Advise on wormers please......Equest... slightly worried

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juliag

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Hi there,
After losing my beloved little mare Alice on sunday due to old age (she collapsed in the field and couldnt get up, I had her pts), I had a vet out today to vaccinate (flu and tet) all of my ponies and do a quick health check. One of them, Harvey had been a bit quiet, lethargic almost depressed so I also wanted her to have a look at him and tell me what she thought. I was up front with her, the vaccs had lapsed and needed redoing. My paddocks are poo picked daily and I have never felt the need to worm for the sake of worming. First the vet did the vaccs and checked 3 of the ponies, did a quick health check. they were all fit and well. Harvey she couldnt find anything wrong on examination and he seemed perky enough but I told her I still wasnt really happy and knowing him well he just wasnt 'right'. I asked her to do a blood test. She didnt vaccinate Harvey as he possibly wasnt 100% well.
The blood test has confirmed he has an infection and I am picking up antibiotics and aloe vera gel tomorrow to put in his feed, ringing her back on friday with a progress report.
My concerns are she has recommended I worm Harvey with Equest tomorrow and the other 3 ponies with Equimax. Now they all look well etc it was just I told the vet I wanted to get the ponies all up together. I have been reading posts about Equest causing colic and poss death. Is it ok to worm him with something so strong when he is having antibiotics as well? It seems a bit odd to me to put so much into his system. Can anyone recommend something other than Equest.
Thankyou
 
You should be ok with Equest - it's Equest Pramox that is a bit dodgy. You say you poo pick so perhaps you could have a worm count done to save unnecessary chemicals in their bodies if not needed ( does that make sense?)
 
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Firstly. It's is Not aloe Vera gel that goes in feed it is liquid. Gel is for skin
Your are right I Personally would never worm with equest when horses have not been wormed for a long time.
Getting a worm count is an idea but it will not tell you about tape worm or incysted
 
Thanks for the replies. picked up the antibiotics and aloe vera gel this morning and so have started treating Harvey. It does actually say aloe vera gel on the bottle but it does pour out like a liquid but he seems quite happy to still eat his food with both the gel and the antibiotics in it so all is good. To be honest I think the vet thought I was bonkers yesterday when I was telling her he wasnt right, but after the blood test I was proved right, so trust your insticts... you know your horses even if they look well to everyone else! :) As far as the wormer goes I am going to wait for another week anyway as he was wormed last week with a mole valley wormer so feel it isnt going to be too detrimental for him to wait another weel before he is done again.
 
soulfull said:
Firstly. It's is Not aloe Vera gel that goes in feed it is liquid. Gel is for skin
Your are right I Personally would never worm with equest when horses have not been wormed for a long time.
Getting a worm count is an idea but it will not tell you about tape worm or incysted
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Just checked this out as I thought maybe my vet had gone bananas but sorry you are wrong, ;)


Telephone: +44 (0) 8701 999 585 Email: info@AloeVeraForHorses.com

ALOE VERA FOR HORSES , CATS AND DOGS
Owners want their animals in the best possible health for as long as possible, and Aloe Vera has become very popular in recent years. Always keep a supply of Aloe Vera products in your first aid kit to provide the best for your pets in times of illness and health



INTERNALLY
Aloe Vera gel added to the food can provide lots of vitamins and minerals essential for your pets’ health. Some cats need it added very slowly, but once eating they take it very well. It is being taken by many people suffering with digestive problems such as colitis and IBS, and appears to benefit animals in the same way.

ARTHRITIS AND JOINTS
An Aloe Vera gel that contains glucosamine, chondroitin and MSM can help with mobility problems such as arthritis, or provide good nutrition to help manage or possibly avoid joint related issues.

SKIN
Feeding Aloe Vera gel, nutrition from the inside, seems to result in good quality skin and hair. For minor irritations of the skin, stings, bites and urtacaria, use an Aloe Vera spray, and Aloe Vera gelly to soothe the sore areas.
 
juliag said:
Thanks for the replies. picked up the antibiotics and aloe vera gel this morning and so have started treating Harvey. It does actually say aloe vera gel on the bottle but it does pour out like a liquid but he seems quite happy to still eat his food with both the gel and the antibiotics in it so all is good. To be honest I think the vet thought I was bonkers yesterday when I was telling her he wasnt right, but after the blood test I was proved right, so trust your insticts... you know your horses even if they look well to everyone else! :) As far as the wormer goes I am going to wait for another week anyway as he was wormed last week with a mole valley wormer so feel it isnt going to be too detrimental for him to wait another weel before he is done again.
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if he was wormed last week with presumably ivermectin why do you need to worm again so soon? Why not worm count in a couple of weeks to see if the mole vally wormer was effective? It is was then you could wait for another month being doing the encysted.
I used equest (not pramox) and ended up with colic half an hour later.
 
juliag said:
Just checked this out as I thought maybe my vet had gone bananas but sorry you are wrong, ;)


Telephone: +44 (0) 8701 999 585 Email: info@AloeVeraForHorses.com

ALOE VERA FOR HORSES , CATS AND DOGS
Owners want their animals in the best possible health for as long as possible, and Aloe Vera has become very popular in recent years. Always keep a supply of Aloe Vera products in your first aid kit to provide the best for your pets in times of illness and health



INTERNALLY
Aloe Vera gel added to the food can provide lots of vitamins and minerals essential for your pets’ health. Some cats need it added very slowly, but once eating they take it very well. It is being taken by many people suffering with digestive problems such as colitis and IBS, and appears to benefit animals in the same way.

ARTHRITIS AND JOINTS
An Aloe Vera gel that contains glucosamine, chondroitin and MSM can help with mobility problems such as arthritis, or provide good nutrition to help manage or possibly avoid joint related issues.

SKIN
Feeding Aloe Vera gel, nutrition from the inside, seems to result in good quality skin and hair. For minor irritations of the skin, stings, bites and urtacaria, use an Aloe Vera spray, and Aloe Vera gelly to soothe the sore areas.
Click to expand...


Thanks for the correction. never heard of gel to feed, but then I tend to just buy human stuff :)
 
Well just to be completely contradictory I used equest pramox on my mare in March and October this year and normal equest in between.

Both worm counts came back fine, and no horrid side effects at all.

Might be a bit different though if a horse actually has them, I've no idea.
 
heidiharvsnroo said:
Well just to be completely contradictory I used equest pramox on my mare in March and October this year and normal equest in between.

Both worm counts came back fine, and no horrid side effects at all.

Might be a bit different though if a horse actually has them, I've no idea.
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VERY VERY different if horse not wormed regularly They are very quick and abrupt and have been known to cause problems by clearing out worm burden too quickly, whereas five day is more gentle and much slower so no colic problems
 
paddy555 said:
if he was wormed last week with presumably ivermectin why do you need to worm again so soon? Why not worm count in a couple of weeks to see if the mole vally wormer was effective? It is was then you could wait for another month being doing the encysted.
I used equest (not pramox) and ended up with colic half an hour later.
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She hasn't wormed the horses with ivermectin! He hasn't been wormed for awhile
 
Xmas In The Sun said:
She hasn't wormed the horses with ivermectin! He hasn't been wormed for awhile
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Sorry, I prob havent been very clear, He was wormed last with with a mole valleys own wormer. The vet initially said that was fine and would be enough but then 5 mins later changed her mind and suggested the Equest. I have actually decided to wait for another fortnight and then worm him again but not use equest as its not worth the risk. Thankyou for all your replies. He has really perked up this morning. I put him out in the field in the sunshine after he had his breakfast with the antibiotics and he did a huge buck, broke wind and galloped off across the field towards the mares paddock where my little mare ,dream (the floosie!) was waiting by the fence to tell him how much she loved him. so I guess he is on the mend now! :)
 
just to add to the above until last week he hadnt been wormed regulally. I wormed him last week as he seemed a bit down, lethargic etc. The vet didnt think there was anything wrong with him as he was perky enough when she was there but I asked her to blood test and the results came back that he had a virus, hence the antibiotics :)
 
alsiola said:
That depends whether you think that promoting resistance to a very valuable worming drug is a horrid side effect or not.
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Alsiola please can you elaborate? My livery yard routinely worms (its contractual) with equest twice a year and pramox once/twice a year. Is this going to promote resistance?

Thank you
 
alsiola said:
If he has a virus then why treatment with anti-bacterials?
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Pass but I am not the vet :):), The amount of money that blood test cost £35 examination.... £35 to take the bloods.... and £60 to test the blood, and that was just the start!!! The aloe vera and antibiotics took the cost for looking at him for about 3 mins to £190!! :eek:
Although he is looking much perkier now so all is good! However the examination for £35 consisted of her listening to his heart and lungs, checking his eyes and telling me he seemed fine. As I said this took all of 3 mins, it was me that said he wasnt right and I wanted a blood test done. I think she thought I was mad. lol

I wish I had concentrated more at school, then I could have been a vet and printed my own money too :D
 
Antibacterials don't kill viruses. They do however help/treat secondary bacterial infections, perhaps that is what you vet is treating juliag.

I'm guessing alsiola is talking about continuing to worm regularly with successive clear worm counts...
 
LucyPriory said:
Alsiola please can you elaborate? My livery yard routinely worms (its contractual) with equest twice a year and pramox once/twice a year. Is this going to promote resistance?

Thank you
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just out of curiosity why doesn't your yard worm count and worm as required? I thought that was what most vets were promoting now. Places like Westgate do commercial rates so it could work out cheaper and more effective.
 
paddy555 said:
just out of curiosity why doesn't your yard worm count and worm as required? I thought that was what most vets were promoting now. Places like Westgate do commercial rates so it could work out cheaper and more effective.
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You and me too, but livery yards do have to manage owners who can be inconsistent with their horse management so I guess they find this easiest.

Although worm counting won't show encysted or tape and can be unreliable - there are better ways than just worming everything the same regardless.
 
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heidiharvsnroo said:
If it was "promoting " resistance then surely her worm counts would have shown something up?
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Worm egg counts are far from an exact science; horses can have have different results on different days, or even from different balls within the same pile of droppings. So no, egg counts would not necessarily show something up.

Even if your horse does not develop any resistant worms, it is an undeniable fact of evolution that this style of worming will promote resistance. The more people who worm in this way the more likely resistance is to develop. No one wants to see this happen.

I'm not being judgemental - this type of worming program is, sadly, still recommended by some vets and some wormer manufacturers - but it is important that people are aware of the potential dangers, whether they are in 10 days, 10 months or 10 years time.
 
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