AES Grading - Comments please

Instead of pretending that I have something to do with the AES -- which I haven't -- please can you answer my original query. Where was the glowing report in H&H. I looked it up and couldn;t find anything glowing in it.

I suppose the fierce people picking on the judges is symptomatic of the modern world. If you're not good enough, blame someone else.

I wasn't there, but a friend was. She went to see if she could spot any potential husbands for her mare. One of her remarks was that "the majority of horses seemed to have left their presence on the motorway on the way there".

This was her opinion -- and she should be allowed one surely, even if it doesn't agree with yours?

Another thing she told me that the dressage stallion owners were up in arms about the fact that the horses had to loose jump. No wonder the Europeans laugh at our breeding attempts.

Would you not agree that a potential sport horse stallion should be able to do everything to a decent degree?
So maybe people should be prepared to have failed stallions gelded and take judges' decisions on the chin instead of attacking them about it?
 
Sorry

I didn't spot your post before. As I keep saying, I wasn't at the grading, but I do beleive that a stallion has to have star quality. It's not something you can easily put into words, but it's that certain something that sets them apart from the average horse.

I think they should be show offs (and not in a badly behaved way, I hasten to that). They must. of course be sound .move straight and be able to jump because they should be able to produce horses that could compete in any discipline.

At the end of the day, it's down to the judges and if they don't like your horse I suppose at least one bonus of our fragmented industry is that there are loads of different socieities to try to get him graded with.

While I was trudgung through H&H looking for the AES report i saw the SHB (GB) grading report. That said that they get initial grading and then have to come back for another assessment the following year, which sounds equally tough.
 
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Another thing she told me that the dressage stallion owners were up in arms about the fact that the horses had to loose jump. No wonder the Europeans laugh at our breeding attempts.

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Well said!! I once worked for a German woman in this country, who bred dressage horses. She often used SJ stallions (generally Oldenbergs), as she said that they had to move just as well as a dressage stallion in order to grade. She also wouldn't use a Dressage stallion that didn't have a good jump!

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So maybe people should be prepared to have failed stallions gelded

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Again, very well said!! If only we could do the same for humand
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take judges' decisions on the chin instead of attacking them about it?

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As you have already said, this is unfortunately a part of modern day life and happens in all spheres of equestrianism where the judes word is final. It's something that I think is in some way encouraged by reality TV and the way crowds are encouraged to react to the panel of judes...........
 
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So maybe people should be prepared to have failed stallions gelded

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Again, very well said!! If only we could do the same for humand
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In terms of sports horses (mainly dr and sj as we are quite good at breeding eventers) I really think that if Britain is going to catch up with europe in breeding then we do need to look at what can be bred from. I think that failed stallions should not be bred from and I think there needs to be much tighter restrictions on the mares used - people forget the importance of the mare, they think a good stallion makes up for anything!!
 
'So maybe people should be prepared to have failed stallions gelded'
I would disagree with this as surely not all failed stallions are worthless? Perhaps that judge didn't like them, but another does?
I think it would be a very hard line to take IMO
but then I don't know much about it
 
Ahhh well I took the 'failed stallion' to be a horse who's not producing the goods as a sire, irrespective of his competition record.
 
I am totally in agreement that an ungraded stallion should NOT be used for breeding under any circumstances. However, the grading system in the UK must be better organised and more consistant before this could be implimented in this country.

Of coure, a dressage stallion must be able to jump, and the power that is need to move from walk to canter should be able to carry the stallion over a 1m fence at least. However, dressage AND show jumping judges must be present at a grading.

The three judges at the AES grading were all PURE show jumping, and yes, they graded a dressage stallion who did obvious flashy movements and was easy to spot. However, talented youngsters may well have gone ungraded because there was no dressage experienced judge their.

This is a very useful debate.
 
What an interesting thread
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Can I ask a few very thick questions please? When someone says their horse is 'graded' can they mean by one of several associations? Also, what does AES stand for, what other associations could one grade with (and what makes AES so desireable) and what does it mean if a horse is 'registered', 'approved' and 'licensed'. Thanks
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i was reading up on the AES it seems a lot of horses do not pass is it really that hard to have a horse graded?does your face have to fit to get anywhere?
 
Going to throw a spanner in the works here. I took my 2 1/2 colt to be graded. We are a very young stud and, basically nobodies. I have worked my ........!!! off since this colt was born as I spotted stallion potential. I had always understand that you needed an important "face" to present stallions at these gradings. A reasonably well known "face" presented my stallion and his own stallion failed where my passed. My stallion is by an ungraded Weatherby's stallion (but grandsire is graded) and this is one of the reasons I have worked and prayed that my young colt was good enough to make the grade. You should approach the judges personally at these gradings who will tell you, no holds barred. The judges were not particularly enthused about him at the trot up but he showed himself well through the loose jumping - which was, as mentioned by others, a nightmare for young horses. Fortunately my horse had received some training and is quite bold. He made registered which lets me know he has still got to prove himself. I certainly wasn't given an easy ride. As I said, I am a nobody but have put a huge amount of effort into breeding a quality, British stallion. The grading was no picnic and neither he nor I were granted any favours. Why would they? I feel he won through on his own merit. The AES panel are known to be tough which is why I feel my stud has managed to achieve something. We will work our socks off to present him later as a 4 year old (if he is good enough) and I hope to present another colt by my other stallion next year.
 
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OR

The fact that breeders in this country have little knowledge of conformation and ways to breed good quality horses?


Jamie

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definitely this!!!!!!!
i am always astounded at some of the horses put forward in sport horse classes and etc, with obvious serious conformation faults and owner / breeder oblivious!
ditto horses bought as top 'prospects' that i could take bets on how long they would stay sound.

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AP - when a freind took her horse to be graded she was told to do an FEI dressage test and when we turned up we were told it was freestyle and I was also told that there was no 4yo FEI dressage test - even when I waved a copy of it under his nose!

Glad to see they've improved in the last 2 years.....
 
aside from whether the face fits(which is another rant completely!)
the organisation is dreadful!
i have taken 2 stallions to the aes and 1 to the shbgb and i along with a few other SJs are agreeing this is a much better system with the aes only ever being spoken badly about.

for me the main thing is the lack of organisation, professionalism and just decency!
as someone said earlier after paying that much entry fee and spending alot of time and effort trying to make your horse ready the last thing you want is for people to be rude or as I believe is evry common for the AES no communication at all.

at the shb gb all horses are looked at at conformation, walking and trotting in hand, ridden , ridden jumping and loose movement and jumping(unless under 4 - then just loose). the 2 sections - ridden/loose and conformation/trot up are assessed by 2 different judges on each, totalling 4 judges and they write comments and give marks out of 10 for each part, which you can see when you have finished.

graded or not this gives so much beneficial feedback and lets people know where they stand and exactly what let their stallion down. the judges at shbgb are happy to talk to u and if they know you fairly well then they step down and are not included in the judging! the horses still have to be presesnted 2 years running to be fully graded so it is by no means easier but i highly recommend it to all stallion owners....and would NEVER take another stallion to the aes...

rant over!
 
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