Advise please on difficult loader

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Kirico my spanish pony has got his last show of the season next sat at Romsey, i dont drive and have to hire a transporter so we dont get out as much as we'd lke, and as such can have problems when loadng him.
To be fair he had a bit of a bad experience a while back with a ramp, but now just takes the pee and plants himself. Fortunatly this is usually overcome with the help of 2 strong people on each side with lunge lines round his bum, as once he realises theres no where to go he reluctantly plods on and then travels perfectly fine. My problem is for Romsey i may not have a third person, it will just be me and transport lady- so was wondering is it do-able using a single lunge line instead of 2? And also how easy would it be keeping him straight with just me behind, im not that experienced and thing is once Kirico finds a weakness he exploits it and we'll have no chance whatsoever, and we've actually been getting better last couple of shows so last thing i want is us to go backwards again.
Any advice greatly appreciated, although more so from my boyfriend as if its too hard he'll be getting up at 5am on his day off to help us:D:D:D
 
I think the key is deciding if the horse is genuinely scared of loading, or just being stubborn. I load with a bit in. I just have a bit, no bridle. Clip one end of a lunge line to one ring, over the head, and run through the other ring. It just seems to make them focus more. I also have a lunge whip in the other hand, and give a couple of flicks behind as Im leading to the box. Making sure they have a real purposeful walk. Stay at the shoulder as you walk them. If there is the slightest hesitation as you approch the box, give a quick flick behind.

If they stop, or move away from the ramp, let some length of the lunge line slip through your hand and lunge for a few circles. Then quickly gather the line, and try again while they have forward momentum.

The key is really keeping forward momentum by driving them from behind. Trying to drag them in never works.

I have had difficult loaders and always prefer to load alone. Good luck
 
Just a thought, how does he travel?? If he isn't happy travelling then he will be difficult to load. Some horses need lots of space to balance and when I took out the partition in the trailer, the horse immediately became happier to load as it had enough space to be confined travelling. Also, check the ramp is solid, if it is a bit insecure then that may make the horse nervous about going up it!

Other than that, I just bore my horse into loading, we calmly walk round and back up and then present her to the trailer. She knows that if she wants to stand still she has to get on the trailer, other than that we just keep moving, forward - back - sideways!! Best to practise at home first though, until the horse gets the idea that this is a game you always win!!
 
http://www.shiresequestrian.co.uk/shop/product.php?productid=452&cat=666&page=1

These headcollars are brilliant. You attach the lead rope to the control slip and it prevents the horse from stopping, planting, or going backwards through pressure behind the ears. Mine used to shoot out backwards from the trailer, je only did it once with this on, then never again!! ;)

Practice at home stopping and starting on the flat until they understand that stopping without your say so means pressure. Then do a couple of stop starts before you load him then go for it. They're brilliant, mine now gathers dust as it worked so well. I'd let you have it but I suspect it might come in handy with another horse some day!! :D
 
canteron said:
Other than that, I just bore my horse into loading, we calmly walk round and back up and then present her to the trailer. She knows that if she wants to stand still she has to get on the trailer, other than that we just keep moving, forward - back - sideways!! Best to practise at home first though, until the horse gets the idea that this is a game you always win!!
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My mare used to be a bit tricky to load in that she would get half way up the ramp of the trailer and then reverse, when she done this I used to do as above, if she wanted to reverse down the ramp fine, but she would then also have to reverse another 20ft with me pushing her, quickly got the message that going backwards wasn't good and is now relatively easy to load.
We do have another horse on the yard who used to be a nightmare to load, used to have to allow 2 hours, we eventually started using a chifney bit as at one show he stood on end and then lost his balance and nearly went over backwards on concrete, if it hadn't been the owners husband holding him I'm certain he would have went over instead of 'sitting down', the bit just gives you more control in the event that they do start backing up and being silly.
We struggled for 2 years before using the chifney and i would have to say that any other horse that starts being silly we put the chifney straight on them before they get into a habit.
 
Back to basics. start him on groundwork, working at his shoulder, he needs to be able to work over poles , going down lanes with right angles, reversing in a circles, walk when you walk, halt when you halt.
He needs to walk over mats and tarpaulins, and if you have a wooden ramp that is ideal, first laid on ground, then raised a little.
Now after several weeks of these exercises [a few every day] you can think about loading.
On the day the lorry arrives have him kept quiet, he should be walked out to do his routines and then asked to load, he will only be able to load if he is straight on, so any attempt to slide off to one side and you have to start again.
Personally if you are nervous, I would hand over to the driver, see if he will walk straight on, let him sniff ramp if he wants to but try not to be in a rush. Make sure you have lorry arrive an hour too early!
When you unload, don't forget you have your lorry so you might want to try again several times, provided you are not stressed.
http://www.horsehero.com/5201/63149/36636
 
Some excellent suggestions above to which I'd add leading/groundwork over different surfaces -- plastic sheeting, plywood sheets, unstable plywood sheets, etc.

Maybe you can even mock up tunnels to walk the horse through with some 2"x1" lathes and plastic sheeting if you haven't got a box you can practice on?

Rope head collars are magic for applying "pressure and release". Gentle persistent pressure and instantaneous release when the slightest movement in the desired direction is detected works best. Pain can cause panic with dangerous consequences.

I think of these situations as a choice for the horse. Going in to transport and travelling is not what the horse wants to do, but it will choose to do that if staying outside is uncomfortable and involves work. Any harsh treatment will be associated with loading and simply aggravate the problem.
 
Be cause you're only hiring the transporter the practising thing is sort of out of the question.

My lad is stubborn and will sometime just walk on but most of the time he plants with 2 feet on the ramp and says 'make me' and i'm usually by myself so i park with my box with the drivers side of the box tight to a hedge or fence to cut off that angle and then either get the lunge rein around and pull him up myself (takes 2 minutes we just need to go through the motions) or if i have the luxury of someone else blocking the other side he usually plods on.

I never hit him and he hates any pressure on his poll so it has to be pressure from behind.

Good luck
 
Had all this with my daughters pony, he'd learnt from previous owners if he pulled hard enough they'd let go and he'd could clear off, that knowledge has caused a few problems! Took me, a friend plus two helpers nearly an hour to load him when I picked him up. I brought a control halter and worked with him every day (just on ground without the trailer) to get him to understand pressure and release and that he couldn't get away then when I came to loading him the understanding was there. We would still have a five minute or so "discussion" but he would then give in and the great thing was I never needed anyone else's help, a year on and I can load him in a headcollar goes in straight away if fact I think my 8yr old daughter could probably load him now :)
 
A couple of points you should be clear on.

It's not true that pain causes horses to panic. If that were true, a twitch would not work. Pain actually has the effect of rendering a horse temporarily immobile.

Pressure on the poll will not cause a horse to panic either, unless the pressure is relentless and takes the form of restraint, as in when a person tries to use a pressure halter to hold a horse against his instinct to flee. Some people, in the mistaken belief that there is such a thing as a 'controller halter', make the mistake, when applying pressure to encourage a horse forward, of failing to release the pressure if the horse tries to pull back, and by using the halter as a means to stop the horse getting away. By doing so, they give the horse something to resist, and it's the sensation of being held which will panic the horse. It is restraint which causes panic in horses, and it's because they have not already learned to yield to pressure.

I never knew a horse yet which would not stop resisting the second the pressure was released in such circumstances.

If the pressure is released when the horse which doesn't understand how to yield to pressure pulls away, rather than yielding, the horse will have no need to panic. He will quickly settle and can be asked again to give the correct response to pressure.

I load lots of difficult horses, and many of them have learned a whole repertoire of evasions and adverse reactions to incorrect use of pressure and its release. The essence of loading them successfully is to understand that, although they will try everything they know to avoid loading, as long as I do not use the halter harshly or as a means of restraint, they will have nothing to resist. If you take the potential for resistance out of the equation, the horse quickly learns to yield. A horse which yields willingly, without fear or resistance, is a horse on its way to loading. It just takes time from there.
 
Sorry I forgot to say, after all the ground work walking by his side, you need to do a little work on his attitude, by standing in front of him and asking him to walk towards you by applying pressure then releasing the pressure, also do this from side to side, he must move his front feet, or this is his "plant" when you load, you need to have him trying for you before you even think about a lorry ramp.
 
Thanks for the repleis everyone, unfortuantly as i dont have a lorry i cant practice at home and take him for little stress free mini trips so he gets bored of it, and he travels beautifully once on so i know it isnt that hes worried or scared about. Will look into those control headcollars but i already use a serreta which is sort of a spanish cavesson with metal nosepiece, they use it all the time with youngsters in spain as although it can be harsh in the wrong hands its very effective and preserves their soft mouths. He also respects that and is very good to handle otherwise, i never feel that i cant hold him should he have a spook or leap about, which isnt uncommon with spanish horses!
Will try a few of the things youve mentioned, parking up against a wall is a good idea hadnt thought of that thanks. With regards to manners he really isnt as bad as i think ive made him sound especially considering hes a young stallion, and to be fair is almost perfect to handle in every other way is just very sharp and a bit too clever for his own good (again a spanish thing!) Hopefully we'll be ok though as he only required a little pursuasion with the lunge lines at the last show and was very unstressed all day, so fingers crossed he'll remember it and with enough time all will go smoothly:)
 
we used to have one just like this - dream to travel, nightmare to load! We used just the same method as you and eventually she would load herself :) Good luck loading and at the show!
 
I started a thread last week on my very stubborn loader, who despite usually being very good to load decided a couple of weeks ago he was having none of it. It took 4 of us, 2 lunge lines, box of treats and an hour to get him on. It was one hell of a battle and at no point was he scared, just stubborn. As I want to be able to take him out on my own, I used a friend's rope halter the following week and got him on in 20 minutes. When we were coming home he walked straight up second time. He's not the brightest of sparks but he soon realised that walking backwards and anywhere which wasn't the ramp resulted in pressure. Once he was on he got the biggest round of praise, carrots and pats:rolleyes: Someone reminded me never to treat a stubborn horse who is only halfway on the ramp as they learn they get rewarded for being half on and learn that going backwards and then only halfway on again will get them taaa da another treat!
 
Natwood said:
but i already use a serreta which is sort of a spanish cavesson with metal nosepiece, they use it all the time with youngsters in spain as although it can be harsh in the wrong hands :eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:
Sorry, don't agree with this - I've seen spanish horses with scars across their nose due to these pieces of torture.
It is harsh in any hands, it is harsh - full stop. Sorry
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muff747 said:
Natwood said:
but i already use a serreta which is sort of a spanish cavesson with metal nosepiece, they use it all the time with youngsters in spain as although it can be harsh in the wrong hands :eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:
Sorry, don't agree with this - I've seen spanish horses with scars across their nose due to these pieces of torture.
It is harsh in any hands, it is harsh - full stop. Sorry
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In that case youve seen them used incorrectly and probably the ones with the serrated metal nosepiece, which yes i agree does leave scars and is cruel. They do just come with a plain metal nosepiece however which is what i use on kirico, and is no harsher than an ordinary cavesson as it is well padded and not done up tightly. I can assure you i am not cruel to my horse, have never left so much as a hair out of place on his nose and as he is extremly sensitive he would certainly let me know if it was causing him any discomfort! I suggest you get yours facts straight before commenting and accusing people of cruelty in future
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Sophstar said:
I started a thread last week on my very stubborn loader, who despite usually being very good to load decided a couple of weeks ago he was having none of it. It took 4 of us, 2 lunge lines, box of treats and an hour to get him on. It was one hell of a battle and at no point was he scared, just stubborn. As I want to be able to take him out on my own, I used a friend's rope halter the following week and got him on in 20 minutes. When we were coming home he walked straight up second time. He's not the brightest of sparks but he soon realised that walking backwards and anywhere which wasn't the ramp resulted in pressure. Once he was on he got the biggest round of praise, carrots and pats:rolleyes: Someone reminded me never to treat a stubborn horse who is only halfway on the ramp as they learn they get rewarded for being half on and learn that going backwards and then only halfway on again will get them taaa da another treat!
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You've explained the principles of pressure and release far better than I could! If backing up results in the release of pressure, that's what he is going to do!
 
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