And that translates when on the ground too.

 

[McNally]

Jesus the two replies on here are prehistoric If and when the OP gets kicked I hope you two are happy to be liable!

I would be desensitising him to have ropes around his legs and being used to being handled and touched everywhere without a massive over reaction.

I hate rugs with leg straps, theyre accidents waiting to happen tbh.

I so wish there was a face book style "like" button for this!
My horse is the same, only i get teeth when i do the front.....and tummy straps up!

Can you just remove the leg straps and use a fillet string?

 

[Jesstiggs]

Thanks everyone for taking the time to reply

Although lots of different views on ways to help...a will have to have a think on all the different ways to see what is best.

Regards to the fillet string...this seems to be worse then having the leg straps, the moment l lift the tail ...he turns on me...

the straps are also fine, as he does it with any rug I put him in.

he is also nippy when i do the chest straps up but have learnt to know when this is coming...and a sharp no seems to work for this.

but back to the back legs...I have shouted and screamed and him...and yes he seems to take notice of this...and gives me the hard done by look..but seems to have a memory of a goldfish and does it again 5 seconds later.

I have also given him a slap on the bum...as some times it has come at such a shock it was an instant reaction and it doesnt bother him


Just to note...i do think this is a behavioural thing, as there are days where he is as good as gold and doesnt even notice im there...and other days we have this problem

Thank again
x

 

[Tuffles 23]

Hi my little mare is funny about her rugs (she hates them) we have teeth snaping and tail swishing and at times the back leg will come up but i would never hit her as its not me she has a problem with its her rug
I would take off the leg straps and use a fillet string .

 

[TigerTail]

Now you are saying he bites at the front straps being done up this is sounding more and more like displacement behaviour - where the horse does something defensive because its unhappy about what is being done to it, and because his flight option has been taken away the only thing he's got left is fight.

Does his rug fit well? Is he too hot in it (remember it is very mild winter)? Does he itch a lot? Does he object to girth being done up?

 

[Jesstiggs]

Hi Tigertail

yes he does nip with the front straps being done, but again not everytime, sorry I didnt mention that earlier

yes his rugs, all fit fine, he is only in a lightweight, so dont think he is over heating, (he is never sweating or anything)

Nope he doesnt itch alot, he did itch his mane and tail in the summer, but that has stopped now the weather is chilled

Yes he does object to his girth being done up, but if i take it slowly with him, i.e rubbing the girth and letting him know what i am doing, I wait for him to be happy with the situation and do it up one strap at a time...slowly, he is then fine with it..

if you have any other questions that could help...please do ask
x

 

[MagicMelon]

As others have said, I'm also quite surprised by the "smack him really hard" comments. Actually that can make an opinionated horse WORSE and really isn't necessary. I've had 2 horses who, when they arrived, were funny around their back legs. They'd lift a leg or try and kick when I went to do up their leg straps or even just brush round them. I got a spikey bristled yard brush, and as soon as they began to lift a leg I'd jab their thigh with it. Not hard, you're not going for pain! But just the feeling of something bristly seems to surprise them enough to not want to do it again very quickly. Do that a few times, and it sorted mine out very quickly with no aggression. Can also try water in a squirty bottle - that can have the same effect. I've used that for a stroppy horse who won't load, its just enough to surprise them with no harm!

 

[wizbit]

I agree that the moment he turns his backside to you then you go into attack mode.
Take something heavy into the stable, like a pitchfork and whack him, with the handle, really, really hard on his backside with it two or three times. This will not hurt him on top of his rug but it makes a lovely thwacking noise and will let him know that you mean business.

I hope you don't own / keep horses...

 

[Jesstiggs]

Thank you magicmelon, I like the sound of those ideas, I will definately give those a try...like I dont really think my horse lashing out me and me doing the same back is the answer...

I believe he just needs to learn a little respect for me

 

[dunkley]

They are animals. You cannot reason with them, and horses are too big to even think they have 'one over' on you. I am not advocating violence, but you need to be as rude as he is, not ruder. Keep in close, that way he has less room to manoeuvre, and a quick dig in the ribs often works, but you need to be very aware of his body language. I have one who can be a complete arse on the ground, and I sometimes get it from both ends when I am doing his rug, even if he is tied up short. If he barges and aims teeth or feet at me, he gets a real wallop, and that reminds him just where he is in the pecking order - below me! He is now well into double figures, and if 'beasting' was going to work, he would have learned his lesson by the time he was five, as I've had him since a four year old. It's just the way he is, and I've learned to manage it. If he forgets his manners enough to get walloped (only need one good one) he is very hangdog, and behaves, absolutely. If your horse were in the field, and kicked/bit another horse 'above' him, he would be firmly put in his place. That is what you need to do. He won't hate you, or be scared of you, he'll respect you.

 

[Frumpoon]

Animals have no concept of being rude...they have not read Debretts...try and speak his language instead....Kelly Marks has a very good and humane book called Perfect Manners, you can get it off Amazon 2nd hand for about £3

 

[Kiristamm]

I believe the answer is to take the "Dominant roll" in the relationship, this does not mean whalloping other animals, but being the "pack/heard" leader. I agree wholeheartedly on the Kelly Marks, Richard Maxwell, Ceasar Millan, Victoria Stilwell ets..principles, they are all very similar.

I have used it successfully with countless horses, dogs, goats, and even rabbits and cats (together). It revolves on high expectations of the animals and keeping to them, making the easier choice for the animal the one you want.

 

[Syrah]

My mare can be rude on the odd occasion. She too is 7 yrs old.

For instance, yesterday I was in her stable grooming her and needed her to move her bum over to give me more space. Now normally I just put my hand on her bum and she knows I want her to move over way from it. Sometimes I need to back it up with a voice command and the very odd occasion she'll ignore both and push against my hand steadfastly refusing to move for no reason at all. A smack on the bum is all it needs to get her to move over and stop me from being squished.

The first 2 posts suggested whacking to make a noise, not to hurt the horse. The OP needs to be her horses leader, not it's best buddy. The horses behaviour is unacceptable, dangerous and needs stopping immediately.

 

[Kiristamm]

I completely agree this behaviour needs to stop mainly through taking a herd leader roll, but tying a horse up to then hit it will create an issue. When it is tied up it can not escape and remove its self from the situation to then think about what has just happened. As previously mentioned by other people what it can do is to encourage a fighting instinct in the horse.

 

[angelish]

hi
not knowing you or your horse as we are all different but if i had a horse in that was doing this sort of thing i would use a controler halter (train him with it so he understands pressure/release) then once he understands that i would put it on in the stable and get him following you about so he is quick to release the presure and go with you

then you have control of the front end and you will be a whole lot safer dealing with the back end, use a long rope on the halter and have it in your left hand with just a feel on the line so you know were he is then go to touch the leg straps

as soon as he reacts (in anyway even just lifting a back leg) give a sharp pull on his head and spin his head to you ,hence the dangerous end goe's away from you so you are less likely to be kicked and make a loud "NO"

when he settles down repeat the same again but don't push your luck (so you can reward him ) if he lets you get slightly further than before stop and make a big fuss of him "good boy"

tbh i would just leave the rug on and work like this for a good few days or even weeks if he's really bad ,you will ruin your hard work if your in a hurry before work in the morning etc

hope that helps a little or gives you some ideas
i'm tiered so some of it might not make any sense but hope you get the idea

 

[JFTDWS]

They are animals. You cannot reason with them, and horses are too big to even think they have 'one over' on you. I am not advocating violence, but you need to be as rude as he is, not ruder. Keep in close, that way he has less room to manoeuvre, and a quick dig in the ribs often works, but you need to be very aware of his body language. I have one who can be a complete arse on the ground, and I sometimes get it from both ends when I am doing his rug, even if he is tied up short. If he barges and aims teeth or feet at me, he gets a real wallop, and that reminds him just where he is in the pecking order - below me! He is now well into double figures, and if 'beasting' was going to work, he would have learned his lesson by the time he was five, as I've had him since a four year old. It's just the way he is, and I've learned to manage it. If he forgets his manners enough to get walloped (only need one good one) he is very hangdog, and behaves, absolutely. If your horse were in the field, and kicked/bit another horse 'above' him, he would be firmly put in his place. That is what you need to do. He won't hate you, or be scared of you, he'll respect you.

Well said, there's a massive difference between aggressively beating a horse and using a physical reprimand or discouragement. Horses communicate in body language and physical contact - a sharp, well timed response will do more good than any amout of shouting, telling off or (dare I say it) fannying around.

However, does he lift his tail naturally, when he's in the field / tarting about / will he let you lift it other than putting rugs on? A very tight dock can indicate back pain, which is worth considering. More likely to be behavioural, but...

 

[littlemisslauren]

I can't believe this fuss over a horse getting a smacked bum.
ANY horse turns its backside on me it will get a smack, its bloody rude and the horses I deal with should know better. If they turned their arse on another horse in the field they would be likely to recieve a bite or kick in return, how is me thumping / slapping it on the arse any worse? I have never had to do it more than once, they tend to listen a bit more when they realise they can't walk all over you.

One of the mares i work with is very twitchy around her backend, no physical reason for it, its just how she is. She was very kicky with her leg straps initially. We persevered with putting them on (as removing the leg straps would simply delay dealing with the problem....) and yes she got a smack if she directed a leg at us. She is fine now.

The horses I work with are handled by novices regularly, they have to be as respectful as possible. And there is no way in hell I am going to allow a horse to kick me for no reason other than being in a strop.

I am not agressive with horses at all. I work with 20 every day and can go weeks without having to give anything a tap, before I am accused of being cruel too.

 

[Roasted Chestnuts]

I try to be nice and the moment they take advantage they get put in their place by hook or by crook, they are upwards of 400kgs more than what we weight and will use it to their advantage IF they think they can. We CANNOT hurt them anymore with our hands or feet than they would hurt each other!!

Me whacking mines with a crop is NO WAY NEAR another horse giving it a boot for trying to get above themselves.

OP if your horse is being bolshy it means that he thinks he is above you and that he can get away with it. I have had a 2 month argument with baby coblet as she goes over or through you, she now moves back with me using my voice and palm flat up and shes had to have a fair few doings before that got into her head that I wasnt taking it.

Watching her in the field the two geldings both give her teeth and feet should she try and barge them for food and they certainly arent half hearted about it.

 

[indie999]

Firstly make sure you wear a hat and perhaps have someone round.

Can see pros and cons in all advice here but I think kicking at you is an unacceptable dangerous situation and a habit that you do not want to repeat.. obvious statement.

I dont know your horse and it sounds like he is trying to dominate you. I agree he needs to know that you can go all round him front and back and its going to be a nice experience..I mean none of us want to end up arguing with monster weight.

As I say gut instinct for me here re pain check re the straps or tickling him etc but otherwise I agree with the growl NO etc and I would certainly give it a whack in some shape or form just like its mother would nip it, elbow in side etc but you might not have time and tell it off (shove a whip down your boot). But you will have to judge your horse to that, ie if he is being totally nasty which sounds like he isnt.
Make sure you spend plenty of time on the ground with him in future, do a bit more bringing him in again for short periods grooming any handling etc. Do the rug swiftly without fuss.
I do totally agree making it pleasurable to be with humans even if it means tying up with a hay net etc to get a safe result. But I do agree with a good whack if he is taking the p...s.

Its called respect. Nip in bud. I think you will be fine. But please wear your hat etc.

 

[indie999]

I can't believe this fuss over a horse getting a smacked bum.
ANY horse turns its backside on me it will get a smack, its bloody rude and the horses I deal with should know better. If they turned their arse on another horse in the field they would be likely to recieve a bite or kick in return, how is me thumping / slapping it on the arse any worse? I have never had to do it more than once, they tend to listen a bit more when they realise they can't walk all over you.

One of the mares i work with is very twitchy around her backend, no physical reason for it, its just how she is. She was very kicky with her leg straps initially. We persevered with putting them on (as removing the leg straps would simply delay dealing with the problem....) and yes she got a smack if she directed a leg at us. She is fine now.

The horses I work with are handled by novices regularly, they have to be as respectful as possible. And there is no way in hell I am going to allow a horse to kick me for no reason other than being in a strop.

I am not agressive with horses at all. I work with 20 every day and can go weeks without having to give anything a tap, before I am accused of being cruel too.

Absolutely agree with this.