Advise please? Mare will not behave for the Farrier

Stacey_lou, it's all very good looking at feeds, supplements etc, it's all important, but I think first and foremost you need to have the possible pain issues investigated, otherwise you could spend next God knows how long and God knows how much on different bags of feed and pots of stuff without any improvement whatsoever.
 
Farrierlover said:
That's right- nutritionists purposfully put all that starch and sugar in feed so that ponies BEG their mums and dads to take them to the feed store and DEMAND that it be fed to them. Just like a woman I knew who fed her horse doughnuts because "he likes them"..... And how exactly she knew this?
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We humanise our horses - so when we see our horses tucking eagerly into those high sugar/starch feeds we feel happy because the horse is clearly loving the feed - and of course they do, horses have sweet toothes just like we do. How many people give their horses Likits and enjoy seeing them eat them quickly? Likits are 80% sugar btw.

Starch is not bad for horses
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So why don't you feed it to laminitics?
 
stacey_lou said:
Ive had a look and my fast fibre is 5% and ride and relax is 15% starch I think thats ok. Right? My friend who works there was very sure this was the right feed for me.
Looking at hoof supplements at the moment to help her feet.
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Fast Fibre is a safe feed. Ride and Relax at 15% starch is higher than anything I'd feed to my horses (they're barefoot competition horses) but not as bad as many other feeds on the market.

The only hoof supplement I feed is magnesium - I'd highly recommend you adding that to your horse's feed as it will improve the condition of her feet.
 
I have my physio coming back out but cant come for another 3 weeks, Ill have her concentrate more on her farfore to see if she can find anything wrong, last time (admintly 4 months agao) she couldnt find any wrong and she was playing up long before this.

For the mean time Allen and Page have assured me the feed I am hasd the right amount of vitamins ect in it to keep her hooves healthy and said to help harden her feet as to not get stones stuck in them or her get food sore to use iodine and im looking into keratex hoof hardener as suggested although i think ill try the keratex hoof hardener first and see how we get on.

The thing is shes not lame and jumps very well. Maybe next step after the physio (should there be nothing wrong) would be to ask the farrier back and if still issues then ill look into other routes. I will get to the bottom of this and rest assured I wouldnt want to see my horse in pain or stressed and she does receive the best care, my friend thinks im constantly parranoyed
 
stacey_lou said:
I have my physio coming back out but cant come for another 3 weeks, Ill have her concentrate more on her farfore to see if she can find anything wrong, last time (admintly 4 months agao) she couldnt find any wrong and she was playing up long before this.

For the mean time Allen and Page have assured me the feed I am hasd the right amount of vitamins ect in it to keep her hooves healthy and said to help harden her feet as to not get stones stuck in them or her get food sore to use iodine and im looking into keratex hoof hardener as suggested although i think ill try the keratex hoof hardener first and see how we get on.

The thing is shes not lame and jumps very well. Maybe next step after the physio (should there be nothing wrong) would be to ask the farrier back and if still issues then ill look into other routes. I will get to the bottom of this and rest assured I wouldnt want to see my horse in pain or stressed and she does receive the best care, my friend thinks im constantly parranoyed
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Physio is good, as is the farrier, but how about an unconventional;) idea of having a vet look at her?:)
 
Having the vet is true but my physio is due back anyway to look at her back for a check up and deals with all her joints (she is very good) so I may as well ask her to look as she is coming anyway
 
Went through exactly this with our ex pointer. I am still in touch with lady we sold him to locally as happy hacker. He had major issues, almost put farrier off ever doing him again!!

Oddly, if you did him in middle of field with his mates he was fine, it was the coming in " to be done" that wound him up.

When it was too cold and wet to do that we used sedalin way before we needed to.

If that fails, well worth sedation a couple of times to see if you can get some indirect confidence into his brain somewhere!!!
 
PS. on the sedalin issue, it wont touch them if they are stressed before they take it. THey MUST be kept quiet and calm for it to have any affect.

IF they get stressy, then there is no point trying to give it, it just wont work....hence need to book mid morning appointment and quietly put it in their morning feed, no change to routine etc.....
 
Farrierlover said:
keratex hoof hardener, this stuff is awesome! If you are looking for something to harden up your horse's feet while waiting for your regular farrier, then try it.
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Keratex hoof hardener is 8% formaldehyde, a very strong and drying chemical, and not much else but water. It's the stuff doctors use to preserve organs in, and Damian Hirst pickles cows in. You might as well buy half a litre of 32% formaldehyde sheep foot dip from a farmer for pence and water it down by three, it's a fraction of the price done that way. It has the same effect.

Personally, I wouldn't touch it. If your horse is ouchy on stones it's because the sole is not naturally thick enough or hard enough to withstand them. The answer to this is to change the diet and keep the horse to surfaces that it is comfortable on while its feet firm up. Masking the issues with a temporarily harder (and less breathable) surface layer created by a corrosive chemical is not a good solution for a barefoot horse.

Do be aware though that "change the diet", might in some horses mean very careful management of grass intake. Thin and flexible soles are very often indicative of long term low grade laminitis, insulin resistance, or EPSM issues.
 
Sorry, I haven't read any of the other replies - naughty I know!

My mare has a slightly twisted front leg - her knee is not straight and it goes wonky from there down (should have been corrected as a foal!). She too is a bit difficult for the farrier as she doesn't like this leg to be picked up and held out from her. She gets particularly impatient and a bit of a pain to be honest.

My farrier - who I have had for donkeys years got very fed up with her and one day I really thought he was going to lose his temper.

I changed farrier (my God I felt so guilty) but the new one is so patient and bloody good too, and doesn't get in a sweat when she starts to fidget and get stroppy. In fact now he will shoe her on his own when I am not there.

I have tried the instant calmers on her for travelling but have found that the adrenaline overrides them and they have no effect - the only thing that works is sedaline.

I also make sure she has a large haynet tied up when she is being is shod and if she is particularly bad I hold a bucket of food which seems to keep her quiet. If the worst comes to the worst I have pinched her nose to keep her still just to get the nails in and rasp them off but not actually twitched her as such.

Good luck, I am sure if you find the right blacksmith and take it steady she will come good in the end.
 
I think this thread is longer than it needs to be.

If I were the OP I would simply work with my vet and farrier to see if my horse could work barefoot, and if their feet could be improved at all by diet, different trimming or products. From what I can see the OP mainly works their horse on a surface, which is supposed to be the least upsetting surface for a horse to cope with barefoot. For those times the OP works on a different surface such as a stone track or road, I would urge them to try hoof boots.

Sedating and controlling the horse to have a shoe put on is addressing the symptom, not the cause IMO.
 
martlin said:
Stacey_lou, it's all very good looking at feeds, supplements etc, it's all important, but I think first and foremost you need to have the possible pain issues investigated, otherwise you could spend next God knows how long and God knows how much on different bags of feed and pots of stuff without any improvement whatsoever.
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I have to agree with this. I would not only investigate the right fore which she appears to object to having nails put in but also the left fore in case the problem is standing with her weight on that, I have had a similar problem with a TBx mare that we knew had a joint problem. It could also be that she struggles to stand unbalanced on her hind feet, so it could be worth getting a vet to check her.
 
Naturally said:
Sedating and controlling the horse to have a shoe put on is addressing the symptom, not the cause IMO.
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I agree whole heartedly.

If someone posts a thread on here saying their horse has started bucking, or napping, the first thing other people say is have you checked the saddle fits, had their back and teeth checked as you need to eliminate pain as the cause of the misbehaviour first. But when someone posts about a horse protesting at having things done with their feet many people seem to think the answer is to sedate it, rather than investigate a pain as a cause. Why the different approach? Why are feet any less likely to be causing pain that back/teeth or an ill fitting saddle?
 
I havnt read everyones replies but imo you need to do two things-

1) Thoroughly investigate for pain- will she not stand because she cant stand and finds it uncomfortable? Some horses just need their feet held lower due to stiffness/discomfort higher up. Also, some horses find the nailing on uncomfortable due to arthritis, navicular or other problem. The horse may even be sound but only show up a problem when being shod- i have had a horse like this.

2) Train her! You need to practice everyday, picking her feet up and progressing to holding her leg out/higher, etc. Some horses just find it hard to balance too. Make sure your farrier (and you) arent asking her to stand on 3 legs when she actually cant. Stand her up properly before you pick one leg up. Practise banging the feet with a hammer, obviously gently at first- even start with a hoof pick.

Her problems with the farrier will be solved by one or both of these
 
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